Making Melo a lifer and waving at Felton in Rikers: Knicks offseason thread

[Captain Crunch]

Melo leaves and you immediately start a fire sell.

Also you be patient by not blowing your cap space on supporting pieces like Rondo or Marc Gasol, when you have no franchise player.

 

[PIFF101]

Hearing rumors on either Shump or cash for a pick in this year's draft.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

I'm listening to anymore speculation, nobody has a clue of what's going to happen

 

[Victim of Racism]

Why would they think they had a better chance to contend playing second fiddle to Melo?



Make things up brehs. Look at their USG%, it shows that in recent years Melo definitely controls the ball more than and that for their careers that they control the ball the exact same amount. Also for defense statiscally Lebron's best defensive season is so much better than Melo's it is not even close.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html#advanced::19
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#advanced::none



Lebron only made it to the Finals once in Cleveland.

I guess every NBA executive and scout who thinks Lebron is better than Melo is wrong and @ZemaPromos from thecoli is right. Have a day.

For your 1st question? Because he would never get outplayed and shut down by little Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, JJ Barea, fat/old Diaw on any team, let alone, a stacked team like Miami; especially in the Finals. Pop wouldn't even put Kawhi on 'Melo last season. He decided not to let him shoot at all by sending double and triple teams on every NY possession. He wouldn't be a non-factor against this old Spurs team on a stacked team like Miami, like Lj is. Unlike Lj, he doesn't need athleticism to be effective because he can actually shoot (you know, the object of the game?!). Lj went after 'Melo's 62 because he wanted to be like him.



That's why everybody wants him. You still didn't answer my question. Why would anyone think they could contend in NY without a max player already in place? Phil, Triangle, Fisher ()?

Usg%? No, touches is the guage. Raymond, Felton, Chuancey Billups', etc led 'Melo's teams in that category because they are PG's. Lj leads his team in touches because he functions as the PG.

Last season 'Melo's overall defense ranked in the 69th%tile (a full 19% above average). He was excellent in defending the post up (his position [PF] that season), as he ranked in the 92nd%tile. It's extremely tough to guard those big, strong PF's. Lj is so weak and soft that he won't even take on that challenge of defending people with size, like 'Melo and West. He lets Battier do it, even though he's much younger and bigger (he got like 20-lbs on battier). Now let's talk about iso defense. 'Melo was awful in that, 31st percentile last year but guess what, Lj is even worse this year, 28th percentile. Check out all these years that Lj was below average to average at defense:

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2004.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2007.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2008.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2014.html

Lj is horrid and very lazy at defense. When Lj gets settled in a half court defense, he is always looking for the ball and not always watching his man. He's a terrible on-ball defender. He only defends in spurts and takes 2/3rds of games off, for the most part. He doesn't shut anyone down. He stops moving/guarding someone, watches his opponents shoot the ball in and then looks down at one of his teammates to wonder what they were doing. I can give Youtube links of this, if you like, because the film don't lie. He even blamed Chalmers when Paul George dunked on him in that game in Indy before the Playoffs.

He gets beat off the dribble a lot and his lateral movements are horrendous. Lj defends in transition at times. He'll roam around and make plays when he's out of position (or gambling) and he makes the flashy plays that everyone loves (steals, blocks), but when he has to face his opponent up, he's terrible. His steals be off bad passes. You never see him press someone and take their dribble. What you do see, is him play the passing lanes.

Last season he made Durant shoot very poorly and the only reason he got 27 pts is from the free throw line. Lj won't even shoot when 'Melo is guarding him. That's the top 2 scorers (besides himself, of course) that he shuts down. Who lit 'Melo up this season? Lj can't do that. He can't defend anyone w/ talent. 'Melo and Durant be lighting him up for 30pts (Durant), 38-40+ pts and game-winners ('Melo). That's why in that last game against NY, little bitty J.R. kept hitting 3's in Lj's face. Lj said he can't guard KD in this video below:



In this video, he claims that no one can guard KD but 'Melo sure did last season. Metta can guard KD too. KD always tries to get the switch when Metta is guarding him.

Lj is one of the worst defenders in the league. He roams because he's too lazy to stay in front of his own man. 'Melo is not like that. 'Melo sticks to his man. In Lj's off-ball defense, he often loses his man, and blames it on Chalmers.

