Official Black Panther MCU Thread

[Ziggiy]

@Realdealholy I saw what they are saying on CBR and it seems that they are just as confused as we are regarding the time jump/reset/reboot.

Here is where I am coming from on the matter..

Obviously T'Challa is King again, this is certain. Now the question for a lot of fans isn't whether we WANT T'Challa to be King, it's rather, after the humiliating and disrespectful way Hickman neutered the character, if he DESERVES to be King. The T'Challa we see in Ultimates, is a man worthy of being King (minus the hairline lol) worthy of leading people. He is cool, calm, collected, intelligent, and able to figure out something as complex as solving the "Galactus Problem". How do we, as readers reconcile that with the weak, emasculated, and ultimately beaten character that Hickman wrote for the past 4 or so years?

I believe Coates is aware of this, I believe, if he has read Hickman's run as much studiously as claimed, that he will be using this run, and essentially the rebellion that is promised, to answer a singular question. Why DOES T'Challa deserve to be King? Remember, the enemy that will be faced in this "Season" are a group called The People. We, the readers, the fans, are essentially The People. And we have watched T'Challa become deconstructed down to a crying little boy who couldn't go forward with a plan he essentially helped formulate. Like Mr. Majestik has said before (and yourself as well) would you want someone like THAT to be your King? Would you follow such a man? Would you bleed for him? Would you DIE for him?
And would you forgive him simply because he pushed a button and "went back" to before all of these poorly made decisions occurred? A King doesn't get to "Go Back". A King doesn't get to "reclaim " his throne simply because he pushed a Gem and said "Let It Be So". A King MUST live with his decisions, be they made poorly or wisely, a King MUST be judged on the success or failure of his Kingdom, and if found wanting, a King MUST seek and EARN redemption.

This Arc will be about T'Challa's redemption, both in the eyes of his people and us as readers. T'Challa cannot TRULY be King when there are people who think Shuri would do a better job. We needn't look any further than the end of Secret Wars itself, Doom ADMITTED both to himself and to Reed that his Arch Nemesis would have done a better job as the ruling God. T'Challa will HAVE to come to that realization himself, that Shuri did a better job, when it came to ruling and fiercely PROTECTING Wakanda, and he will have to face the consequences of what his decisions have wrought.

The story is called A NATION Under Our Feet. T'Challa's greatest Foe will be the one he HIMSELF was sworn to protect and serve, Wakanda. He will have to face THE PEOPLE who lost faith in him, THE PEOPLE whom he led to ruin and slaughter, and THE PEOPLE who read all of this in silent disgust. This will be Coates, and by Proxy T'Challa's biggest battle, for the respect and renewed faith of his NATION of readers, whom he will NEED to continue supporting him as a character as he makes his transition to A-list superhero within the Marvel Continuity. If posters like Mr Majestik can BELIEVE in the concept of T'Challa as King again, then the character is redeemed. We wouldn't NEED to have talk or debate the Monarchy ending, because THE PEOPLE will have a King they can trust. The King who saved the Universe from Galactus. The King who defeated his Father's murderer. The King who was once married to one of the world's most powerful individuals. The King who can command a NATION at his feet.



Do me a favor and post this on CBR. I want to know what people think

 

[Birnin Zana]

@Realdealholy I saw what they are saying on CBR and it seems that they are just as confused as we are regarding the time jump/reset/reboot.

Here is where I am coming from on the matter..

Obviously T'Challa is King again, this is certain. Now the question for a lot of fans isn't whether we WANT T'Challa to be King, it's rather, after the humiliating and disrespectful way Hickman neutered the character, if he DESERVES to be King. The T'Challa we see in Ultimates, is a man worthy of being King (minus the hairline lol) worthy of leading people.

Oh shyt LOL

But you brought up a great point. Damn near all of us either want or don't mind T'Challa being King again. But I would be lying if I said I didn't think T'Challa looked realllll funny in the light after the NA / TRO / Secret Wars arc. Which I shouldn't, T'Challa is my favorite character.

