Martial arts training thread (boxing, karate, whatever)?

[Julius Skrrvin]

Distinctions from traditional MT and Muay Boran and whatever is being applied to MMA at the moment are irrelevant.

All that needs to be said is that Muay Thai has a lot of elements that are very useful to a shorter or stockier guy.

 

[The Real]

All that needs to be said is that Muay Thai has a lot of elements that are very useful to a shorter or stockier guy.

Of course. That wasn't the point of my post, though. We aren't disagreeing on that. As for irrelevance, I think relevant for someone making a decision about what style of fighting to learn. They can learn the MT techniques that are relevant to them from an MMA-oriented gym without wasting their time on the other techniques if they don't have the body type for it.

I personally trained more traditional because it suits me, and actually made the jump from more MMA-style Muay Thai. That distinction was very relevant for my own experience, and honestly, I wish I had made the switch earlier.

 

[Mowgli]

Are you a 33 year old man who posts dozens of posts a day from 3 different screen names?

You've done more jiujitsu than me, but I've done more Muay Thai than you, and in traditional Thai gyms, too, but you shouldn't take my word for it. Ask anyone who has trained in actual Muay Thai.

You are not a fighter. You are currently flabby n sick and google most of your talking points about fighting from wikipedia.


The fact there are multitudes of heavy weight muay thai fighters (in the world) proves you dont know what you're talking about. Thailand is not a country of big people so there will not be heavy weights coming out of Thailand like that. Lastly, as i stated earlier, tailoring Muay thai techniques to a big guy *clinching, low kicks, elbows and abuse conditioning is not something we should call stupid. You are wrong to say its stupid, which is the whole point here. You're wrong. If he wants to be a close quarters tank, so be it. Its just another style. You have a closed mind.

 

[Tom]

 

[The Real]

You are not a fighter. You are currently flabby n sick and google most of your talking points about fighting from wikipedia.

I'm not interested in muddying up this thread with your emotional responses to my presence, so let's stick to the topic, breh.

The fact there are multitudes of heavy weight muay thai fighters (in the world) proves you dont know what you're talking about. Thailand is not a country of big people so there will not be heavy weights coming out of Thailand like that.

This has nothing to do with the sociological and stylistic difference between traditional MT and MMA-adapted variants. I have a feeling here you don't know much about "heavyweight" Muay Thai, or you wouldn't be bringing this up.

Lastly, as i stated earlier, tailoring Muay thai techniques to a big guy *clinching, low kicks, elbows and abuse conditioning is not something we should call stupid. You are wrong to say its stupid, which is the whole point here. You're wrong. If he wants to be a close quarters tank, so be it. Its just another style. You have a closed mind.

When did I say the above was stupid? Read closer, and with less emotion. I actually agreed with your point.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I personally trained more traditional because it suits me, and actually made the jump from more MMA-style Muay Thai. That distinction was very relevant for my own experience, and honestly, I wish I had made the switch earlier.

As you can see I train traditional now but I disagree with those ideas. Training in combat sport schools are very nice because they're distilled down to basic ideas of effectiveness, and are often very conditioning centric. Without my time having toughed it out in boxing and more MMA style muay thai I wouldn't have known what to look for in a traditional teacher, and my application wouldn't be as informed. I also wouldn't learn as quickly as i do now.

Either way people new to the martial arts shouldnt obsess over details of style and minutiae. They should find a teacher with real fight experience, who will condition their bodies and minds and refine basics properly. Thats the most important thing for a beginner.

 

[Mowgli]

I'm not interested in muddying up this thread with your emotional responses to my presence, so let's stick to the topic, breh.



This has nothing to do with the sociological and stylistic difference between traditional MT and MMA-adapted variants. I have a feeling here you don't know much about "heavyweight" Muay Thai, or you wouldn't be bringing this up.



When did I say the above was stupid? Read closer, and with less emotion. I actually agreed with your point.

You also have to work with body type. If you're huge, stocky or stout, focusing on something like Muay Thai is inefficient and stupid.

I read it you're saying big guys should not do muay thai and its stupid for them to think about focusing on it. You're wrong. Thats all.

 

[The Real]

As you can see I train traditional now but I disagree with those ideas. Training in combat sport schools are very nice because they're distilled down to basic ideas of effectiveness, and are often very conditioning centric. Without my time having toughed it out in boxing and more MMA style muay thai I wouldn't have known what to look for in a traditional teacher, and my application wouldn't be as informed. I also wouldn't learn as quickly as i do now.

Either way people new to the martial arts shouldnt obsess over details of style and minutiae. They should find a teacher with real fight experience, who will condition their bodies and minds and refine basics properly. Thats the most important thing for a beginner.

I didn't know you trained traditional, breh. Much respect. Did you train in Thailand? If so, where did you go?

FYI, I trained in boxing as well. It was the first martial art I got into. My grandfather was a pretty solid boxer, so he got me into it. I've actually done more boxing than anything else, including MT. I see what you're saying, but in my case, I feel I spent too much time in the MMA-style stuff before making the switch. I also jumped teachers a lot, because I kept running into MMA-types who claimed to be teaching MT and called themselves "kru" but had more of a base in non-MT stuff, which just didn't suit me as much or crossed-over too much wit my boxing, which I didn't need.

