Official Black Panther Film Thread (SPOILERS)

Ukbrotha

Superstar
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
16,241
Reputation
1,504
Daps
38,512
Reppin
Naija, London, Earth
@NobodyReally

I felt they built up W'Kabi's reason for betrayal quite well. He wanted Klaue because Klaue killed his pops. T'Chaka and T'Chala had both failed to bring him that justice and when Killmonger did he was ready to give him a chance. Killmonger was then able to lay down his own plans with the council W'Kabi had already thought about and told T'Chala but T'Chala disagreed with but here was Killmonger saying the same thing but just an extreme version of it so he was ready to buy into Killmonger's ideas since they weren't far from his.

Thats my take anyways.
 

NobodyReally

Superstar
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
8,366
Reputation
3,109
Daps
27,925
Reppin
Cornfields, cows, & an one stoplight town
OK @Ukbrotha I'm posting it in here now. Looking forward to your thoughts.

I'm in an online writing community. People from all over the world. What's really cool is how all of these really good writers were hyped from the writing of this film. We really got into it about point of view and character arcs. One of my friends in this group, who is white and Canadian, had the following to say and I wanted to see what y'all thought about her praise and critique of the film, particularly when it terms of Killmonger and the message of the movie.

this movie was political, and i am political. some of my thoughts are political, others are writing oriented. others still are muddled trying to sort one of these categories from the other. i think erik killmonger is an extremely fukking good character. the rest is under a cut.

erik killmonger is a genius. also, he was made ruthless by the united states military. his backstory is shown to be traumatic, but it was his history in the US military, explicitly and repeatedly said to be a colonizing force, that made him violent. (this is a whole essay in itself and i don’t plan to expand on that here.) martin freeman’s role was useful in terms of emphasizing that killmonger is the way he is owing to US military training and efforts as a colonizing body. however, the fact that killmonger grew up black and without a father in oakland is still significant to his character. killmonger was EXTREMELY well done imo and i’m having trouble handling critique against his character.

martin freeman should have died. he was briefly useful in contextualizing killmonger and the excellent butt of white people jokes but then he should have died so that he couldn’t report wakandan shyt back to the US. jesus h christ.

it did not initially strike me as damaging that the majority of the movie’s political message & statements came from killmonger; however, it is significant that they all came from killmonger, who is the villain. i am still ruminating on this. perhaps it is significant that t’challa’s character, being the central figure, had the concerns of government to contend with. he grew up in an environment where his sights had to be on the nation, its people, maintaining isolationism. he undergoes complex character development, but he spends the majority of the film conflicted. the politics/message in a film like this must come from “the believer,” who could not have been the protagonist in this case. from a writing point of view, this is why it didn’t bother me that the political message lay with killmonger, but from a political point of view, it naturally dilutes the message when it comes from the source of the threat. even though killmonger was EXTREMELY sympathetic, he was nonetheless the person we were rooting against. this seems a flaw of the superhero genre more than anything, and it seemed like the ryan coogler was doing his absolute best to fukk with that structure as much as he could, but here we still had to be.

nakia shares and also vocalizes killmonger’s POV, well before we know who killmonger is. this is significant. however, nakia values wakanda, state and people both, and will fight for her beliefs within existing structures (+reform), which is also significant. killmonger is explicitly said to be trying to destabilize the state to further personal aims at the expense of wakandan people, but that doesn’t make this less of a “magneto was right” situation.

no person states a view that someone else doesn’t also share at some point in the film. this seems important and intentional both.

nakia also undergoes considerable character development. she no longer feels so strongly at the end of the film, it seems to me, as she did at the beginning about how sharing resources must come about. t’challa has come to her point of view, nakia has come to his. this pleases me from a writing and character development POV, but i am still processing something politically here. it seems to have to do with killmonger again—he was given a LOT of sympathy, and thank god, but he was not given a similar chance to evolve. this again says a lot about what happens when you have to give the villain your central message. to reiterate—i think the writing here was sublime, but it’s a flaw of the superhero genre that he had to be placed at such incommensurable odds with t’challa. t’challa’s victory did not feel victorious, though; it felt like mourning, and that mitigated a lot of this genre-based shortcoming to me.

w’kabi’s betrayal was a LOT more damaging, from a political point of view, than pretty much anything to do with killmonger, from my white-person point of view. he essentially turned his back on his nation and contributed to the bulk of the fighting in the civil war, electing not to respond to reasonfrom those he trusted, without any obvious character motivation. killmonger is ruthless because the US military made him so; w’kabi betrays without any clear reason. it was an attempt to show another point of view, but it is worse to me (both writing-wise and politically) because he incited violence against his own people baselessly. w’kabi’s seeming lack of motives and martin freeman’s survival are the film’s main flaws to me.

i deeply enjoyed this movie. it felt real, it was well-structured, well-paced, well-acted, well-written, heartfelt, political. i thought michael b. jordan in particular was sublime. i will see it again in the near future.
 

Anbesa

All Star
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
2,337
Reputation
400
Daps
6,927
Reppin
Atlanta
@NobodyReally

I felt they built up W'Kabi's reason for betrayal quite well. He wanted Klaue because Klaue killed his pops. T'Chaka and T'Chala had both failed to bring him that justice and when Killmonger did he was ready to give him a chance. Killmonger was then able to lay down his own plans with the council W'Kabi had already thought about and told T'Chala but T'Chala disagreed with but here was Killmonger saying the same thing but just an extreme version of it so he was ready to buy into Killmonger's ideas since they weren't far from his.

Thats my take anyways.
Idk, his turn rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed like they established that W'Kabi and T'Challa were boys since childhood and he wasnt just the leader of another tribe. Now I can buy him supporting Killmonger as he was the king by law and even him buying into his plan. But he seemed a little too eager to fight T'Challa to the death in the final battle.
 
Last edited:

#1 pick

The Smart Negroes
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
76,692
Reputation
11,197
Daps
197,458
Reppin
Lamb of God
You just knew someone from LSA would say some stupid shyt:mjlol:
LSA is lost just like Killmonger's character. Acting a damn fool 24/7 is just an effect of white supremacy. Let's be real, this movie showed Black women in their true form. Their African form, not their white supremacy coat.
 

Rekkapryde

GT, LWO, 49ERS, BRAVES, HAWKS, N4O...yeah UMAD!
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
148,376
Reputation
26,489
Daps
498,599
Reppin
TYRONE GA!
It’s actually perfect timing when you consider who is coming to earth. Staying hidden would have been a major L since it appears Wakanda is a huge part of Infinity War.

Yup. Agree with this take below of the end
"T’Challa promising to reveal Wakanda’s unrivaled capabilities and power seems to put Wakanda in an extremely important position going into Avengers: Infinity War. The idea is that, when Thanos shows up to wreak havoc on Earth, the fate of the planet will ultimately depend on the efforts of its mightiest country: Wakanda"
 

Rekkapryde

GT, LWO, 49ERS, BRAVES, HAWKS, N4O...yeah UMAD!
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
148,376
Reputation
26,489
Daps
498,599
Reppin
TYRONE GA!
Idk, his turn rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed like they established that W'Kabi and T'Challa were boys since childhood and he wasnt just the leader of another tribe. Now I can buy him supporting Killmonger as he was the king by law and even him buying into his plan. But he seemed a little too eager to fight T'Challa to the death in the final battle.
Agree with this
 

Ukbrotha

Superstar
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
16,241
Reputation
1,504
Daps
38,512
Reppin
Naija, London, Earth
OK @Ukbrotha I'm posting it in here now. Looking forward to your thoughts.