The other reality is that it appears a lot of BP fans, at least online, are straight up T'Challa fans. They could, for the most part, care less about everything else related to the BP mythos. It is a reason, I think, why many didn't mind much what was happening in the Hickman run.

He is cool, calm, collected, intelligent, and able to figure out something as complex as solving the "Galactus Problem". How do we, as readers reconcile that with the weak, emasculated, and ultimately beaten character that Hickman wrote for the past 4 or so years?

​

Def no complaints on Ultimates. As for reconciling with what previously happened...well, I try to not think much about it, but its hard to do when it comes up often and it was in a major, major event book.

I believe Coates is aware of this, I believe, if he has read Hickman's run as much studiously as claimed, that he will be using this run, and essentially the rebellion that is promised, to answer a singular question. Why DOES T'Challa deserve to be King? Remember, the enemy that will be faced in this "Season" are a group called The People. We, the readers, the fans, are essentially The People. And we have watched T'Challa become deconstructed down to a crying little boy who couldn't go forward with a plan he essentially helped formulate. Like Mr. Majestik has said before (and yourself as well) would you want someone like THAT to be your King? Would you follow such a man? Would you bleed for him? Would you DIE for him?

​

If Coates goes that route, I can dig it.

And would you forgive him simply because he pushed a button and "went back" to before all of these poorly made decisions occurred? A King doesn't get to "Go Back". A King doesn't get to "reclaim " his throne simply because he pushed a Gem and said "Let It Be So". A King MUST live with his decisions, be they made poorly or wisely, a King MUST be judged on the success or failure of his Kingdom, and if found wanting, a King MUST seek and EARN redemption.

​

Apparently, some people in the ANAD universe remember what happened. So there is a chance that some folks, perhaps the people, may say the buck stops with him, since he was in the middle of everything and left Wakanda in the dark.

Also makes me wonder, will "the people" place their grievances on the entire royal family, or specifically T'Challa? We have to wait and see.

This Arc will be about T'Challa's redemption, both in the eyes of his people and us as readers. T'Challa cannot TRULY be King when there are people who think Shuri would do a better job. We needn't look any further than the end of Secret Wars itself, Doom ADMITTED both to himself and to Reed that his Arch Nemesis would have done a better job as the ruling God. T'Challa will HAVE to come to that realization himself, that Shuri did a better job, when it came to ruling and fiercely PROTECTING Wakanda, and he will have to face the consequences of what his decisions have wrought.

​

Breh, you just brough up on of my main issues with T'Challa's characterization: him keeping highly-important intel to himself and his "crew" over his people.

The same man who flat out said the illuminati is a bad idea from the jump, and for very good reasons, invites the illuminati to what can be considered Wakandan soil and deals with a highly monumental problem that affects literally EVERYTHING and EVERYONE alone with that group. That's insane.

Meanwhile, Shuri could've gone to war with Atlantis while all of this was happening and had the juice to do it. Instead, even though she had no reason to do so, she holds a meeting and flat out asks T'Challa what he thinks, in front of her own generals...

Rather than telling Shuri and/or her cabinet, right then and there, that the incursions are going on and Wakanda has to prepare, he doesn't say shyt. Wakanda is about to valuable time, lives and resources, while their doom may be imminent and he doesn't say a word. Cuz, as Hickman wrote him, T'Challa's ego might as well be over 9000 and all that.

When T'Challa was caught lying to Shuri about his whereabouts and harboring Namor (how fukked up is that, you harboring the king of the country your own people are fighting), Shuri could've flipped out and try to stop the illunimati's operation. Instead, she simply asks him why Namor was there. And once again, T'Challa chose his crew over his own people.

Notice also that Shuri didn't try to detain him, attack him, kill him, or hurt him in anyway. Nope, she just banned up from Wakanda, left, and never interfered with his operation.

Why did she do all this? Because, at the end of the day, as written by Hickman, Shuri actually trusted her own people, including her conniving brother. T'Challa, on the other hand? Nope.

