My NYC Black Folk......Gentrification

[Francis White]

man, I'm in Astoria.. not rich, not poor, generally safe, people of all cultures... and these people still wanna take it over..

just cause its slightly more affordable than what they got over there in manhattan and brooklyn. something that pisses me off because my area is so beautiful, and in the last 5-10 years they've been destroying regular buildings and putting up massive brick monstrosities that they call 'luxury apartments'... it hasnt bothered any of our blocks personally cause people are well-entrenched here and the projects are... that-a way ->>>>> but still. even the main street for shopping has generic ass sushi and coffee spots opening up. these people are all the same.

they tried to close down two local schools, probably to put up some housing of the variety and i'm glad that didnt happen (even though these kids from the lower income area of the place are the root of the problem and its not a coincidence safety at my old high school dipped like fukk recently). im just wondering though, will they stop at these "luxury buildings" or continue digging at the heart?

people are creating their own problems here, which only gives developers and politicians ammunition to clean the place out in a "legal" way

I lived on 30th ave for 5 years was all time favorite spot in Astoria, tried moving back 4 years and the rent had sky high, to be honest the area had been well on its way to be gentrified as far back as 2001 because i know i was the only black living on 30th ave by the hospital, the project guys had a hike getting to their spots from the train but the area was cool, to this day i try get over there once a week to hit my panini spot and the thai spot on 30th. What High school closed, not my old school St. John's Prep?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I made SURE not to say "the corner" because of the negative attributes I knew you'd reach for. Yet, you couldn't help yourself.

I'm sorry, but these newbies don't hang out with people around the way and stay to themselves. That doesn't solely comprise of hanging out on the corner, but hey....who didn't know you'd go "there"?

I asked you who are you speaking for?

I gave an example of MY experience at 95 South, visiting there twice, being just as much a stranger to the people there as any of the people you're speaking about and met no animosity. So again, who are you speaking for and their experiences at 95 South? YOURSELF

Ask most people around the way and they'll tell you that these newbies keep it moving or walk in tiny little packs amongst themselves. I'm not patron saint of BK, but don't front like you spent your time in BK trying to get to know your neighbors beyond having your bike taken.


Hold up. So it didn't count when it was happening at a worse degree when I lived there, now that a few are facing a minutia of that experience, they and they alone are the ones "often" victims of crimes out in "Prospect Heights?"



Underhill has been dangerous before a newbie stepped foot there. Just because these thugs have proven to be equal opportunity criminals, why is it that it didn't effect the communal spirit people had amongst each other when I was there compared to now? shyt...most of the victims in that link you sent are of the locals, not the newbies!!

You're making excuses for them staying to themselves.

The resentment is a byproduct of their isolation and keeping to themselves, period. I was with my wife at a sports bar in BK this past Sunday, and my boy Marlon happened to be there with a bunch of his new neighbors. The only ink spot amongst them. Why is it that its never the other way around where some newbie decides to chill with the locals? It's always us that expected to chill with them which we're good for but its NEVER the other way around. Oh yeah....all the locals reflect the type of niqqas that stole your bike. So that justifies keeping to themselves as you've advocated.

You are not making a lot of sense to me.

Again, "newbies" chill with "locals" regularly. Where or how or in what ratio doesn't matter. When it gets warm go to Franklin Park and see what I am talking about. So your basic premise that these people choose to isolate themselves is patently false.

And the shyt I said about 95 South was based on my experiences, as well as many others. I didn't feel out of place, but others did, and service was very varied depending on who you were. I suppose you will blame that on the outsiders as well

 

[Silky Johnson]

I clearly stated that gentrification in of itself is mostly economical with the racial aspect of it being coincidental. However, your example would be countered with this: when Blacks and Hispanics moved to these neighborhoods and made em our own (or whatever race or ethnicity you wanna use) what did they have before that? That's the fear of gentrification, being forced out of your comfort zone or home and having nothing to look forward to and worse, nothing to come back to. It's in a way institutionalized displacement.

White flight is why we took the neighborhoods, not forced displacement.

Not enough people understand this. Now these same families that left, want to come back because gas prices, tolls and traffic make their 1 hour commute uncomfortable so they wanna take the subway for 15 minutes into work.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Spoken like a cac/uncle ruckus ass nikka who isn't affected by any of this. If you're a low income person and your landlord send you a notice that your rent is going up 100% in 30 days, what you gonna do? You pick up and go or have the sheriff's put ur shyt on the curb. If you are on Section 8 and the landlord says "fukk it, we don't accept that anymore", you go where the hell the program sends you. Don't act like nikkas in these situations have choices in the matter.

But fukk boys like you think as long as you don't have money, your opinion doesn't count anyway and shrug shyt off.

Its def very important to not be dismissive of the people being displaced. Its a serious issue dude has trivialized time and time again. He is on the profitable side of gentrification so he has to put that spin on it for his own sanity.

