My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[DPresidential]

those are conflicting statistics....and if statistics conflict...as basic as this sounds i go with what my eye tells me.
melo doesnt stop the ball nearly as much cause derrick rose has the ball more...and is seen in his eyes as someone worth deferring to.
when melo gets the ball in his spot...and makes his first move...the shot is going up regardless. there is no creation for someone else after that...its either a make or a miss. while melo has go-to moves and creativity for his isolation attempts...it rarely helps out the team. there are no drive and kicks with him...and thats fine cause he's a small forward...not everyone can be lebron.
rose entire game is off the drive..........but he doesnt kick effectively....which is really bad for a point guard....especially if your outside shot isnt great

Nah..breh, you're the breh, but NAH.

When stats conflict, we dig deeper and try to find out who's been lazy with their article and filling it with fluff.


What's weird is, the writer seems to gain a few brownie points for stating the obvious... "Knicks need to play a more fluid and organic sharing based offense."

But she is looking real funny in the light considering she seems to completely disregard any of the significant variables that may make her evidence look REAL SUS.

Again, she could be right.

But I'm not accepting the "eye test" from the more analytical contingent of the thread.

Matter fact, the throw an assist to our breh @ogc163 -who posted an informative article detailing the triangle:

With diagrams that showed the triangle in action SUCCESFULLY:

This example, of course, does not work out this 100% of the time, but the main take away from this should be the first automatic being the pass to the post. Here are two examples of the Knicks executing variations of the basic Triangle actions well against the Wizards:






We notice... [drum roll]
nikkas....ain't... Breh, the nikkas aren't dribbling at ALL. They aren't moving with the ball AT ALL. This is how the triangle works...successfully. THAT has nothing to do with Melo & Rose considering the writer decided to show Melo's picture.


And breh, OGC163, please let me know if I'm misquoting you or your article.

Now for me to get in my feels

Brehs, that article is some fukk boy shyt. It's lazy and the writer thought those who would read it wouldn't question her lazy evidence. Agauin, her premise is correct, however, her use of dribbles per touches and her deduction are low-key TERRIBLE writing.

Someone made a joke about @I.V. possibly being the writer. That's not a good look, actually.

 

[I.V.]

Breh,

I absolutely understood and respect every poster in here enough to fully read any post I reply to.

Never said it had a negative connotation. I was simply questioning whether you see the "feels" you discovered in that post different than others and is that why you needed to point this.... harmless thing out again?

I just think people's feelings are, and have been clouding what is plainly obvious. I have been openly discarding the feelings, because addressing them has led to more posts about how people feel about: me, tanking, melo, kp, phil, three point shooting, CNN's 20th anniversary of The War Report - etc etc etc.

And this thread has turned into people being upset the team is tanking, or more accurately: upset that people are HAPPY the team is tanking. When really, this was their only option. And yes, there are people taking some weird glee that melo failed here, some of them are knick fans, but most of them aren't - and even the ones who ride with the team, are mainly celebrating a pivot toward the future. The thing is, they're right. Melo's time here was a failure. They never got him a supporting cast that could, well, support him. And he was not good enough to overcome the roster and the failures of management on his own.

Basically, he wasn't a transformational, transcendent, franchise-altering superstar. But really, most of us know that, I think. I liked him because I thought he played hard, wanted to win, it was fun to watch somebody who was legitimately great at basketball, and he's a proud black man doing what the fukk he wants, when the fukk he wants. That shyt to me is very important as a basketball fan, in a way it probably isn't for a lot of my fellow yakoubians.

I love basketball. I played it at a pretty high level. I've covered it at the highest levels. I've coached, I've worked for and with NBA coaches. And on top of that, I'm just an analytical breh, breh. I like to take things apart, put them back together. I like to see how things come together, and trace them back and watch it happen, then watch them fall apart. So I love the game on the court, but I also love the idea of putting together rosters, schemes, strategies, fitting out lineups, seeing guys adjust to each other, grow, age, devolve, etc.

