My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

Frump

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I agree with you, actually.

But breh, I understand y'all. Dead ass, I do.

Through nikkas on the other side of the debate a bone and atleast admit you understand how it can be difficult or some people to just be okay with low key sabotaging the team they love.

I don't understand the other side because the teams sucked for almost 2 straight decades yet a rebuild they couldn't take?

Is winning only 20 games instead of 30 that much worse?

If this was 2001 and we were just coming off of a decade of contending I could see why it would be hard for fans to digest but when you've been this bad for so long i don't understand being so against rebuilding when the win now approach CLEARLY has failed

And it's not just about tanking it's also about going young and giving the young players a shot and if losses come with it then so be it
 

I.V.

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Tanking For Who?

I Mean Tanking Makes Sense In Some Circumstances But We're Kind Of Boxed In To A Point Where Tanking Isn't Really An Option

Again, I'm not advocating "tanking." But the answer to your question of "who?" is: Literally anybody young and good. You don't need a LeBron in a draft to tank.

Dwyane Wade, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook -- these kinds of guys get drafted not expected to be superstars -- but they are taken with top picks.

Fultz and Smith are incredibly athletic, dynamic guards. Lonzo is a wildly creative guard who can lead an nba team now, potentially. Josh Jackson and Monk are insane athletes, Tatum has great length for a wing, Isaac looks and moves like rawer KD, shyt Robert Williams could end up being a rangy defensive force, Harry Giles could take off in the second half, we're still learning about Ntilikina Jonathan Jeane, and who knows else.

The fact is, if you end up fighting for an 8 seed, you probably don't have a shot at any of them. (maybe Jeanne)
 
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ThaBronxBully

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Knicks Fans Don't Mind A Rebuild If That's What Its Dictated As, But We Never Dealt W That Reality Cause The Organization Refuses To Do It

U Really Think Were Afraid Of Going Into A Season Knowing It'll Be A Losing One? :heh:
 

ThaBronxBully

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Again, I'm not advocating "tanking." But the answer to your question of "who?" is: Literally anybody young and good. You don't need a LeBron in a draft to tank.

Dwyane Wade, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook -- these kinds of guys get drafted not expected to be superstars -- but they are taken with top picks.

It Makes Sense But Its A Hell Of A Shot In The Dark lol
 

I.V.

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Didn't read

Makes sense. You don't seem to read much at all.

giphy.gif
 

Mr. Jack Napier

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The only thing that develops a winning culture is talent, because talent is what wins. Rebuilding a roster takes time, and while Philly may not be contending any time soon... neither will anybody aside from GSW and Cleveland.

I'm not advocating tanking, I don't think this roster is bad enough to get a top 5-8 pick right now. But all of this "you can find great players late in the draft" shyt is silly and ahistorical. While you CAN find great players in the back of the draft... you are far more likely to find them at the top of the draft. The higher your pick, the higher the chance you have of getting the most talented player possible. The numbers bear it out.

So while "there is no guarantee that a high pick gets a you a star" there is a guarantee that a higher pick gets you a better chance at a star. And the knicks roster, as currently constructed -- has exactly one player who will be a star two years from now. That isn't enough to win.

And BECAUSE "over the years big name free agents have spurned us" and considering the way the CBA has been updated to help teams keep the stars they draft -- you have to bank on building from within, which means drafting those stars yourself.

These points are not up for debate. They are facts. Now, if you want to argue that you'd prefer to watch a team that is scraping and scrapping for 25-38 wins, rather than one that is getting its face kicked in for 72 losses. That is a fair and valid argument to make. But it is an argument of your taste -- not what is best for acquiring talent.

I think more than anything, this is what I have argued over in this thread with fans. I think people easily mix up their feelings about watching a team, with what is best for the team's long term success. And they like to talk about "playoff experience for the players" when what they really mean is "I want to watch my team in the playoffs."

I want to see Porzingis in the playoffs, too.

The fact is the Knicks have needed to go through a full rebuilding for almost 15 years now, and they won't do it. And we give Phil Jackson shyt for making short-sighted decisions (whatup Joakim) -- but the reality is, if you read through this thread most of the fans here are just as impatient as Phil. We tanked one year, and got Porzingis. We now have a player that will still be a star talent in 3 years. But fans panic and want to see the playoffs now, just like Phil did this summer.

This isn't a direct attack on either of the posters I quoted. They represent a feeling among some fans. And some GMs, too, it turns out. But if you can't see the cycle there, or at least the parallel, then you should probably not bother responding.

But people on this forum, some in this thread will say that every other team is a treadmill team, and that their seasons are pointless.
 

ogc163

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Knicks Fans Don't Mind A Rebuild If That's What Its Dictated As, But We Never Dealt W That Reality Cause The Organization Refuses To Do It

U Really Think Were Afraid Of Going Into A Season Knowing It'll Be A Losing One?:heh:

:gucci:Based on the rhetoric in this thread, the answer is clearly yes.
 

Mr. Jack Napier

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It Makes Sense But Its A Hell Of A Shot In The Dark lol

The whole draft is a crap shoot, and I'm not debating that the higher pick, gives you a better chance, obviously. But how many times have we seen guys that were lottery picks or drafted in the top 5 & be complete busts. That's why I brought up the Thabeet names earlier. But you have some posters who are completely gun ho on that the ONLY way to win is through the draft.