Some may argue that what difference would T'Challa relying on Wakanda do to solving the problem. Well, whether or not the Wakadans solve the problem isn't the point. The point is, as a BP, T'Challa has an obligation to his people first. And something like the incursions has to be told AT LEAST to Shuri, so that she can make plans to prepare in case shyt hits the fan.

Hell, freakin DOOM (one of Hickman's favorites) had enough sense to trust his own people and resources when trying to solve the problem his way:

And as we all know, its safe to say Doom fared better than anyone in this story arc. Yet, even he, in the end, was willing to admit he didn't have all the answers.

The story is called A NATION Under Our Feet. T'Challa's greatest Foe will be the one he HIMSELF was sworn to protect and serve, Wakanda. He will have to face THE PEOPLE who lost faith in him, THE PEOPLE whom he led to ruin and slaughter, and THE PEOPLE who read all of this in silent disgust. This will be Coates, and by Proxy T'Challa's biggest battle, for the respect and renewed faith of his NATION of readers, whom he will NEED to continue supporting him as a character as he makes his transition to A-list superhero within the Marvel Continuity. If posters like Mr Majestik can BELIEVE in the concept of T'Challa as King again, then the character is redeemed. We wouldn't NEED to have talk or debate the Monarchy ending, because THE PEOPLE will have a King they can trust. The King who saved the Universe from Galactus. The King who defeated his Father's murderer. The King who was once married to one of the world's most powerful individuals. The King who can command a NATION at his feet.

Do me a favor and post this on CBR. I want to know what people think​

​

​

I really hope Coates goes with this angle that you've presented. I'll post your post on CBR. Expect some pushback and potential fukkery.

EDIT: @Ziggiy, just posted it.

 

[Ziggiy]

Oh shyt LOL

But you brought up a great point. Damn near all of us either want or don't mind T'Challa being King again. But I would be lying if I said I didn't think T'Challa looked realllll funny in the light after the NA / TRO / Secret Wars arc. Which I shouldn't, T'Challa is my favorite character.

The other reality is that it appears a lot of BP fans, at least online, are straight up T'Challa fans. They could, for the most part, care less about everything else related to the BP mythos. It is a reason, I think, why many didn't mind much what was happening in the Hickman run.

​

Def no complaints on Ultimates. As for reconciling with what previously happened...well, I try to not think much about it, but its hard to do when it comes up often and it was in a major, major event book.

​

If Coates goes that route, I can dig it.

​

Apparently, some people in the ANAD universe remember what happened. So there is a chance that some folks, perhaps the people, may say the buck stops with him, since he was in the middle of everything and left Wakanda in the dark.

Also makes me wonder, will "the people" place their grievances on the entire royal family, or specifically T'Challa? We have to wait and see.

​

Breh, you just brough up on of my main issues with T'Challa's characterization: him keeping highly-important intel to himself and his "crew" over his people.

The same man who flat out said the illuminati is a bad idea from the jump, and for very good reasons, invites the illuminati to what can be considered Wakandan soil and deals with a highly monumental problem that affects literally EVERYTHING and EVERYONE alone with that group. That's insane.

Meanwhile, Shuri could've gone to war with Atlantis while all of this was happening and had the juice to do it. Instead, even though she had no reason to do so, she holds a meeting and flat out asks T'Challa what he thinks, in front of her own generals...

Rather than telling Shuri and/or her cabinet, right then and there, that the incursions are going on and Wakanda has to prepare, he doesn't say shyt. Wakanda is about to valuable time, lives and resources, while their doom may be imminent and he doesn't say a word. Cuz, as Hickman wrote him, T'Challa's ego might as well be over 9000 and all that.

When T'Challa was caught lying to Shuri about his whereabouts and harboring Namor (how fukked up is that, you harboring the king of the country your own people are fighting), Shuri could've flipped out and try to stop the illunimati's operation. Instead, she simply asks him why Namor was there. And once again, T'Challa chose his crew over his own people.

Notice also that Shuri didn't try to detain him, attack him, kill him, or hurt him in anyway. Nope, she just banned up from Wakanda, left, and never interfered with his operation.