And in the end: It is cool to root for a team however you want. That's a you thing, right? Pick players, or pick teams, or pick cities, or even styles of play and coaches - and rock with them. I work in news and politics right now, and it's kind of the same way. People have politicians, or parties, or groups they support. If you're a conservative or a republican or an evangelical zionist -- cool. We can have a conversation, I can respect a set of beliefs.

I can NOT get with, is somebody arguing to stick with failed policies. Don't come to me with your feelings, if what we're talking about is how to fix the team. Come to me with a strategy that has some kind of track record.

And as people INSIST on arguing for a strategy that does not work, or CAN not work -- then I start to clown that, because clearly there IS something personal that is leading a person to be stuck on ... well, stupid.


Also, it's the internet. I type 250 words a minute, and I can bang out an articulated post, with a bunch of jokes in the time most people spend trying to pick a smiley. That's not a brag at all, it's just why I'll sometimes hammer out a "novel" - without realizing it. (as I just did here)

 

[ikbm]

Nah..breh, you're the breh, but NAH.

When stats conflict, we dig deeper and try to find out who's been lazy with their article and filling it with fluff.


What's weird is, the writer seems to gain a few brownie points for stating the obvious... "Knicks need to play a more fluid and organic sharing based offense."

But she is looking real funny in the light considering she seems to completely disregard any of the significant variables that may make her evidence look REAL SUS.

Again, she could be right.

But I'm not accepting the "eye test" from the more analytical contingent of the thread.

Matter fact, the throw an assist to our breh @ogc163 -who posted an informative article detailing the triangle:

With diagrams that showed the triangle in action SUCCESFULLY:

you're saying this...like the team didnt have an internal crisis about what offense they're going to run most of the time.
they might run a triangle play correctly out of a timeout 3-4 times a game....then its just rose asking for a pick and melo asking for a pick a lot
the writer of the article is a man btw

 

[DPresidential]

you're saying this...like the team didnt have an internal crisis about what offense they're going to run most of the time.
they might run a triangle play correctly out of a timeout 3-4 times a game....then its just rose asking for a pick and melo asking for a pick a lot
the writer of the article is a man btw

my bad.

Again, her evidence is fugazi.

 

[ikbm]

my bad.

Again, her evidence is fugazi.

i'll try to interpret what that dribble and seconds per touch shyt really means
point guards and main ball handlers are at the top of the league in that statistic cause they simply have the ball more
when melo gets the ball...he's hellbent on scoring more often than not. not facilitating. so that makes him a lot easier to defend...if you know the shot is coming eventually.
melo being 12th in points per touch doesnt mean a whole lot...we all know he can score (and im willing to bet he was top 5 in his prime)...cause if a play is called for the knicks to score without melo....he wont get the ball...example...with those sets we run to get kp a post touch or a mid range shot..or a screen for lee to get a 3 pointer....or even post play. ...hell even that play where kyle o quinn catches holiday back cutting.
we run a lot of 1 option sets.....once we get the shot we want we take it.
how often do we see the knick swing the ball around the perimeter like say the san antonio spurs?...where everyone touches the ball in a possession? rarely ever.

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

Also, it's the internet. I type 250 words a minute, and I can bang out an articulated post, with a bunch of jokes in the time most people spend trying to pick a smiley. That's not a brag at all, it's just why I'll sometimes hammer out a "novel" - without realizing it. (as I just did here)

I can only type 70 wpm, what kind of finger dexterity

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

Clearing a bit of cap room this off-season and throwing a max at Otto Porter or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, worth it or nah?

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

I'm extremely pleased to here that.

I love this boy too much to see him walk away on some Nancy Sinatra shyt.



If you're a fan of a team, there are feels to be had. You're classification of what I commented as being "feels" is unnecessary if you take into consideration the instigation that posters who incessantly post useless anti-melo comments are also these "feels" that you're talking about.

