My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[No_bammer_weed]

Who is talking about constantly tanking?

This is why language is important. Tanking and rebuilding arent interchangeable.

Tanking is the most extreme form of roster rebuilding.

When you commit to tanking, you are sending the franchise on a course where the expressed purpose is to put as bad of a product on the court as possible, with no reasonable hope to compete, and rest the hopes on ping pong balls bouncing our way in May. Thats not a plan. The only thing promised in the "process" is losses.

The draft is a lottery, so winning zero games doesnt even promise a number 3 pick.

Once you undertake a tanking effort there's no telling how long it will last. Look how many teams have been in lottery quicksand. The kings and Timberwolves have been doing this for over a decade with no end in sight.

KP is already frustrated and disgruntled, and condemning him to play with D-leaguers for the forseeable future isnt something that will make things better. He may be contractually committed to us for awhile, but that doesnt mean the relationship wont be toxic and he wont just resign strictly for the money.

When is the last time the spurs tanked? The warriors core of superstars is a mid-1st rounder, a late first rounder, and a second rounder. You dont need to tank to build something meaningful. Just good scouting, sound decision making, and establishing a stable culture.

I feel like the draft-express fetishizers prioritize masturbating over high end prospects every year than caring about winning.

 

[Frump]

This is why language is important. Tanking and rebuilding arent interchangeable.

Tanking is the most extreme form of roster rebuilding.

When you commit to tanking, you are sending the franchise on a course where the expressed purpose is to put as bad of a product on the court as possible, with no reasonable hope to compete, and rest the hopes on ping pong balls bouncing our way in May. Thats not a plan. The only thing promised in the "process" is losses.

The draft is a lottery, so winning zero games doesnt even promise a number 3 pick.

Once you undertake a tanking effort there's no telling how long it will last. Look how many teams have been in lottery quicksand. The kings and Timberwolves have been doing this for over a decade with no end in sight.

KP is already frustrated and disgruntled, and condemning him to play with D-leaguers for the forseeable future isnt something that will make things better. He may be contractually committed to us for awhile, but that doesnt mean the relationship wont be toxic and he wont just resign strictly for the money.

When is the last time the spurs tanked? The warriors core of superstars is a mid-1st rounder, a late first rounder, and a second rounder. You dont need to tank to build something meaningful. Just good scouting, sound decision making, and establishing a stable culture.

I feel like the draft-express fetishizers prioritize masturbating over high end prospects every year than caring about winning.

So the 7th pick is now a "mid first rounder" and the 11th pick is now a "late first rounder"

Some of u just make up shyt to excuse avoiding rebuilding

And the vast majority of all time greats who win multiple titles were picked at the very top. This idea that having a pick anywhere in the first round is as good at the top because a few great players were drafted late is assinine

Also u mention the Spurs a team who won 5 titles because they had an all time great in Duncan who they TANKED for

 

[ikbm]

This is why language is important. Tanking and rebuilding arent interchangeable.

Tanking is the most extreme form of roster rebuilding.

When you commit to tanking, you are sending the franchise on a course where the expressed purpose is to put as bad of a product on the court as possible, with no reasonable hope to compete, and rest the hopes on ping pong balls bouncing our way in May. Thats not a plan. The only thing promised in the "process" is losses.

The draft is a lottery, so winning zero games doesnt even promise a number 3 pick.

Once you undertake a tanking effort there's no telling how long it will last. Look how many teams have been in lottery quicksand. The kings and Timberwolves have been doing this for over a decade with no end in sight.

KP is already frustrated and disgruntled, and condemning him to play with D-leaguers for the forseeable future isnt something that will make things better. He may be contractually committed to us for awhile, but that doesnt mean the relationship wont be toxic and he wont just resign strictly for the money.

When is the last time the spurs tanked? The warriors core of superstars is a mid-1st rounder, a late first rounder, and a second rounder. You dont need to tank to build something meaningful. Just good scouting, sound decision making, and establishing a stable culture.