Why did she do all this? Because, at the end of the day, as written by Hickman, Shuri actually trusted her own people, including her conniving brother. T'Challa, on the other hand? Nope.

Some may argue that what difference would T'Challa relying on Wakanda do to solving the problem. Well, whether or not the Wakadans solve the problem isn't the point. The point is, as a BP, T'Challa has an obligation to his people first. And something like the incursions has to be told AT LEAST to Shuri, so that she can make plans to prepare in case shyt hits the fan.

Hell, freakin DOOM (one of Hickman's favorites) had enough sense to trust his own people and resources when trying to solve the problem his way:

And as we all know, its safe to say Doom fared better than anyone in this story arc. Yet, even he, in the end, was willing to admit he didn't have all the answers.

​

I really hope Coates goes with this angle that you've presented. I'll post your post on CBR. Expect some pushback and potential fukkery.

EDIT: @Ziggiy, just posted it.

Thanks breh

 

[Ziggiy]

@Realdealholy im reading some of the responses and it seems in my estimation that people are misconstruing what I'm saying and the point of view I am coming from. And honestly I don't blame them as they really don't know me as a poster. So I will explain further...

I am 100% PRO-T'Challa. He is my favorite hero of all time. He is the Black Man that I DREAMED about being growing up. I am not coming from a point of view of "T'Challa Sucks" and Shuri is fantastic, as you know, for a while I was not particularly a fan of Shuri being Queen. I had various reasons for this, but mostly it's because T'Challa, outside of Priest and Hudlin, hadn't really gotten to spread his wings and be THE MAN. No disrespect to Priest, but even in that book T'Challa wasn't the MAN in the sense that he wasn't he one narrating his OWN book, it was left up to an outsider to narrate and give T'Challa perspective. What I found refreshing about Hudlin's portrayal was that it showed T'Challa's Struggles, triumphs, failures and Glory from HIS perspective, and with great respect. Black Panther was every bit the HERO and KING that he always deserved to be portrayed as. He WON fights, he COMMANDED respect, he used INTELLECT and stone cold calculation, he was a man who I could see a NATION following and trusting him.

When that got stripped away, and Shuri replaced him, I was bitter. However, thanks to posters like you and Mr Majestik, I was able to re-read the arc with fresh eyes and come to APPRECIATE what Shuri represented. I'm not going to attempt to force my opinion of Hickman's run on anyone else, suffice to say, it DID fracture T'Challa's fan-base, and I base this just not on the conversations we've had here, or what I've read on CBR, but in real life conversations I've had with Panther fans.

So my viewpoint is that, as KING, T'Challa has a responsibility greater than that of other superheroes, and his responsibilities within Hickman's run were...sorely lacking. Now taking into context that these events DID happen and that T'Challa CHOSE to make certain decisions, I feel that as KING, simply pressing a gem and "resetting" everything is a cop out, because it doesnt force T'Challa to come to grips with his actions. It actually totally undermines the character of Shuri and what SHE sacrificed in the name of Wakanda. People are using Namor's flooding of Wakanda against Shuri, when it could be argued that harboring the murderer of your people without alerting your Queen, your blood relative who to this point has nothing but respect for you and your commitment towards the kingdom, is an equally heinous offense.

In my opinion, T'Challa should INDEED face some sort of judgement for his actions, my thoughts aren't as harsh as Majestik's, as I fully and totally BELIEVE in T'Challa as a character and as a King. But does everyone? No. I believe Coates has an opportunity, an opportunity that he is aware of, to UNITE Wakanda 100% in T'Challa's favor, and by doing so unite the fanbase that has been fractured.

"In recent years Wakandans have endured a coup courtesy of the villainous Achebe, another courtesy Dr. Doom, the murder of two of T’Challa top lieutenants, a cataclysmic flood courtesy of Prince Namor, the subsequent dissolution of a royal marriage, and finally decimation and conquest at the hands of Thanos’ Black Order. Wakanda had always prided itself on having never been conquered. This is no longer true. What, then, is the country if it is as vulnerable as all others? And what happens to a state when its absolute monarch can no longer fulfill the base requirement of any government—securing the safety of their people?"

