My problem with Wakanda as a fictional concept (No B.S. zone)

[David_TheMan]

Correct, just chopping it up like any other topic in the root. There is no "devious intent" or anything like that.
Actually one of the reasons why I wanted to post this well before the move hit. ...I failed



1. Are you talking about a way to make wakandas pan-african stance fit within the current marvel narrative cannon on wakanda?
I agree that would work narratively to explain away wakandas relative inaction over 20+ years of comic book continuity.
That said, my problem is with the existence of the continuity(as configured) itself ...the continuity in relation to my politics that is.
(I can make a distinction between interesting story/character and poor politics ...hell I do it all the time listening to hip hop)

In this reguard I'm reminded of something Marimba Ani said about one of Alice Walkers books, dealing with women in Africa...
(Basically Alice walker was just picking African topics out the air to write on, without being within a larger political vision for African people.)

(Time stamped for convenience)​

2. Preach







3. I'm not clear what you mean here

1) The story construct is what I'm referring to.
2) lol
3) I think the gold mine that marvel has in creating legitimate tension between two seperate groups of blacks, with very serious disagreements than can become hot conflicts quickly on a large scale without even really being broken down into the usual good vs bad guy classifications is there for marvel, with their black characters in relation to Wakanda, but they don't have the writers to pull it off anymore. They will most likely default to radicalizing one participant to the point of absurdity and then hitting you with the cliche we are all one race speech from the good guy.

 

[AlainLocke]

Can an author construct a fiction about African peoples/descendants which doesn't make reference to a political/economic future devoid of white supremacy?

In the Marvel Universe, white supremacy exists but Wakanda remains but an insecure island of black autonomy

You could but it would be intellectually dishonest.

I think that's the problem with Black Panther....

There is a panel of Black Panther talking about the real Black Panthers and him saying that he doesn't care about them because he is a king...




So you have an American comic, named after a socialist Black American political movement, created by White American Jews, and the main character is a trillionaire African King that gives no fukks about the actual Black Panther Party or the conditions of Black Americans in America...cause he's rich as fukk and a king.

And I ain't saying Africans have to care about the plight of Black Americans cause I ain't some Pan-Africanist like that...

But I am saying...this American comic book character is a American White supremacist fantasy.

Black people misunderstanding the goals of the average openly White Supremacists and White Nationalists...

They simply don't want you in their space and underneath their government taking resources from them.

They want you to go away to your own country.

They don't want you fukking up their bloodline.

Most ardent White Nationalists are isolationists and segregations...which is why the NOI and Marcus Garvey had no problem working with them and meeting them...

Colonization is an act of White Supremacist Neo-Liberalism where Westerners believe that their Western European governance and philosophy can enlighten the darker races and build them up.

Colonization in the mind of Western neo-liberals of their time...wasn't to hurt the indigenous population...it was to better them. They were "backwards". They had tribes and shyt still. White people didn't have tribes anymore, they had citizens and multiculturalism. White people didn't have kings anymore. White people had republics. The indigenous people had multiple gods, White man had one.

Neo-liberals believe in the ideal of progress, all human endeavors get better with time...it's just that is a Western idea. For some groups, White people need to intervene and speed up the process.

White Supremacists and even White Neo-liberals would love a country like Wakanda actually existing...

Wakanda wouldn't be an enemy of any Western government. They would be the allies of the Western governments, used to keep track of hostile African nations.

Wakanda solves about 3 problems from White Supremacists and White Nationalists...

1. White people don't need to "civilize" them.
2. White people don't need to worry about them immigrating to their country.
3. White people finally have an African nation that is similar on scale to their own and that they can fellowship with as equals.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

those are the creators of Wakanda and Black panther

Yeah I know they are, I posted them on the first page

...what do they have to do with...

B b b b b but wakanda doesn’t pose a threat to global institution racism

..............

 

[BigMan]

Yeah I know they are, I posted them on the first page

...what do they have to do with...