I feel like the draft-express fetishizers prioritize masturbating over high end prospects every year than caring about winning.

the kings have straight up poor management
the wolves have infinitely more talent on their roster than the current version of the knicks
the warriors core right now is a #7 pick, curry #11 pick klay #2 pick durant and the only anomaly is draymond....and before durant came through harrison barnes was also a lotto pick.
the knicks didnt have picks all through these shyt ass years....and thats why we are trotting d leaguers for KP to play with.
you're omitting pretty important details
is popovich not one of the greatest coaches of all time....do they not have the best player development in the league...have they not made savvy moves to acquire talent like trading george hill for kawhi?
this anti tank shyt is overdone....

 

[No_bammer_weed]

So the 7th pick is now a "mid first rounder" and the 11th pick is now a "late first rounder"

Some of u just make up shyt to excuse avoiding rebuilding

And the vast majority of all time greats who win multiple titles were picked at the very top. This idea that having a pick anywhere in the first round is as good at the top because a few great players were drafted late is assinine

Also u mention the Spurs a team who won 5 titles because they had an all time great in Duncan who they TANKED for

You're right. That sentence was a mental lapse. I meant to say Curry was a mid-lottery pick and Klay was a late lottery pick. And you helped answer my question about the spurs. The spurs tanked for one year, in 1997 and they've never stopped winning. A well run, smart, organizational structure is the real recipe for winning.

The point is that the warriors and spurs didnt have to lose 65 games to draft players like Curry, Klay, Kawhi, Parker, Genobli, etc, and there are plenty more examples where that came from. Like I said, I think people like you just have a tank fetish above all else.

 

[OneManGang]

So the 7th pick is now a "mid first rounder" and the 11th pick is now a "late first rounder"

Some of u just make up shyt to excuse avoiding rebuilding

And the vast majority of all time greats who win multiple titles were picked at the very top. This idea that having a pick anywhere in the first round is as good at the top because a few great players were drafted late is assinine

Also u mention the Spurs a team who won 5 titles because they had an all time great in Duncan who they TANKED for

Not to mention David Robinson. 1st overall pick. Smh

 

[Frump]

You're right. That sentence was a mental lapse. I meant to say Curry was a mid-lottery pick and Klay was a late lottery pick. And you helped answer my question about the spurs. The spurs tanked for one year, in 1997 and they've never stopped winning. A well run, smart, organizational structure is the real recipe for winning.

The point is that the warriors and spurs didnt have to lose 65 games to draft players like Curry, Klay, Kawhi, Parker, Genobli, etc, and there are plenty more examples where that came from. Like I said, I think people like you just have a tank fetish above all else.

Nobodies putting a number on losses were simply saying go young and get rid of veterans who won't be around when we're any good again.

This constant let's do whatever it takes to get an 8th seed type moves we've made for the past 15 years has gotten us nowhere.

Why not try rebuilding for once? We have no other avenue to collect assets but through the draft. Why not utilize it? And I don't mean a Sixers let's be bad for the next 5 years tank.

 

[ogc163]

Dudes giving impassioned rants about KP leaving, when the CBA effectively kills the chances of that happening. I mean unless KP meets a fly ass billionaire broad between now and the time his K is up, its just not happening. This is why folks end up being condescending throughout the season thread because elementary shyt is overlooked.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Nobodies putting a number on losses were simply saying go young and get rid of veterans who won't be around when we're any good again.

This constant let's do whatever it takes to get an 8th seed type moves we've made for the past 15 years has gotten us nowhere.

Why not try rebuilding for once? We have no other avenue to collect assets but through the draft. Why not utilize it? And I don't mean a Sixers let's be bad for the next 5 years tank.

But thats why I was saying earlier that tanking and rebuilding with youth arent one in the same.

If you say that the Knicks shouldnt sign an okayish, non impact player like jrue holiday, Teague, or an equivalent to a big deal in a desperate attempt to fight for the 'offs next year I agree with you. Thats haphazard, counterproductive to long term growth, and not smart.

But Im equally opposed to tanking. Its straight bytchassness that rests all our faith in mathematical luck and chance, and not organizational skill. We already have a high lotto pick, who many consider a budding franchise star, a good young piece in Willy, and a mid-lotto pick on the way. Why do we need to tank?