- Ta-Nahisi Coates

Again, Coates is directly addressing the trials and tribulations of recent years, and I believe he is conceding that a "reset" is not a proper way of dealing with the problem. There HAS to be accountability. Without accountability how can there be change? How can there be growth? How can there be the promise of wisdom through experience? T'Challa, as ALL Kings must, will have to face both the triumphs and failures of this kingdom. I also believe that Coates referencing "See Wakanda And Die" is a subtle illustration of the T'Challa that is 100% worthy of the title of King. This is the T'Challa who will earn redemption and the trust of his people. The People are simply a Physical manifestation of doubt. The doubt T'Challa grappled with in New Avengers, the doubt that some in the nation feel towards him as monarch, the doubt of some of the readership. By the end of this first Arc I firmly believe there will be NO doubt that T'Challa deserves to be King. The Nation, Shuri, and most importantly the READERSHIP will be witness to what makes T'Challa the Once And Future King

 

[Birnin Zana]

When that got stripped away, and Shuri replaced him, I was bitter. However, thanks to posters like you and Mr Majestik, I was able to re-read the arc with fresh eyes and come to APPRECIATE what Shuri represented. I'm not going to attempt to force my opinion of Hickman's run on anyone else, suffice to say, it DID fracture T'Challa's fan-base, and I base this just not on the conversations we've had here, or what I've read on CBR, but in real life conversations I've had with Panther fans.

I'll re-read your post in entirety and give a full response but I had to reply to this section real quick.

The biggest irony of many Shuri advocates today is originally we were not fans of the character AT ALL. Some of us either were highly indifferent of her (me), many felt she was unnecessary, and other really thought she was a waste of panel space, to be blunt. So when she took over as a BP, needless to say, it def wasn't something we were in favor of in the onset. Even me, I still considered THE BP as T'Challa through and through. Shuri was aight, but somewhat of an afterthought. She had good appearances here and there, but everyone knew that when it came to the BP franchise, if T'Challa wasn't involved, we really didn't fukk with it.

Things started changing around New Avengers, and especially Infinity. While many still liked T'Challa's portrayal, I started being disturbed by what I felt was a new direction T'Challa as a character was headed. Less "For Wakanda", more "for the world". Even "For The World" would've been fine, except we see T'Challa make rather questionable decisions over and over. And of course, him lying to Shuri, the whole bomb situation , and not killing Namor when he was supposed to really had me looking at the character sideways.

Meanwhile, Shuri was steadfast in protecting Wakanda and its people. Her purpose was clear and reminiscent of the old T'Challa from the previous runs, as well has her ancestors. She did everything she did with not even half of the intel the illuminati had. And she still trusted her brother many times, despite him lying to her over and over.

I was basically at a fork of the road storywise. Do I stick with my favorite character, T'Challa? Or do I rock with the character that fits more what I felt a BP and ruler of Wakanda was all about?

Thus, I, and several others, became a fan of Shuri.

T'Challa is still my favorite character, but many people, including Coates it seems, really liked T'Challa's portrayal. Meaning that we might have a repackaging of such a portrayal in the near future. And while, on paper, it isn't the worst of the worst, I just can't rock with it.

As far as Wakanda is concered, if we are getting that T'Challa, I need Shuri to balance it out. I'm not in the mood for a monarch thinking he knows everything and not trusting the very people that trust him. Not at all. At least with Shuri, you know she'll hold it down for Wakanda.

 

[Birnin Zana]

@Realdealholy im reading some of the responses and it seems in my estimation that people are misconstruing what I'm saying and the point of view I am coming from. And honestly I don't blame them as they really don't know me as a poster. So I will explain further...