..............

family, youre asking why a fictitious place created by those nikkas isn't a threat to white institutional racism

you don't see the conflict in interest

 

[bourgeoisie tall freak]

so make your own story then



or i see your website... are your video games or the games that you spend your life being involved with spot on true reflection of african societies like you wish black panther to be?

 

[Dwolf]

Not only are those post difficult to read, they are also difficult to understand. Im considering negging you

 

[Neuromancer]

@CharlieManson the comic predates the movement by 4 months.

 

[Red Shield]

folks are losing their fukking minds

its just a comic book movie

 

[AlainLocke]

@CharlieManson the comic predates the movement by 4 months.

The Black Panther logo was used by organizations to combat White Supremacy in the USA before the official Black Panther Party and even the Black Panther character.

The Black Panther Party took the logo from a group in the South.

Lowndes County Freedom Organization was one of the first to use the Black Panther logo...

The Black Panther been apart of Black American resistance before the character.

 

[Afrodroid]

I want to de-contextualize wakanda from the Marvel Universe narrative and consider it under the same level of scrutiny as any such similar ideas posted on the root.
See:

I read the whole thread but still understood shyt



Wut point are you trying to reach breh?

 

[Neuromancer]

The Black Panther logo was used by organizations to combat White Supremacy in the USA before the official Black Panther Party and even the Black Panther character.

The Black Panther Party took the logo from a group in the South.

Lowndes County Freedom Organization was one of the first to use the Black Panther logo...

The Black Panther been apart of Black American resistance before the character.

refering to the name not the logo.

 

[Chez Lopez]

Great post.
Doesn't quite go far enough, but thoroughly done.

My issue is that this is obviously propaganda, like every other movie. Blaxploitation film 2018. Black comic created by Caucasians, black movie funded by the same. Who cares if black actors are getting work if that work propagandizes our community with fictional heroes and false reality.

Our black heroes are Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, David, MESSIAH... not a fictional character dressed like a cat.

 

[David_TheMan]

Great post.
Doesn't quite go far enough, but thoroughly done.

My issue is that this is obviously propaganda, like every other movie. Blaxploitation film 2018. Black comic created by Caucasians, black movie funded by the same. Who cares if black actors are getting work if that work propagandizes our community with fictional heroes and false reality.

Our black heroes are Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, David, MESSIAH... not a fictional character dressed like a cat.

those are fictional characters though, especially Daniel.

 

[Chez Lopez]

lol. How can there be an especially fictional character?

I don't know if you speak for our culture, but it is very obvious that defending thousands of years old ancestors and ancestry severely trumps defending a Caucasian created, racist impromptu fill-in, in a spandex cat suit.

i cant stress this enough.

 

[BlackJesus]

Seems to me the purpose of the thread is simple, to spark a discussion.

@videogamestashbox.com I would say I don't think Wakanda would have to have any issue with Pan-Africanism. As long as they show blacks from all over not identifying with them and them not identifying with them.
In that context it could work and it would make perfect sense storywise in terms of politics intra the black race.
The thing I don't like about the movie that I see being pushed by the shea butters on social media is that wakanda or Black Panther shows an ideal, to me it doesn't.
As a concept Wakanda shows a total failure, if for instance Wakanda existed in the real world I would want nothing to do with its people, and I would hate and work to see the death of black panther along with others who either participated in or consented to the system of white supremacy that dominates the world. to me though that attitude could be a very powerful and engaging storyline, but its a area I doubt marvel wants to really venture into, without pulling the black panther wakandans are good blacks that hate them are "evil" blinded by "rage" and not realizing we are "all the same" (tm)

Why would you work to see the death of the only black society that has escaped the clutches of white supremacy just because they don't actively challenge it but simply isolate themselves? You are thinking like the typical hoe. You are emotional.

'Wakanda' is a starting point to help black people to even visualize a society not in dominated by European paradigms. You don't work to destroy that you try to build upon it.