The only time Minny ever blatantly tanked was right before the end of 07 and then traded KG. Their situation is 100% culture.Spurs tanked to get Duncan, Warriors tanked to get Barnes. Awful examples.
I know what you're getting at, but you didn't use good examples at all as 1) Kings never tanked. They're literally retarded, literally, and just never drafted well nor committed to anything outside of having Cousins. Wolves started tanking late, but tried rebuilding with Love and just never got to the playoffs although they were close. Again not tanking, just failing at what they were trying to achieve(which was the playoffs).
I do agree that tanking forever is bad all around though, creates a toxic environment for growth(as you mentioned) and there ain't no guarantee of getting that megastar you're looking for in the draft unless you land those first overall picks(as happy as I am that lakers keep getting 2nd overall, one first overall pick in the last 3 years would have been better than getting 3 2nd overalls.
What don't you get?
No, no at all.
Miami has a veteran Dragic and just signed a big deal to a 27 year old Hassan Whiteside.
I did not indicate having a solid veteran point guard running the point who has just been signed to a long term deal.
If it wasn't for Bosh's tragic situation, the Heat would have been playoff bound. They are not in a rebuild period.
I, an anti tanker, specifically mentioned rebuild and trading anyone over 22 years old. My thing is, reward the youth for being competitive and be transparent with fans that management is not trying to "put the worst product" on the court on some sabotage for lottery balls so when they pay for games no they know everyone in organization is committed to development of youth and a winning culture.
I'm sure you disagree with my strategy. That's cool because I want trying to persuade you; my issue is stop acting like an anti tanker Knick fan is an idiot who wants us to trade Porzingis for veterans and hates the word rebuild.
Youth would come through the draft(KP, Willy, Cleanthony Early, etc) , D league (Chasson Randle, Baker, Ndour, etc) and restricted free agency signings.
the bolded are totally unreliable forms of acquiring talent
Bro, you interpretedme being objective with me claiming all of the players are premier.the bolded are totally unreliable forms of acquiring talent
cleanthony isnt even in this franchise anymore....
most of those players i bolded...wont be on this team in 2 years....just willy probably....and you know why?....once we fill out this roster with actual first rounder talent they'll get the
what good basketball team is out here...without several first round draft picks in their starting lineup? dont say the spurs either...cause that will be debunked.
restricted free agents can get matched...and if the player is worth a damn...they will get matched...see otto porter in a few months.
That's unrealistic.
absolutely not. the reason we're in the position we are in...is cause we gave up picks to stay in mediocrity.Bro, you interpretedme being objective with me claiming all of the players are premier.
Those were examples of trial and error regarding prospects. Chill.
Everything about a rebuild is a gamble.
If you look at my original post regarding the plan, I'm really not as ridiculous a you paint anti-tankers to be.
I responded to a question of what would anti-tankers see as a valid, albeit not foolproof plan.
He asked me where would we get talent. Please don't tell me that in a rebuild, you believe a team sould have a goal of the entire roster being made out of lottery picks.
We just differ on intentional sabotage and promoting a competitive culture.
That was the point I was trying to make considering the stereotype is that an anti-tanker wants to resign Rose, sign veteran A and B and C and trade Porzingis for win now win now win now.
No. I just like not being heartbroken about hoping for great, enjoyable games and praising them whenever they win a game or two. Believe me, nikkas just want to have fun every game.
I don't know why you don't see that I want the same thing as you.absolutely not. the reason we're in the position we are in...is cause we gave up picks to stay in mediocrity.
taking flyers on past prime players and dangling picks is also a gamble...a gamble we've lost for 15 straight years
the first time we touched the lottery in forever we get KP....the best young player we've had in years. if we're in anti tank win now mode...we're not gonna get equal value for KP...but of course some of yal want to resign rose
KP is the best player on the team
back to the point....there is no fool proof plan for acquiring young talent...all i know is the best way to do that is to draft them in the first round. lotto or mid rounders.
we've failed at acquiring talent...over the last 16 years...you would think an anti tanker would see the simple elementary logic that is.... to try something different.
why is the bolded unrealistic? hypothetically...i want atleast 3 players acquired in the lottery....(we're about to get a 2nd this year and we're gonna get another one next year)...and you just gotta pray we hit on these next two picks.
The problem is that Dolan and for the most part Knicks fans have bought into this idea that NBA Players are DYING to play in a "BIG MARKET". Don't need the draft, just sign the top talent etc.absolutely not. the reason we're in the position we are in...is cause we gave up picks to stay in mediocrity.
taking flyers on past prime players and dangling picks is also a gamble...a gamble we've lost for 15 straight years
the first time we touched the lottery in forever we get KP....the best young player we've had in years. if we're in anti tank win now mode...we're not gonna get equal value for KP...but of course some of yal want to resign rose
KP is the best player on the team
back to the point....there is no fool proof plan for acquiring young talent...all i know is the best way to do that is to draft them in the first round. lotto or mid rounders.
we've failed at acquiring talent...over the last 16 years...you would think an anti tanker would see the simple elementary logic that is.... to try something different.
why is the bolded unrealistic? hypothetically...i want atleast 3 players acquired in the lottery....(we're about to get a 2nd this year and we're gonna get another one next year)...and you just gotta pray we hit on these next two picks.
i'm misconstruing what you're saying then.I don't know why you don't see that I want the same thing as you.
I concede what I've proposed has a lower probability of getting that no. 1 to 5 lotto pick.
In the last three years, had we not leveraged our pick for Bargnani, we are averaging a draft position of 6.
That's with all of the condescending statements y'all have about Knicks not being committed to a rebuild.
I'm literally saying, ONLY have youth, no superstar vets and reward competitive play to motivate our prospects to reach their potential and believe in a winning culture. They will win the games they can - fans will be happy to see the effort. They will lose most until they start to click so we'll be in the draft with solid position every year.
You seem to WANT to see some type of negativity with what I'm saying. Sorry if I'm wrong.
Okay, I guess you're right about what we define tanking as.i'm misconstruing what you're saying then.
you're saying....trot out young players...that will probably lose a lot of games...but not cause they're not trying...but because they're young
instead of doing the most extreme of tanking...and hypothetically...signing bad players intentionally...and just playing older bad players with the intention of losing
my definition of tanking is the former.
i think playing a shyt load of young players is tanking...because we've only have access to d league players and 2nd round players the last 5 years.
with me thinking that is tanking...i want the knicks to do that
we're just arguing about what we consider tanking
you literally just reiterated what i want the knicks to do just with more wordsOkay, I guess you're right about what we define tanking as.
Regarding the bolding:
NO breh.
There is no "intention to lose" thus there will be no trotting nor will there be paying and playing older players with the intention of losing.
If you go back to my original post, I indicated that the theme would be moving past the Melo era and NOT doing quick fix signings with the intent to focus our organization completely on our drafted and acquired young players - including a budding KP.
How:
Signing a coach long term - whether it be Horn or not - with full reign on how the game will be played so our developing players aren't in a state of confusion as to what we should look like game in and game out.
It means understanding that we won't be in playoff contention unless we miraculously find KP or some other guy is Lebron reincarnated. Therefore, in game, each possession will be a lesson for the prospects to learn from. Roster rotation will be based on effort and chemistry. Signings will be based on mentoring, chemistry and future building
This formula means we realistically aren't going to be anywhere near playoff level but our everyone in the organization will be expecting a roster that leaves blood, sweat, and tears on the court every night. It won't guarantee the no.1 pick but it isn't saying let's be on some bullshyt, either.
Where did you get signing bad players and intending to lose from what I've been saying? Secondly, with what I proposed, are you saying that's a terrible formula because it still isn't "tanking by any means necessary"?
Based on what I stated as my desire for this team
you literally just reiterated what i want the knicks to do just with more words
i said the "former"....you're taking the word "trot" way too seriously.
the only way younger players can develop is if they play a lot.
so "trotting" them out there...with the mentality that its ok to make mistakes...but you need to adjust and correct your mistakes.
what i was saying is...id rather put out a bunch of young players...than sign a bunch of over the hill older players that are just terrible.
thats what im thinking the anti-tank group is thinking what "tanking" means.
my definition of tanking and rebuilding isnt that extreme.
young players lose a lot....and im fine with that...and with that...you'll be able to draft a player near the top of the draft....that will fit in with the goals you're trying to achieve.