Unless you believe what I wrote is at some I.V determined tier of emotions that is different from the typical anti- melo and "let's be condescending on those who don't agree with tanking" feels. You tend to agree with those individuals on this forum more often than not so I'm assuming you're just biased. Okay.

What you described as feels was essentially me detailing that this circus of a thread is double sided and Napier isn't doing his best blood-thirsty money making mitch [Should have won an Oscar for that] impression because of the possibility of a rebuild; it's because he's being goaded by people who are just as combative - if not more - than he is.

Combing this thread or any past Knicks thread, there is just no overwhelming rhetoric of constant NO REBUILD PROTEST than keeps being used as a punch line about the fanbase, breh. Even most of the ant-tank brehs were asking questions trying to understand it better.

You're a seemingly smart young man, but you're feeling yourself too much, breh.

I implore you to listen to Kendrick's new track - Humble



@I.V. Don't be Big Sean, breh. I hope you can be better than that.


[This post was 43% feels]

One of my favorite movies of ALL TIME.

Breh,

I absolutely understood and respect every poster in here enough to fully read any post I reply to.

Never said it had a negative connotation. I was simply questioning whether you see the "feels" you discovered in that post were different than others and is that why you needed to point this.... harmless thing out again?

We both agree it's an understood dynamic, right? Aight, cool.

What about it was feelings, though? I'm not commenting on the Knicks, I'm commenting on behavior in a thread. I was giving, or attempting to give an objective observation on why this Coli breh Napier is heated.

So with that, I'm not understanding you, since you're saying you're not trolling.

Fam, you don't have to do all that. I have my opinion on how the Knicks should go onward, and they have theirs. NOBODY on this site works for the Knicks fron office, so their ideas mean just as much as mine, which is jack sh*t. They keep talking about feelings, yet are getting so mad & resorting to personal attacks because I don't agree with them, and saying I'm dead wrong. I've stated before, all they got to do is put me on ignore & they won't have to waste their time seeing or replying to my opinions on posts. Sh*t don't bother me b

 

[DPresidential]

@Mr. Jack Napier

My nikka,

I feel you, b. I do.

I feel you, I know you don't need me debating for you and I know brehs are going to be on some funny shyt anyway....


But breh...I love debate...I love intense discussion. I love calling brehs out on some fukk shyt.

I try to think, you know? What would I be without the debate game? It's why I became an attorney, b. The feeling of going back and forth in this marketplace of ideas with mature nikkas... And then making fukk nikkas feel some type of way when they think they are smarter than me, you know?




I can't stop...cuz....

My man Nap bout to get that rep. Paid in Full is top for me

 

[RickyGQ]

Clearing a bit of cap room this off-season and throwing a max at Otto Porter or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, worth it or nah?

If we got rid of Melo, Lee and let Rose walk, we could afford both, (both will be long shots cause the nets are all in on the RFA market and Wiz probably will match any offer).

 

[I.V.]

If we got rid of Melo, Lee and let Rose walk, we could afford both.

I don't think KCP is worth the investment, and I think OTTO gets matched no matter what. I'd be happy to have him, but we're probably better off looking for bargains/role players/guys with potential who are low risk gambles.

 

[mbewane]

This is so weird to me.

And @ikbm I agree with you about numbers not lying...but the person using the numbers can.

Again, I'm just want objectivity.

I remember this post:



Something is fishy unless someone can rectify which of these are the more accurate picture.

To be honest, though, "dribbles per touch"? [What the fukk does that really even mean??]


And for more light shedding:




Numbers don't lie right?

I'm a layman, trying to understand. Can anyone who dapped that post help me understand all of this?

I dunno much about all that, but it seems it's three different things : how long a player holds the ball , how long a player dribbles, and how often a player touches the ball

When Melo holds the ball (I understand it as "not dribbling"), he can be in triple threat, and I have a feeling it keeps the entire defense aware because he's as likely to shoot, dribble or pass. But when he starts dribbling, quite often he's dribbling to get a rythm before shooting, so the defense can adjust to that (and it somewhat makes his teamates less of a threat).