I am 100% PRO-T'Challa. He is my favorite hero of all time. He is the Black Man that I DREAMED about being growing up. I am not coming from a point of view of "T'Challa Sucks" and Shuri is fantastic, as you know, for a while I was not particularly a fan of Shuri being Queen. I had various reasons for this, but mostly it's because T'Challa, outside of Priest and Hudlin, hadn't really gotten to spread his wings and be THE MAN. No disrespect to Priest, but even in that book T'Challa wasn't the MAN in the sense that he wasn't he one narrating his OWN book, it was left up to an outsider to narrate and give T'Challa perspective. What I found refreshing about Hudlin's portrayal was that it showed T'Challa's Struggles, triumphs, failures and Glory from HIS perspective, and with great respect. Black Panther was every bit the HERO and KING that he always deserved to be portrayed as. He WON fights, he COMMANDED respect, he used INTELLECT and stone cold calculation, he was a man who I could see a NATION following and trusting him.

When that got stripped away, and Shuri replaced him, I was bitter. However, thanks to posters like you and Mr Majestik, I was able to re-read the arc with fresh eyes and come to APPRECIATE what Shuri represented. I'm not going to attempt to force my opinion of Hickman's run on anyone else, suffice to say, it DID fracture T'Challa's fan-base, and I base this just not on the conversations we've had here, or what I've read on CBR, but in real life conversations I've had with Panther fans.

So my viewpoint is that, as KING, T'Challa has a responsibility greater than that of other superheroes, and his responsibilities within Hickman's run were...sorely lacking. Now taking into context that these events DID happen and that T'Challa CHOSE to make certain decisions, I feel that as KING, simply pressing a gem and "resetting" everything is a cop out, because it doesnt force T'Challa to come to grips with his actions. It actually totally undermines the character of Shuri and what SHE sacrificed in the name of Wakanda. People are using Namor's flooding of Wakanda against Shuri, when it could be argued that harboring the murderer of your people without alerting your Queen, your blood relative who to this point has nothing but respect for you and your commitment towards the kingdom, is an equally heinous offense.

In my opinion, T'Challa should INDEED face some sort of judgement for his actions, my thoughts aren't as harsh as Majestik's, as I fully and totally BELIEVE in T'Challa as a character and as a King. But does everyone? No. I believe Coates has an opportunity, an opportunity that he is aware of, to UNITE Wakanda 100% in T'Challa's favor, and by doing so unite the fanbase that has been fractured.

"In recent years Wakandans have endured a coup courtesy of the villainous Achebe, another courtesy Dr. Doom, the murder of two of T’Challa top lieutenants, a cataclysmic flood courtesy of Prince Namor, the subsequent dissolution of a royal marriage, and finally decimation and conquest at the hands of Thanos’ Black Order. Wakanda had always prided itself on having never been conquered. This is no longer true. What, then, is the country if it is as vulnerable as all others? And what happens to a state when its absolute monarch can no longer fulfill the base requirement of any government—securing the safety of their people?"

- Ta-Nahisi Coates

Again, Coates is directly addressing the trials and tribulations of recent years, and I believe he is conceding that a "reset" is not a proper way of dealing with the problem. There HAS to be accountability. Without accountability how can there be change? How can there be growth? How can there be the promise of wisdom through experience? T'Challa, as ALL Kings must, will have to face both the triumphs and failures of this kingdom. I also believe that Coates referencing "See Wakanda And Die" is a subtle illustration of the T'Challa that is 100% worthy of the title of King. This is the T'Challa who will earn redemption and the trust of his people. The People are simply a Physical manifestation of doubt. The doubt T'Challa grappled with in New Avengers, the doubt that some in the nation feel towards him as monarch, the doubt of some of the readership. By the end of this first Arc I firmly believe there will be NO doubt that T'Challa deserves to be King. The Nation, Shuri, and most importantly the READERSHIP will be witness to what makes T'Challa the Once And Future King

I def feel you on that post.

And I really hope Coates goes that route. In a very strange way, that would help bring closure to everything that has happened in the past five years.

Ultimately, all BP fans want T'Challa to succeed. And hopefully this run helps him do just that, while bringing him back to what we loved about him as a character.

 

[Kartel13]

No words on Emperor Feige and Coogler having "creative difference" yet?