I clearly stated that gentrification in of itself is mostly economical with the racial aspect of it being coincidental. However, your example would be countered with this: when Blacks and Hispanics moved to these neighborhoods and made em our own (or whatever race or ethnicity you wanna use) what did they have before that? That's the fear of gentrification, being forced out of your comfort zone or home and having nothing to look forward to and worse, nothing to come back to. It's in a way institutionalized displacement.

White flight is why we took the neighborhoods, not forced displacement.

The point is NYC neighborhoods always change. Whites ran from the inner city and now are moving back, largely due to forces beyond their control.

The folks in the neighborhoods being displaced had the misfortune of not being able to buy properties. Fair enough. But the whites moving into these areas aren't the ones driving the change. And despite Reb's repeated assertions otherwise do not come in seeking to bulldoze the feel + culture of wherever they live and ignore who + whatever was there.

 

[NYC Rebel]

You are not making a lot of sense to me.

Again, "newbies" chill with "locals" regularly. Where or how or in what ratio doesn't matter. When it gets warm go to Franklin Park and see what I am talking about. So your basic premise that these people choose to isolate themselves is patently false.

And the shyt I said about 95 South was based on my experiences, as well as many others. I didn't feel out of place, but others did, and service was very varied depending on who you were. I suppose you will blame that on the outsiders as well

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I see how this works now. You win Reb, history is yours to rewrite.

 

[NYC Rebel]

I clearly stated that gentrification in of itself is mostly economical with the racial aspect of it being coincidental. However, your example would be countered with this: when Blacks and Hispanics moved to these neighborhoods and made em our own (or whatever race or ethnicity you wanna use) what did they have before that? That's the fear of gentrification, being forced out of your comfort zone or home and having nothing to look forward to and worse, nothing to come back to. It's in a way institutionalized displacement.

White flight is why we took the neighborhoods, not forced displacement.

You see it.

How can one parallel the change of the neighborhood afrom when we moved in and to the changes we see now as one and the same WITHOUT seeing the differences in HOW it was done?

 

[NYC Rebel]

I see how this works now. You win Reb, history is yours to rewrite.

I'm sorry, but in your writings about living in my old hood, I find it hard to believe that you were ever comfortable there until more folks like you came around.

 

[the next guy]

Go above East 180th street on the 2/5 if you want to

Them boys don't play past Mott Ave on the A Train either

TY breh.

 

[Liquid]

This is what I'm saying. Its def not as simple as just economics, but economics played a part of it. @NYCRebel , @tremonthustler , if you were a landlord of one of these buildings, what would you do? And should "BK/BX newbies" be allowed to move into "your" boroughs at all?

Keep in mind, once upon a time these folks would have or DID live in places like Park Slope, LES, shyt maybe even TriBeCa or Dumbo.... and they got priced out of there by the likes of Robert DeNiro. So the idea that this is some culture theft conspiracy, and not just people looking for a place to live they can afford, is pretty much 95% bogus. Yea when these folks move in they change the neighborhood, but so did the first of us who came to these neighborhoods... you think Nostrand Ave was lined with jerk spots, liquor stores, barber shops and West African import/export centers in the 50s

We need to stop looking at this through an "us vs them" lens and look at it through a cause + effect lens. Just like I say in those "fukk black women" threads there's no value in breaking down something as complex as the black family dynamic or gentrification into something as dishonestly simple as "victim/oppressor"

There are def a lot of factors beyond our control in these neighborhoods, but I don't think folks are being honest/fair in qualifying the intentions of many of those behind the forces.

Here we go again with you trying to downplay something that is really not that complex at all. Economics is #1 ...EASY all that other nonsense you are spewing are just accessories to the problems going on in the last few communities left in the all the boroughs except for the BX.

Listen, I was born and raised in Washington Heights and did not feel all that much threatened while I lived there. The community has been building from what I have been told by my grandma/mom and a couple of older uncles for decades. A large percentage of the population that lived/lives out there are immigrants or legal with very limited education and or resources. SO what has happened in the past 20 years? The stock of Washington Heights began to rise because it has become one of the last few communities in Manhattan and people for the most part have been able to deal with the steady rising cost, but the past 11 years or so (post 9/11) there has been this great push in which corporations and landlords who own the retail spaces have increased their prices at alarming rates. Why? It's due to the demand which forces even some long standing establishments to move out.

Now why do I bring in all this bs? Its to preface the fact that MOST of those neighborhoods, such as the rougher parts of old brooklyn, harlem, the bronx, and other places were destinations that THEY FELT WERE UNDESIRABLE in the past. I don't usually quote 2pac, but I remember him saying that the ghetto is not even ours...its just what is left of what society wants no part of at this time. Those words could not be any more accurate to my fellow new yorkers today. Now one can bring the argument that why don't we do something about it? In a twisted fukked up way I think we do...we tend to fall for the same traps everyone else does in where everything is so cutthroat and as a result violence does occur. In turn? The media and local officials look at us as a lost cause for a couple of decades...once the community starts to stabilize, start generating wealth, cleaned up...then we are pushed out. There really is no other way to put it.. @NYC Rebel and his story about his sister and the apartment are things many minorities are going through as real estate companies start seeing the potential and will PAY US to move out of places WE BUILT UP. My grandma was offered 10K for her apartment I think back in 2003.

I see a couple of heads pointing to our economic decisions, but I think its more of a product of where we are and have been since this country started. For example, Jose who owns a bodega on the corner can be the stingiest dude in the neighborhood...spends his money wisely, invests smart, and doesn't go above his head and has slowly been able to build a considerable amount of wealth compared to many of our peers. His lease is up next year tho and word is that the prices are going to skyrocket as a result of the neighborhood now being an attractive place for young couples to look at.

Landlords know this and you guessed it...have priced it ridiculously high compared to what Jose has been paying that he cannot possibly afford it. So what happens? You guessed it...7-Eleven or one of those highly established chains come in to take over. 7-Eleven has been an establishment since the 1920's...there is NO WAY any small local business from the heights or neighborhoods in the outer boroughs can compete...those companies are in a position in where they can take a loss for a decade+ if they have to so that they can reap in the rewards for generations to come. NOTHING Jose could have done in his 20+ years as a smart business owner could have prepared him for that...why? Because not only was he in a placed that was considered undesirable, but his profits could not have been as much as some of these big companies earn in the other locations due to the economic position of the people living there IN THE FIRST PLACE.

That's why your argument of Jerk spots, liquor stores, barber shops, and African import centers really can't be brought in because damn near 100% of those establishments were brought up when all of OUR neighborhoods were considered undesirable.

Wait, did you think NYU students were lining up to the subway to get to Nostrand Avenue in the 50's-80's?
Do you think the dominicans in Washington Heights asked for the Starbucks over the small dominican spots that were there?

Is it fukked up? Yeah it is, is it something that if I was a landlord I would be taking advantage of? Possibly, but to somewhat think that they are not looking at our neighborhoods once they have been brought up BY OUR OWN PEOPLE like to try to make it their own is a bit irresponsible on your part. I see it happening here where I live in a couple of decades as the population continues to expand and upper/middle class are looking for a possible investment down the line.

 

[jilla82]

This thread can be summed up with....
...If your money isnt right you're just a victim.


Black, White, Hispanic...it doesnt matter...If you have no money you are at the mercy of those that do.
You cant be mad at people moving in when the price is right.

 

[ogc163]

How Black Gentrifiers Have Affected the Perception of Chicago's Changing Neighborhoods - Neighborhoods - The Atlantic Cities

 

[Liquid]

To add a bit more to my previous post. I specifically highlighted 7-Eleven, Starbucks, and other big establishments because you have a large percentage of the population who won't even trust a small company such as Jose's Bodega because the name is not out there. I live in Lexington right now and what is it that we see all around? Starbucks, Chili's, McDonald's, Burger King, Papa John's, Walgreens, Walmart, Target, Meijer, Gamestop, and other big chains. WHY? I have had longtime residents here flat out tell me that they don't see how so many people in New York can just trust some person selling sandwiches, hot dogs, and other things in a corner...their whole mentality is still based on the fact that if I had an option to order a whole pizza from Papa John's over Liquid's Pizza Shop...they will always go to Papa Johns because its established and has a somewhat solid reputation. They won't even give me a chance unless I have to put it at a DEEP discount which I might not be in a position to do.

Go to the rougher spots? More of the local/family owned spots start showing up...they have no clue on what a community is. They look at a small establishment with a perception that if they don't have a big name in the city then its something that they are either not doing right or just not as good as the big chains. THAT is what made NYC unique and that is being lost...in fact I heard a couple of days ago people crying foul for 7-Eleven being opened somewhere near midtown...folks like @She Agree That I'm Looney just won't understand. Do you know why Bank of America sticks out like a sore thumb on 171st street over the Banco Popular that was there before? Do you think that the local Pharmacy which is owned by a local resident is going to be able to fork up the kinda cash that can be earned by a place like Walgreens?

Do you think people in Lexington would go to @NYC Rebel and his hair loss center for black men? Or would they go to a spot that is backed by Supercuts that claims to help with hair loss for black men? Think about that...that's what NYC is losing and it fukking sucks.

edit: Actually, I take some of that bolded back. We as minorities are a little more open to local spots even out here, but still have some people look at spots like that with the face on.

 

[69 others]

I'm sorry, but in your writings about living in my old hood, I find it hard to believe that you were ever comfortable there until more folks like you came around.

I don't think he ever went there he was scared right @She Agree That I'm Looney i mean cool the kid

 

[ogc163]

This thread can be summed up with....
...If your money isnt right you're just a victim.


Black, White, Hispanic...it doesnt matter...If you have no money you are at the mercy of those that do.
You cant be mad at people moving in when the price is right.

I don't know about being a "victim", Politicians AND various interest groups were warned for decades that the housing policies in New York City were ass backwards and would come back to bite them in the ass. Unless you find some economist attached to an interest group you would be hard pressed to find sincere intellectual support for the policies prevalent in New York City. When you take away incentive to build new housing up for the poor/middle class and constrain supply for so long you shouldn't be shocked and awed when they only come in and focus on upper middle class renters.