About your statement that Lj went to the Finals once in Cleveland, that's my whole point. The few good teams he was on in Cleveland, he had much better talent than 'Melo ever did and he never won.

Those scouts and NBA exects you're referring to are brainwashed (just like you) from the millions of marketing dollars put into convincing everyone that Lj's the “best player in the world” because the NBA needs a face. Lj is their fake Michael Jordan and Miami is their fake dynasty. Stern saved a dying NBA with that strategy.

 

[DirtyD]

For your 1st question? Because he would never get outplayed and shut down by little Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, JJ Barea, fat/old Diaw on any team, let alone, a stacked team like Miami; especially in the Finals. Pop wouldn't even put Kawhi on 'Melo last season. He decided not to let him shoot at all by sending double and triple teams on every NY possession. He wouldn't be a non-factor against this old Spurs team on a stacked team like Miami, like Lj is. Unlike Lj, he doesn't need athleticism to be effective because he can actually shoot (you know, the object of the game?!). Lj went after 'Melo's 62 because he wanted to be like him.



That's why everybody wants him. You still didn't answer my question. Why would anyone think they could contend in NY without a max player already in place? Phil, Triangle, Fisher ()?

Usg%? No, touches is the guage. Raymond, Felton, Chuancey Billups', etc led 'Melo's teams in that category because they are PG's. Lj leads his team in touches because he functions as the PG.

Last season 'Melo's overall defense ranked in the 69th%tile (a full 19% above average). He was excellent in defending the post up (his position [PF] that season), as he ranked in the 92nd%tile. It's extremely tough to guard those big, strong PF's. Lj is so weak and soft that he won't even take on that challenge of defending people with size, like 'Melo and West. He lets Battier do it, even though he's much younger and bigger (he got like 20-lbs on battier). Now let's talk about iso defense. 'Melo was awful in that, 31st percentile last year but guess what, Lj is even worse this year, 28th percentile. Check out all these years that Lj was below average to average at defense:

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2004.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2007.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2008.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2014.html

Lj is horrid and very lazy at defense. When Lj gets settled in a half court defense, he is always looking for the ball and not always watching his man. He's a terrible on-ball defender. He only defends in spurts and takes 2/3rds of games off, for the most part. He doesn't shut anyone down. He stops moving/guarding someone, watches his opponents shoot the ball in and then looks down at one of his teammates to wonder what they were doing. I can give Youtube links of this, if you like, because the film don't lie. He even blamed Chalmers when Paul George dunked on him in that game in Indy before the Playoffs.

He gets beat off the dribble a lot and his lateral movements are horrendous. Lj defends in transition at times. He'll roam around and make plays when he's out of position (or gambling) and he makes the flashy plays that everyone loves (steals, blocks), but when he has to face his opponent up, he's terrible. His steals be off bad passes. You never see him press someone and take their dribble. What you do see, is him play the passing lanes.

Last season he made Durant shoot very poorly and the only reason he got 27 pts is from the free throw line. Lj won't even shoot when 'Melo is guarding him. That's the top 2 scorers (besides himself, of course) that he shuts down. Who lit 'Melo up this season? Lj can't do that. He can't defend anyone w/ talent. 'Melo and Durant be lighting him up for 30pts (Durant), 38-40+ pts and game-winners ('Melo). That's why in that last game against NY, little bitty J.R. kept hitting 3's in Lj's face. Lj said he can't guard KD in this video below:



In this video, he claims that no one can guard KD but 'Melo sure did last season. Metta can guard KD too. KD always tries to get the switch when Metta is guarding him.

Lj is one of the worst defenders in the league. He roams because he's too lazy to stay in front of his own man. 'Melo is not like that. 'Melo sticks to his man. In Lj's off-ball defense, he often loses his man, and blames it on Chalmers.

About your statement that Lj went to the Finals once in Cleveland, that's my whole point. The few good teams he was on in Cleveland, he had much better talent than 'Melo ever did and he never won.

Those scouts and NBA exects you're referring to are brainwashed (just like you) from the millions of marketing dollars put into convincing everyone that Lj's the “best player in the world” because the NBA needs a face. Lj is their fake Michael Jordan and Miami is their fake dynasty. Stern saved a dying NBA with that strategy.