I read it you're saying big guys should not do muay thai. You're wrong. Thats all.

Then sorry, but you read wrong. As for focusing on it, yeah, it's inefficient. You can focus on specific techniques, but focusing on MT as a whole is a waste.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I didn't know you trained traditional, breh. Much respect. Did you train in Thailand? If so, where did you go?

FYI, I trained in boxing as well. It was the first martial art I got into. My grandfather was a pretty solid boxer, so he got me into it. I've actually done more boxing than anything else, including MT. I see what you're saying, but in my case, I feel I spent too much time in the MMA-style stuff before making the switch. I also jumped teachers a lot, because I kept running into MMA-types who claimed to be teaching MT and called themselves "kru" but had more of a base in non-MT stuff, which just didn't suit me as much or crossed-over too much wit my boxing, which I didn't need.

Ive only done some MT for when I was looking for something more strike wise after boxing. I agree that there are plenty of fakesters in MMA overexaggerating their mastery of a traditional art like that though.

I'm training schools of kung fu/wushu traditionally. Might go to China in december if things work out a certain way.

 

[The Real]

Ive only done some MT for when I was looking for something more strike wise after boxing. I agree that there are plenty of fakesters in MMA overexaggerating their mastery of a traditional art like that though.

I'm training schools of kung fu/wushu traditionally. Might go to China in december if things work out a certain way.

That's pretty cool. What kind of kung fu are you doing? I had a neighbor when I was a kid who put me on to a little kung fu stuff (only a few basic Shaolin forms and a little eagle claw.) I don't remember any of it now, but I do remember enjoying it a lot.

He went to China every year to learn and would come back with kinds of interesting info, and even forced himself to learn both Mandarin AND Cantonese just so he could immerse himself as deeply as possible. That impressed the hell out of me as a kid and definitely was a big inspiration to me back then.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

That's pretty cool. What kind of kung fu are you doing? I had a neighbor when I was a kid who put me on to a little kung fu stuff (only a few basic Shaolin forms and a little eagle claw.) I don't remember any of it now, but I do remember enjoying it a lot.

Wutan/Liu Yun Qiao style Bajiquan:


Sun style Xingyiquan:




Both of these examples are not my substyle, but look like Baji and Xingyi in application. That baji is probably Wu LianZhi's style and the Xingyi is Hebei.

 

[The Real]

Wutan/Liu Yun Qiao style Bajiquan:
Power of baji quan - YouTube

Sun style Xingyiquan:

Taiwan Tang Shou Dao - YouTube


Both of these examples are not my substyle, but look like Baji and Xingyi in application. That baji is probably Wu LianZhi's style and the Xingyi is Hebei.

Very intriguing. As I understand it, Baji is often used by military and special agents over there, but I've always heard that Xingyi is still regarded as more of an internal style. I'm assuming there's much more to it than that. What is it useful for?

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Very intriguing. As I understand it, Baji is often used by military and special agents over there, but I've always heard that Xingyi is still regarded as more of an internal style. I'm assuming there's much more to it than that. What is it useful for?

Baji actually has a very large internal component as well. Xingyi is great. Out of the 3 neijia schools (Taiji/Bagua/Xingyi) it's the easiest and simplest to master. The initial hand techniques or 5 element fists you learn are basically a lot like boxing. The mechanics work by coordinating a smooth forward hand and foot power. I'm gonna make a generalization here but for the most part it is a striking art, although large joint manipulation, takedowns, and throws are in there. Generally low kicks only. Xingyi teaches a small amount of techniques, like Baji, but teaches and encourages you to use all of them in very versatile ways.

For example here are the 5 fists:


They look like strikes but they all have different uses. Some can be transitioned into throws. some are used to simultaneously attack and defend.


Basically xingyi teaches the student to overwhelm the opponent in coordinated bursts of power resulting from proper body mechanics(the internal) and trained physical strength. It's a lot of fun, and really practical. Used to be used on the battlefield as an adaptation from spearfighting, and was employed against armored opponents. It seems simple, but there is a lot of depth to the mechanics and applications, kind of like baji.

It's linear, and aggressive. It's characterized as an internal style because there is HEAVY emphasis on proper mechanics and mental state. But i dont like using Internal/external as descriptors.

 

[semtex]

Y'all sound like them black dudes at the park who do Kung fu and shyt on other styles talkin bout "so u sayin if I hit u wit a monkey fist it ain't gon hurt?"

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Y'all sound like them black dudes at the park who do Kung fu and shyt on other styles talkin bout "so u sayin if I hit u wit a monkey fist it ain't gon hurt?"

I'm not shytting on no one's style in this thread. I don't shyt on anyones martial art unless you're doing some mystical pressure point dragonball z qi strike bullshyt or you're one of those aikido fakkits that thinks he can throw me with no physical strength just because you've been practicing coordinated falls with a willing partner.

The diffference between me and those guys is I have no need to prove my style or kung fu is better than anyone elses (gongfu/practice is what matters not style). And like I said i've done other styles for longer. I'm just describing the aim and training of Xingyi.


Actually i also hate on Wing Chun peeps a little too cause they are always talking about deadly bruce lee 1 inch punches and all sorts of bullshyt. "i cant spar because it would be too dangerous!!11!!" "wing chun is the best!!11". smh.