 

[qnsfinest]

Dudes giving impassioned rants about KP leaving, when the CBA effectively kills the chances of that happening. I mean unless KP meets a fly ass billionaire broad between now and the time his K is up, its just not happening. This is why folks end up being condescending throughout the season thread because elementary shyt is overlooked.

KP ain't going anywhere voluntarily, if he ever does go to another team which I doubt, it will be a trade or Sign and trade. He's not leaving millions and the nightlife that is NY. You can already tell he is in awe of what NYC brings.

He needs to chill and take it back a little. Don't be labeled as a diva. You're still a very young player who hasn't accomplished shyt yet.

 

[ISO]

You can't assume he wouldn't leave money on the table though

Some players do value happiness and winning

 

[Frump]

.

. We already have a high lotto pick, who many consider a budding franchise star, a good young piece in Willy, and a mid-lotto pick on the way. Why do we need to tank?

Because teams like the Celtics and maybe Sixers are gonna be loaded for the next decade

KP is our one big piece Willys cool but probably a bench player on a good team and who knows what the 8th pick will be. That's not enough to contend for the future we need a lot more

 

[Derek Lee]

You can't assume he wouldn't leave money on the table though

Some players do value happiness and winning

Besides Greg Monroe, name another notable lottery pick who accepted the qualifying offer as a RFA. And Monroe wasn't declining hundreds of millions guaranteed.

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

You can't assume he wouldn't leave money on the table though

Some players do value happiness and winning

Sure, but If he took the qualifying offer next year, it would be unprecedented for a budding young star I think. Securing that first big contract as soon as possible and making sure you're unfathomably rich for the rest of your life takes priority for a lot of players. Who knows what could happen that year after you take the qualifying offer? What injuries could occur? Not to mention, you get more money than ever for signing with the team that drafted you, so much that I can't see anybody walking away from it. Losing sucks, but I have to imagine that money makes a lot off issues go away, and you can always chase wins after the contract ends. Who knows, KP could leave, but I'd be willing to take my chances that it doesn't happen. If he does though, just contract the Knicks, fukk it(joke)

 

[I.V.]

This is why language is important.

I think you are stuck on semantics because you want something to argue about. Nobody here is saying lose forever and sign trash players.

Even the "tanking" crowd, in this thread, are merely arguing for a cohesive rebuilding strategy, that brings in young players and future assets, instead of vets that can't cut it anymore.

The Knicks tanked for one season, and got porzingis. Then got thirsty, traded for a brokend own vet, signed a broken down vet, and ended up with the 8th pick, plus an albatross contract to Joakim Noah.

I would personally rather have Robin Lopez, even if he's only playing 20-25 minutes a night, due to small ball, than this passed season of D-rose, and three more years of Noah. That was a stupid plan.

What they need to do is come to grips with the fact that this team isn't going to be a playoff team next season, but make investments that could pay dividends over the next 2-3 seasons.

If that is a melo trade, cool. But not for like, reddikk and crawford, that doesn't do anything for us. At that point, just keep melo, let him play with KP, and continue to work together, since they have a bond, and move forward.

If you can get some future firsts, or a first and a young player for him, then you make a decision there.

I'd probably part with courtney lee for a 1st. He's a useful role player on a winner, but is wasting his time on this team.

Take a look at the FA class from the perspective of buying low/upside, rather than BPA-and-max-him-out.

Put together a team that plays hard, competes, grows a little, and by the time next offseason rolls around, maybe you now have 3-4 future pieces that you can really build around. KP, Wily, Frank [insert two players or so].

The problem is: When you suck, AND you don't have a bunch of assets to trade, there is no quick fix. You gotta slog it out over the course of 2-3 years.

People seem to forget, because this team was trash last season, that they DID NOT TRY TO LOSE. They just lost, because they sucked.

 

[Wargames]

Because teams like the Celtics and maybe Sixers are gonna be loaded for the next decade

KP is our one big piece Willys cool but probably a bench player on a good team and who knows what the 8th pick will be. That's not enough to contend for the future we need a lot more

exactly. Some of it needs to be gathering of younger assets as well. Gotta make some trades for vets for youth or vets for picks. Throw money at guys like Tony Snell cause he is young and has upside.