I'm in an online writing community. People from all over the world. What's really cool is how all of these really good writers were hyped from the writing of this film. We really got into it about point of view and character arcs. One of my friends in this group, who is white and Canadian, had the following to say and I wanted to see what y'all thought about her praise and critique of the film, particularly when it terms of Killmonger and the message of the movie.

this movie was political, and i am political. some of my thoughts are political, others are writing oriented. others still are muddled trying to sort one of these categories from the other. i think erik killmonger is an extremely fukking good character. the rest is under a cut.

erik killmonger is a genius. also, he was made ruthless by the united states military. his backstory is shown to be traumatic, but it was his history in the US military, explicitly and repeatedly said to be a colonizing force, that made him violent. (this is a whole essay in itself and i don’t plan to expand on that here.) martin freeman’s role was useful in terms of emphasizing that killmonger is the way he is owing to US military training and efforts as a colonizing body. however, the fact that killmonger grew up black and without a father in oakland is still significant to his character. killmonger was EXTREMELY well done imo and i’m having trouble handling critique against his character.

martin freeman should have died. he was briefly useful in contextualizing killmonger and the excellent butt of white people jokes but then he should have died so that he couldn’t report wakandan shyt back to the US. jesus h christ.

it did not initially strike me as damaging that the majority of the movie’s political message & statements came from killmonger; however, it is significant that they all came from killmonger, who is the villain. i am still ruminating on this. perhaps it is significant that t’challa’s character, being the central figure, had the concerns of government to contend with. he grew up in an environment where his sights had to be on the nation, its people, maintaining isolationism. he undergoes complex character development, but he spends the majority of the film conflicted. the politics/message in a film like this must come from “the believer,” who could not have been the protagonist in this case. from a writing point of view, this is why it didn’t bother me that the political message lay with killmonger, but from a political point of view, it naturally dilutes the message when it comes from the source of the threat. even though killmonger was EXTREMELY sympathetic, he was nonetheless the person we were rooting against. this seems a flaw of the superhero genre more than anything, and it seemed like the ryan coogler was doing his absolute best to fukk with that structure as much as he could, but here we still had to be.

nakia shares and also vocalizes killmonger’s POV, well before we know who killmonger is. this is significant. however, nakia values wakanda, state and people both, and will fight for her beliefs within existing structures (+reform), which is also significant. killmonger is explicitly said to be trying to destabilize the state to further personal aims at the expense of wakandan people, but that doesn’t make this less of a “magneto was right” situation.

no person states a view that someone else doesn’t also share at some point in the film. this seems important and intentional both.

nakia also undergoes considerable character development. she no longer feels so strongly at the end of the film, it seems to me, as she did at the beginning about how sharing resources must come about. t’challa has come to her point of view, nakia has come to his. this pleases me from a writing and character development POV, but i am still processing something politically here. it seems to have to do with killmonger again—he was given a LOT of sympathy, and thank god, but he was not given a similar chance to evolve. this again says a lot about what happens when you have to give the villain your central message. to reiterate—i think the writing here was sublime, but it’s a flaw of the superhero genre that he had to be placed at such incommensurable odds with t’challa. t’challa’s victory did not feel victorious, though; it felt like mourning, and that mitigated a lot of this genre-based shortcoming to me.

w’kabi’s betrayal was a LOT more damaging, from a political point of view, than pretty much anything to do with killmonger, from my white-person point of view. he essentially turned his back on his nation and contributed to the bulk of the fighting in the civil war, electing not to respond to reasonfrom those he trusted, without any obvious character motivation. killmonger is ruthless because the US military made him so; w’kabi betrays without any clear reason. it was an attempt to show another point of view, but it is worse to me (both writing-wise and politically) because he incited violence against his own people baselessly. w’kabi’s seeming lack of motives and martin freeman’s survival are the film’s main flaws to me.

i deeply enjoyed this movie. it felt real, it was well-structured, well-paced, well-acted, well-written, heartfelt, political. i thought michael b. jordan in particular was sublime. i will see it again in the near future.
@NobodyReally

I felt they built up W'Kabi's reason for betrayal quite well. He wanted Klaue because Klaue killed his pops. T'Chaka and T'Chala had both failed to bring him that justice and when Killmonger did he was ready to give him a chance. Killmonger was then able to lay down his own plans with the council W'Kabi had already thought about and told T'Chala but T'Chala disagreed with but here was Killmonger saying the same thing but just an extreme version of it so he was ready to buy into Killmonger's ideas since they weren't far from his.

Thats my take anyways.
 
Top