 

[Ziggiy]

I def feel you on that post.

And I really hope Coates goes that route. In a very strange way, that would help bring closure to everything that has happened in the past five years.

Ultimately, all BP fans want T'Challa to succeed. And hopefully this run helps him do just that, while bringing him back to what we loved about him as a character.

Exactly. I feel that Coates is very smart and I feel he is telling us exactly what we can look forward too and I am very excited.

Did you post that last one on CBR? Hopefully that clears up my point of view a bit

 

[Ziggiy]

No words on Emperor Feige and Coogler having "creative difference" yet?

It won't happen Breh. Mark my words Coogler is a smart brotha and I'm SURE Ava put him in game before negotiations started. Coogler and Marvel are good

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

It won't happen Breh. Mark my words Coogler is a smart brotha and I'm SURE Ava put him in game before negotiations started. Coogler and Marvel are good

We'll see

 

[Birnin Zana]

Exactly. I feel that Coates is very smart and I feel he is telling us exactly what we can look forward too and I am very excited.

Did you post that last one on CBR? Hopefully that clears up my point of view a bit

Not yet, didn't know you wanted me to post it. Will do it.

You should consider signing up. That way you can defend yourself directly.

EDIT: @Ziggiy, just posted it

 

[Ziggiy]

Not yet, didn't know you wanted me to post it. Will do it.

You should consider signing up. That way you can defend yourself directly.

True I've been considering it but every time I do you or Mr Majestik basically say everything I was going too lol.

Plus you KNOW how militant I am. I come on there full force I'm sweeping legs

 

[Birnin Zana]

True I've been considering it but every time I do you or Mr Majestik basically say everything I was going too lol.

Plus you KNOW how militant I am. I come on there full force I'm sweeping legs

Do it breh, I'm sure there will be some rebuttals. It would be better if they read the replies from the horses mouth.

BTW, one thing I noticed about your post:

I'm not going to attempt to force my opinion of Hickman's run on anyone else, suffice to say, it DID fracture T'Challa's fan-base, and I base this just not on the conversations we've had here, or what I've read on CBR, but in real life conversations I've had with Panther fans.

​

Damn, opinions of T'Challa's portrayal were that split? Especially offline? I did not know that.

 

[Birnin Zana]

No words on Emperor Feige and Coogler having "creative difference" yet?

I don't see it happening. After the Edgar Wright situation, I'm sure both Marvel (especially) and Coogler made sure that this is something they can actually go with. I don't see Coogler signing up if the creative stuff wasn't settled beforehand.

 

[Ziggiy]

Do it breh, I'm sure there will be some rebuttals. It would be better if they read the replies from the horses mouth.

BTW, one thing I noticed about your post:

​

Damn, opinions of T'Challa's portrayal were that split? Especially offline? I did not know that.

Couple brothers I know who are comic fans basically stopped reading ANYTHING Panther related after the "Weeping Panther" debacle. They HATED that entire arc, I was right there with them until I decided to do a complete re-read starting with Hudlin once I knew Secret Wars was coming to an end. Throughout that re-read I REALLY gained a new appreciation for Shuri, I also rediscovered my love for the Panther/Storm marriage and Luke Cage's friendship with T'Challa. Hudlin wrote, what I would consider a FUN book. I immensely ENJOYED T'Challa being the MAN. Loved how he humbled Tony Starks.





Black Love is Perfection brehs


I mean seriously you can't tell me that THIS isn't Swag personified




Then we had the FANTASTIC See Wakanda And Die. I mean really that whole run was just a comic fans dream.


And then Hickman took over Buzz Killington himself...





I'm not going to lie it almost killed T'Challa for me, but again I'm a fan, and that means sticking with your Hero through the High's And Lows. So now I'm hoping that Coates can take T'Challa to new highs


My Comic nerd buddies are JUST now starting to get back on board with the end of Hickman's run, and Ewing doing such a great job with Ultimates. The movie announcement and his portrayal in Civil War have also helped to redeem him.