1.The object of the game is to be good at shooting jumpshots?
2. A four time MVP and two time finals MVP wants to be like someone who has made it past the first round of the playoffs twice in a ten year career?
3. If Melo is such a better defender than Lebron why does he allow so many more points per 100 possesions?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#advanced::21
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html#advanced::21

4. Why do you think the Knicks could contend with Carmelo taking up so much of the cap when he has never shown the ability to lead a team to a championship while taking up a smaller portion of the Knicks' cap?
5. KD shut down? Even though the Thunder lost since when is scoring 27 points on 17 shots being shutdown?
6. I'm sure you think Melo is a better rebounder than Lebron too despite the fact that Lebron has a better TRB%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#advanced::14
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

Anyway again I'm done talking to you I think we'll just have to agree to disagree after seeing some of the things you've said.

 

[DirtyD]

i could get with that, depending on what the knicks get back.

but here's some other food for thought:
here's a list of the existing max players in the NBA, in descending order of contract value:

• Joe Johnson, Nets — Six years, $123,658,089: Signed in July 2010 to a starting salary worth 30% of the salary cap, with raises worth 10.5% of the starting salary.
• Chris Paul, Clippers — Five years, $107,343,475: Signed in July 2013 to a starting salary worth 105% of his 2012/13 pay, with raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.
• Deron Williams, Nets — Five years, $98,772,325: Signed in July 2012 to a starting salary worth 105% of his 2011/12 pay, with raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.
• Blake Griffin, Clippers — Five years, $94,538,626: Signed in July 2012 to a rookie-scale extension, and qualified for a starting salary worth 30% of the salary cap via theDerrick Rose rule. Deal includes raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.
• Derrick Rose, Bulls — Five years, $94,314,380: Signed in December 2011 to a rookie-scale extension, and qualified for a starting salary worth 30% of the salary cap via the eponymous Derrick Rose rule. Deal includes raises worth 7.5% raises of the starting salary.
• Kevin Durant, Thunder — Five years, $89,163,134: Signed in July 2010 to a rookie-scale extension, and qualified for a starting salary worth 30% of the salary cap via theDerrick Rose rule. Deal includes raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.1
• Dwight Howard, Rockets — Four years, $87,591,270: Signed in July 2013 to a starting salary worth 105% of his 2012/13 pay, with raises worth 4.5% of the starting salary.
• Rudy Gay, Raptors — Five years, $82,302,690: Signed in July 2010 to a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 10.5% of the starting salary.2
• James Harden, Rockets — Five years, $78,782,188: Signed in October 2012 to a rookie scale extension with a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.
• Russell Westbrook, Thunder — Five years, $78,595,312: Signed in January 2012 to a rookie-scale extension with a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.3
• Carmelo Anthony, Knicks — Three years, $67,222,422: Signed an extension with a starting salary worth 110.5% of his 2011/12 pay, with raises worth 10.5% of the starting salary.4
• Kevin Love, Timberwolves — Four years, $60,825,938: Signed in January 2012 to a rookie-scale extension with a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.5
• Eric Gordon, Pelicans — Four years, $58,365,563: Signed an offer sheet in July 2012 with the Suns with a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 4.5% of the starting salary. The Pelicans matched.
• Roy Hibbert, Pacers — Four years, $58,365,563: Signed in July 2012 to a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 4.5% of the starting salary.6
• Marc Gasol, Grizzlies — Four years, $57,503,764: Signed in December 2011 to a starting salary worth 25% of the salary cap, with raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary.7
• John Wall, Wizards — Five years, TBA: Signed in July 2013 to a starting salary worth either 25% or 30% of the salary cap, depending on whether he qualifies for the Derrick Rose rule. The deal will have raises worth 7.5% of the starting salary

man pay melo his f*ckin money

Homie your basically saying everyone else is spending their money stupidly why shouldn't I . At least six of those guys are very overpaid and there contracts are a large part of the reason why their respective teams will not compete for a title. Again I want Melo to stay, but overpaying him to keep him isn't the answer.