"Touch the ball" doesn't mean much imo, because it's the same whether he dribbles the ball on some Iso-Melo before launching a long contested two pointer or whether it's a quick catch and shoot coming off a screen, and we all know he's much more efficient on the latter shot. But both count as a "touch".

 

[Wargames]

You guys are debating ball touching stats

that's where we are right now

Man at the end of the season dead this thread and lets get a new one started its already run its course

 

[DPresidential]

i'll try to interpret what that dribble and seconds per touch shyt really means
point guards and main ball handlers are at the top of the league in that statistic cause they simply have the ball more
when melo gets the ball...he's hellbent on scoring more often than not. not facilitating. so that makes him a lot easier to defend...if you know the shot is coming eventually.
melo being 12th in points per touch doesnt mean a whole lot...we all know he can score (and im willing to bet he was top 5 in his prime)...cause if a play is called for the knicks to score without melo....he wont get the ball...example...with those sets we run to get kp a post touch or a mid range shot..or a screen for lee to get a 3 pointer....or even post play. ...hell even that play where kyle o quinn catches holiday back cutting.
we run a lot of 1 option sets.....once we get the shot we want we take it.
how often do we see the knick swing the ball around the perimeter like say the san antonio spurs?...where everyone touches the ball in a possession? rarely ever.

Again, A+ on everything you said. I do agree.

My point is the writer did not successfully articulate his premise through his evidence. Again, I'm speaking from a layman's perspective, but I'm not stupid. In this day and age, we need to CLOSELY examine what writers push us to consume - from current events to history to sports.

The writer is absolutely right regarding the title of his book titled "We Need To Share the Ball" however, what's written in the pages is lazy and suspect fluff.

If you are going to speak from a credible position, that means you take into consideration the other variables that might skew your data.

Instead of going in depth while burning that midnight oil, he seemingly said "fukk it" and published the article.

You admitted yourself that the data that I presented - if credible - and the data that the writer presented which literally is "we'll call dribbles per second" somehow don't vibe.

He mentions NOTHING of how he was able to separate the lack of ball dribble in triangle sets throughout the year - successful or not. This is a MAJOR flaw in his reasoning.

What does he do? He goes back to the "Melo is a blackhole" trope that seems to conflict with other statistics that indicate Melo is not as "stickum hands" as he presents.

Melo is #141 in seconds per touch, which is not strong evidence of his classification of Melo being a "black hole". Also, he avg 2.8 seconds of time per possession in 16-17.

Again, we aren't talking basketball here, we are talking presentation of evidence. In an attempt to present a complicated premise in a no. blurb trying to find an easy scapegoat for the Knicks overall deficiencies, the writer tried to combine two statistics and somehow force puzzle pieces.

Only reason I'm focusing on this is because of the Statistics don't lie. They do.

Sidenote: Read this book -

Great book on how statistics can be used.

If the writer wanted to say that on a tweet, that would be cool...But to publish an article like that is an insult to his readers..

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

@Mr. Jack Napier

My nikka,

I feel you, b. I do.

I feel you, I know you don't need me debating for you and I know brehs are going to be on some funny shyt anyway....


But breh...I love debate...I love intense discussion. I love calling brehs out on some fukk shyt.

I try to think, you know? What would I be without the debate game? It's why I became an attorney, b. The feeling of going back and forth in this marketplace of ideas with mature nikkas... And then making fukk nikkas feel some type of way when they think they are smarter than me, you know?




I can't stop...cuz....

My man Nap bout to get that rep. Paid in Full is top for me

You my mans 100 grand,

I respect that fact that you debating these clowns & getting the f*ck n*ggas out of here because

They can call me "emotional" & say "i'm in my feelings", I'm still going to say what I gotta say & get these f*ck n*ggas out of here as well

And they, can keep mentioning me, I got no problems pulling up

& giving cats that work