Yes the new CBA will allow teams to have a better chance to keep their "prized" picks, but it's NOT a guarantee to keep them from bolting. Sh*t what's to say that KP gets tired of NYC, and decides to dip?
 

ogc163

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I don't understand the other side because the teams sucked for almost 2 straight decades yet a rebuild they couldn't take?

Is winning only 20 games instead of 30 that much worse?

If this was 2001 and we were just coming off of a decade of contending I could see why it would be hard for fans to digest but when you've been this bad for so long i don't understand being so against rebuilding when the win now approach CLEARLY has failed

And it's not just about tanking it's also about going young and giving the young players a shot and if losses come with it then so be it

The other side has been consistently wrong for the last couple of years, why should I care what they have to say? :yeshrug:
 

ikbm

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The whole draft is a crap shoot, and I'm not debating that the higher pick, gives you a better chance, obviously. But how many times have we seen guys that were lottery picks or drafted in the top 5 & be complete busts. That's why I brought up the Thabeet names earlier. But you have some posters who are completely gun ho on that the ONLY way to win is through the draft.

Yes the new CBA will allow teams to have a better chance to keep their "prized" picks, but it's NOT a guarantee to keep them from bolting. Sh*t what's to say that KP gets tired of NYC, and decides to dip?
RESTRICTED FREE AGENCY AND THE FACT WE CAN PAY HIM 80 MILLION MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE.
thats why its important to build through the draft
controllable young talent....that was drafted to fit together ideally and develop and compete together for years.
kevin durant situations wont happen agan.
edit: take the warriors for instance..their initial core before durant...was all players drafted by them...and a few veterans sprinkled in.
 

Squirrel from Meteor Man

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Sixers do as long as Embiid plays. He's a generational talent

But Knick fans don't want to go through the long grueling 4 year rebuild of the Sixers.

They'd rather try for the 8th seed and suck for 17 years :mjlol:
Lmaooo so the Sixers can compete with the Cavs and warriors for a title in the next 3 years because they have Ben Simmons and Embiid? Oh, and some big name rookie they'll draft this year. With no guards and no shooting. You cannot believe this.
 

ogc163

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New CBA's big message to NBA teams: Don't screw up the draft

A text came in from an NBA general manager, who’d been asked what he thought of the new collective bargaining agreement — not yet ratified but mostly agreed to — between the league and its players. "I think you better get the draft right," the text read.

The net effect of the change will be a reduction of star players on the free-agent market. If teams are able to tie up stars who used to come onto the market after seven or eight years — still in their prime — then teams seeking to rebuild through cap space and free agency will have fewer options.

That should bump up the value of draft picks. Teams like the Celtics, loaded with picks in the last few years and for the next two years, have had trouble trading for star players with picks as their bait. But the new contract rules should make picks more attractive in trades, since free agency will be a tougher way to rebuild.

So if the Knicks are not going to be built primarily through the upper half of the draft, what will be the primary way the team will improve? How will we obtain KP's sidekick? I am genuinely curious. :jbhmm:
 

DPresidential

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I don't understand the other side because the teams sucked for almost 2 straight decades yet a rebuild they couldn't take?

Is winning only 20 games instead of 30 that much worse?

If this was 2001 and we were just coming off of a decade of contending I could see why it would be hard for fans to digest but when you've been this bad for so long i don't understand being so against rebuilding when the win now approach CLEARLY has failed

And it's not just about tanking it's also about going young and giving the young players a shot and if losses come with it then so be it
See, Frump...

I have no issues with a rebuild. I've always wanted that, actually, especially when Amare kept disappointing us.

My thing has always been the actual definition of tanking. I'd have no issue with Phil saying yo, this experiment failed, you're going to be put into a bench role or reduced minutes so our youth play and we are happy to help you get to a team of your choice.

I'd be happy with the understanding that the oldest player on our team is 27 yr old Kuzminskas but the way I "fan" is always to get my hopes up for the roller coaster ride and hope for success, game to game.

I WANT a rebuild...I don't think it has to be like the 76ers method where game 82 the Knicks and the Nets are playing against each other next season and the game goes to the last shot and the loser will WIN the better losing record and my ass is at the edge of my seat... biting finger nails... on some...

00:04 sec Knicks down 1 :lupe:
00:04 sec Kuzminskas inbounds the ball

00:04 sec Kuz finds Porzingis on the perimeter :ohhh:
00:03 sec Porzingis dribbles and fakes a drive
00:02 sec Porzingis sees space and shoots the step back jumper :mjgrin:
00:01 sec The ball bounces twice off the rim :damn:
00:00 sec Ball drops through the basket Knicks Win :dahell::pacspit:


"fukk Porzingis we almost got the better pick!!":martin:

Even a draft where the general consensus is that only the no. 1 pick was going to possibly be the next Michael.


If I'm watching today... I want them to win...today. I want to root for them to win today. And if they lose, I hope luck falls in our favor that our losing will be soothed by a pick.

Brehs in here are not saying that they don't understand the general concept of a rebuild. That's why I constantly ask for all of the definitions of tanking.


 
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