 

[Victim of Racism]

1.The object of the game is to be good at shooting jumpshots?
2. A four time MVP and two time finals MVP wants to be like someone who has made it past the first round of the playoffs twice in a ten year career?
3. If Melo is such a better defender than Lebron why does he allow so many more points per 100 possesions?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#advanced::21
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html#advanced::21

4. Why do you think the Knicks could contend with Carmelo taking up so much of the cap when he has never shown the ability to lead a team to a championship while taking up a smaller portion of the Knicks' cap?
5. KD shut down? Even though the Thunder lost since when is scoring 27 points on 17 shots being shutdown?
6. I'm sure you think Melo is a better rebounder than Lebron too despite the fact that Lebron has a better TRB%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#advanced::14
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

Anyway again I'm done talking to you I think we'll just have to agree to disagree after seeing some of the things you've said.

Yes, that's the object of the game, so that you don't get outplayed and shut down by little Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, JJ Barea, fat/old Diaw on any team, let alone, a stacked team like Miami; especially in the Finals, especially when you're physically huge and quick. Yes, that's the object of the game, so that you're not a non-factor against this old Spurs team, leading to a 3-1 hole on a stacked team like Miami because you need athleticism to be effective.

MVP's? Lj has only has them because the NBA needs a face of the league. Lj has more than Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, and Hakeem to name a few. Further proof that the MVP award is a joke is that Nash has more than Barkley, Kobe, Garnett (who I hate but he's a great player), Wade, Iverson, Shaq, and Hakeem to name a few.

Lj missed the Playoffs 2 years in a row. 'Melo has never missed them until this season because his coach intentionally threw games to help Miami 3-peat (sweet revenge), despite being in that brutal western conference for most of his career.

Of course Lj has gone further than 'Melo in the post-season, he's been on better teams.

Points more possessions? The team does when he's on the floor. That's not a stat of 1 man vs his opponent. The stat I gave you about percentile is the stat you're looking for. Look at what Lj does against talents like 'Melo and Durant. Look at the success 'Melo has in defending Lj and Durant. Also, look at the film. I think Serge Ibaka would know if Lj is a good defender; he's not.

'Melo has never shown the inability to lead a team to a championship because he has never been on a championship team. Last season, he led a very old team to the same record Miami ended this season with. Lj wanting to be like 'Melo was Lj's words before I said them. Don't forget the tweet. You still haven't answer my question because we all know that no one's assuming they can compete with Phil coaching the Triangle through Fisher.

Durant shot 7-17 from the field with 15 free throws against 'Melo.

'Melo has more offensive rebounds (the ones that don't just come to you and are worth more because they're 2nd chance points) than Lj and KD combined and 'Melo will surpass him in defensive rebounds soon.

You're done because you're offended I'm calling out your idol.

 

[OsO]

Homie your basically saying everyone else is spending their money stupidly why shouldn't I

im not saying that at all. im saying it's about the market.

melo is a top 10, possibly top 5 player. if he's not worth a max contract, then who in the NBA is worth a max?

if the knicks lose melo it will be mediocrity for the next 3+ years. the grass is not always greener on the other side breh.

 

[Wargames]

Homie your basically saying everyone else is spending their money stupidly why shouldn't I . At least six of those guys are very overpaid and there contracts are a large part of the reason why their respective teams will not compete for a title. Again I want Melo to stay, but overpaying him to keep him isn't the answer.

That needs to be the knicks approach to Melo. yeah his individual stats are great, but its clear he can't carry a team alone to any real success. Paying him while crippling your ability to improve the roster is the worse thing you can do. It means the knicks will be locked in as a middle of the pact team like they are now for the next 5 years. With no real chance at being championship contenders due to roster restrictions and no real chance of getting the type of draft picks needed to rapidly improve either.

 

[Brozay]

man, shut the fukk up.

You saying prayers at night that I dont have Melo on the Bulls in 2k15?

 

[ikbm]

You saying prayers at night that I dont have Melo on the Bulls in 2k15?

what difference would it make?
i can cook with anyone.

 

[Brozay]

what difference would it make?
i can cook with anyone.

The following error occurred:
You must spread reputation to at least 40 other user(s) before you can give reputation to ikbm again.

 

[Typical Knicks Fan]

What are the chances that both Amare and Beli both opt out this summer to free up cap space after seeing what it did for the Spurs?

 

[nomoreneveragain]

What are the chances that both Amare and Beli both opt out this summer to free up cap space after seeing what it did for the Spurs?

Amare already Opted in

 

[Sampson]

Why am I still awaiting approval for the knickstape group? :Dolan: