Lord Jamar DEMOLISHES KRS-One's claim of Latinos pioneering Hip-Hop

[Awesome Wells]

you literally have a YouTube channel going back 1213 years totally debunking the Kool Herc story
That’s matter of fact, the first hip-hop person to ever win a Grammy … grandmixer DXT has stated that Mario and Smokey are 1st generation while Herc , Bam , Flash , Barren & Breakout are 2nd generation

You talking about YouTube and I'm talking about actual pioneers who were there and what they've always said and continue to. Think about that.

Point is, y'all like to discredit legends in Hip Hop and don’t have any actual knowledge about what you're talking about, other than searching Google and YouTube. DXT is a student of Herc! He credits Herc with getting him started. He's also much younger than Herc. So how is he going to tell anyone who was there before Herc was? You're naming disco deejays. This is about Hip Hop. The people you're talking about, are literal students of Herc and credit him with getting them started. DXT grew up watching disco deejays. But he always said he didn't want to become a deejay until he saw Herc. Bro literally always says the first tier is HERC, Mario and a couple others. And that Flash and them was second tier. But you're on here saying something else. Even Smokey always says that "Herc was the master". Hilarious, lol.

Y'all casuals need Google for this. But you're not searching good enough.

Spend more time respecting the pioneers and learning more about the history, than trying to sh*t on the greats.

 

[kingofnyc]

You talking about YouTube and I'm talking about actual pioneers who were there and what they've always said and continue to. Think about that.

Point is, y'all like to discredit legends in Hip Hop and don’t have any actual knowledge about what you're talking about, other than searching Google and YouTube. DXT is a student of Herc! He credits Herc with getting him started. He's also much younger than Herc. So how is he going to tell anyone who was there before Herc was? You're naming disco deejays. This is about Hip Hop. The people you're talking about, are literal students of Herc and credit him with getting them started. DXT grew up watching disco deejays. But he always said he didn't want to become a deejay until he saw Herc. Bro literally always says the first tier is HERC, Mario and a couple others. And that Flash and them was second tier. But you're on here saying something else. Even Smokey always says that "Herc was the master". Hilarious, lol.

Y'all casuals need Google for this. But you're not searching good enough.

Spend more time respecting the pioneers and learning more about the history, than trying to sh*t on the greats.

1st off … nobody’s trying to shyt on Herc

2nd … DXT states his start was from being down with Smokey & his crew - The Smoketrons

3rd & lastly … that YouTube channel that I mentioned - it was called Michael Wayne TV and that happens to be the realist most authentic channel about the creation of hip-hop then anything ever done - their story backed up by receipts after receipts after receipts stands up that DJ Disco King Mario should be the face or depiction of hip-hop not Herc and with that said I’ve always been team Herc but once I got put on that YouTube channel, roughly about eight years ago I enjoyed the individuals who spoke their truth about Bronxsdale, black spades, Mario, etc., etc., but I still was team Herc till Buster got out of pocket with that hip-hop comes from Jamaica shyt … and then that blowing up all over … I had to call two of my elder cousins who used to live in the East Bronx back in the days one both are in their mid 60s one lives in Georgia the other one lives in Tennessee and they both said Mario was before Herc.

 

[delnegro]

Old School Hip Hop Interviews - Se' Devine (Supreme Team) | OldSchoolHipHop.Com

An Interview with Old School Hip Hop DJ , Se' Devine

www.oldschoolhiphop.com

I guess most would consider Grandmaster Flowers a “disco” DJ. But besides spinning in clubs & Riis park at the beach he definitely did park jams.

Here’s a link of Se Divine from the World Famous Supreme Team who was on WHBI where Mr Magic got his start speaking on it.

Se Divine: But when I came home that cat Flowers (Grand Master Flowers.) was rocking Brooklyn. He used to set up in this park I lived across from Elevens park or P.S. 11 park, over on Green Avenue and Washington Avenue. When Flowers came out with that system and started rocking that sound I was like “damn I like this”

World Famous Supreme has been sampled crazy times in Hip Hop too.

 

[Awesome Wells]

1st off … nobody’s trying to shyt on Herc

2nd … DXT states his start was from being down with Smokey & his crew - The Smoketrons

3rd & lastly … that YouTube channel that I mentioned - it was called Michael Wayne TV and that happens to be the realist most authentic channel about the creation of hip-hop then anything ever done - their story backed up by receipts after receipts after receipts stands up that DJ Disco King Mario should be the face or depiction of hip-hop not Herc and with that said I’ve always been team Herc but once I got put on that YouTube channel, roughly about eight years ago I enjoyed the individuals who spoke their truth about Bronxsdale, black spades, Mario, etc., etc., but I still was team Herc till Buster got out of pocket with that hip-hop comes from Jamaica shyt … and then that blowing up all over … I had to call two of my elder cousins who used to live in the East Bronx back in the days one both are in their mid 60s one lives in Georgia the other one lives in Tennessee and they both said Mario was before Herc.

DXT said seeing Herc was what got him started. He was too young to get down with Herc by then. But Herc was who he saw and wanted to become a DJ. In a talk he had with Smokey and Sway, Smokey himself calls Herc "the master" and speaks on Herc being the one. And Smokey might be older than Herc! Every founder from back then, and every pioneer says the same thing. So no poster on this site or any other one is gonna say anything to change history or the stories of the people that were actually there. They're not qualified to. You tried to say Herc was second generation. The same people you're speaking about all call Herc "first generation" and call Bam and Flash "second'.

You keep bringing up DXT, but he always says that Mario was more seen as a disco deejay, and that Herc was the only one from the early days that started back then, but came over to do Hip Hop and influenced his generation of b-boys. Mario wasn't playing those records. Herc was. DXT speaks on that all the time. Smokey speaks on that all the time. It's not about who "should" be seen as whatever. It's about who was doing the actual work in and for Hip Hop. All the pioneers give respect to the disco deejays who came before, but those guys are NOT the ones that built what we see as Hip Hop today. That was Herc. And they all say it. Raheim from the Funky 4 tells the same stories. Herc was the one who did it for Hip Hop first, but Flowers and Mario were always seen as disco deejays back then. Everyone should know this by now.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

DXT said seeing Herc was what got him started. He was too young to get down with Herc by then. But Herc was who he saw and wanted to become a DJ. In a talk he had with Smokey and Sway, Smokey himself calls Herc "the master" and speaks on Herc being the one. And Smokey might be older than Herc! Every founder from back then, and every pioneer says the same thing. So no poster on this site or any other one is gonna say anything to change history or the stories of the people that were actually there. They're not qualified to. You tried to say Herc was second generation. The same people you're speaking about all call Herc "first generation" and call Bam and Flash "second'.

You keep bringing up DXT, but he always says that Mario was more seen as a disco deejay, and that Herc was the only one from the early days that started back then, but came over to do Hip Hop and influenced his generation of b-boys. Mario wasn't playing those records. Herc was. DXT speaks on that all the time. Smokey speaks on that all the time. It's not about who "should" be seen as whatever. It's about who was doing the actual work in and for Hip Hop. All the pioneers give respect to the disco deejays who came before, but those guys are NOT the ones that built what we see as Hip Hop today. That was Herc. And they all say it. Raheim from the Funky 4 tells the same stories. Herc was the one who did it for Hip Hop first, but Flowers and Mario were always seen as disco deejays back then. Everyone should know this by now.

Bboys and graffiti artist at the jams predate herc

Break beats predate herc in new york
Mcing predates herc

We’ve been over this time and time again. Nothing STARTS with kool herc

 

[kingofnyc]

DXT said seeing Herc was what got him started. He was too young to get down with Herc by then. But Herc was who he saw and wanted to become a DJ. In a talk he had with Smokey and Sway, Smokey himself calls Herc "the master" and speaks on Herc being the one. And Smokey might be older than Herc! Every founder from back then, and every pioneer says the same thing. So no poster on this site or any other one is gonna say anything to change history or the stories of the people that were actually there. They're not qualified to. You tried to say Herc was second generation. The same people you're speaking about all call Herc "first generation" and call Bam and Flash "second'.

You keep bringing up DXT, but he always says that Mario was more seen as a disco deejay, and that Herc was the only one from the early days that started back then, but came over to do Hip Hop and influenced his generation of b-boys. Mario wasn't playing those records. Herc was. DXT speaks on that all the time. Smokey speaks on that all the time. It's not about who "should" be seen as whatever. It's about who was doing the actual work in and for Hip Hop. All the pioneers give respect to the disco deejays who came before, but those guys are NOT the ones that built what we see as Hip Hop today. That was Herc. And they all say it. Raheim from the Funky 4 tells the same stories. Herc was the one who did it for Hip Hop first, but Flowers and Mario were always seen as disco deejays back then. Everyone should know this by now.

as far as DXT - we can call this a draw …. because both of us had posted things that was slightly inaccurate

me = on DXT saying Herc was 2nd gen
you = on DXT started with Herc & saying DXT & Smokey considered Mario a Disco DJ

 

[Awesome Wells]

Bboys and graffiti artist at the jams predate herc

Break beats predate herc in new york
Mcing predates herc

We’ve been over this time and time again. Nothing STARTS with kool herc

That wasn't the point.

Emceeing wasn't seen in the way we know it even after Herc. For years. But Coke started doing what we know as emceeing with Herc. No one said graffiti started with Herc, lol. Y'all just throwing everything at the wall and hoping it sticks, at this point.

This is about bringing the elements together and pushing the culture through action. Every pioneer credits Herc. So again, nobody cares what random posters online are going to say. The people who were there have spoken on this for over 5 decades. Agree or not, it's not gonna change the history, fam.

 

[Awesome Wells]

as far as DXT - we can call this a draw …. because both of us had posted things that was slightly inaccurate

me = on DXT saying Herc was 2nd gen
you = on DXT started with Herc & saying DXT & Smokey considered Mario a Disco DJ

In this same talk with them, bro clearly states that everything with him and his OG's started with Herc, lol. All of the founders credit dude. No one said he was the first DJ ever. They clearly credit him with founding Hip Hop as a culture and a whole. Not that he invented breaking or deejaying. These are his contemporaries. We all know what they credit him for. So any interview any of us can pull up from any founder or pioneer, you won't find one saying otherwise about Herc. Anywhere. Because they all give him the respect he deserves as being the father of this.

He literally says that Herc was the one that started it and Smokey gets on the phone and says that Herc is "the master". If you check his other interviews, he says the same thing. He even goes as far as to say all the other pioneers "followed Herc's lead" and that "there is no Hip Hop today the way we see it, without Herc". Go to any interview with DXT and Smoke, they say the same. Check any interview with Caz, Red Alert, Raheim, or anyone from that era. They all the say the same.

None of us were there. But they were. So we're gonna start calling the founders and OG's liars now? This is what I meant by respecting the people that were actually there. There isn't one interview with any legend where they would dare not mention Herc and say he wasn't the one. So why are people who weren't even there, or even born yet mad comfortable with discrediting the people who would know best? Sh*t is comical. And wild disrespectful.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

In this same talk with them, bro clearly states that everything with him and his OG's started with Herc, lol. All of the founders credit dude. No one said he was the first DJ ever. They clearly credit him with founding Hip Hop as a culture and a whole. Not that he invented breaking or deejaying. These are his contemporaries. We all know what they credit him for. So any interview any of us can pull up from any founder or pioneer, you won't find one saying otherwise about Herc. Anywhere. Because they all give him the respect he deserves as being the father of this.

They credit Herc for playing role, they DONT say that he was the founder:

Herc DID NOT Rap

Herc DID NOT start graf

Herc DID NOT play Funk records first

Herc DID NOT invent breakdancing


......all Herc did was provide a place for others to gather in the WEST BRONX

.
.


and as Baam already made clear, it was going on in other places before/independent of Herc

He literally says that Herc was the one that started it and Smokey gets on the phone and says that Herc is "the master". If you check his other interviews, he says the same thing. He even goes as far as to say all the other pioneers "followed Herc's lead" and that "there is no Hip Hop today the way we see it, without Herc". Go to any interview with DXT and Smoke, they say the same. Check any interview with Caz, Red Alert, Raheim, or anyone from that era. They all the say the same.

Smokey is before Herc and people who were there have made this known is numerous interviews.


Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts

Well, when did you guys decide that, from the Zulu Kings and all, that you three and Bambaataa were going to be The Soulsonic Force, more as a music group?

So it wound up just being us three that stuck it out. 'Cause me and G.L.O.B.E. were more in the hip-hop area than the Bronx River was. See, where we came from, we were hip-hop, with The L Brothers, DJ Smokey and the Smokeatron, he was from Grand Avenue. And a lot of guys, they don't talk about him. I'll get back to what we were saying, but DJ Smokey, and his brother Roscoe and the Smokeatron, they were the baddest motherfukkers out at the time, man. I mean, Flash couldn't touch them, Kool Herc couldn't touch them. Nobody was touchin' Smokey. And a lot of cats will not speak on him, which they should, because he is also a pioneer of hip-hop music.

And what happened to him?

I heard he moved out of state. I heard he moved before hip-hop music turned big. I guess he cut it loose and went about his life, but DJ Smokey and his brother Roscoe, let me tell you, they threw the baddest parties. You wanted to see some guys that could dance? Man, it was a show! There's a movie theatre we had over on 174th St in the Bronx River called The Dover movie theatre that had a place you could give parties - it's a church now - but he made that spot very popular. He used to throw block parties mostly on Grand Avenue. And this guy here, I wanna let the world know about him; he definitely deserves his props, man, because he was there in the beginning. And a lot of guys don't that brother his recognition, which is sad; and I'ma give it to him every time all the time

Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)

None of us were there. But they were. So we're gonna start calling the founders and OG's liars now? This is what I meant by respecting the people that were actually there. There isn't one interview with any legend where they would dare not mention Herc and say he wasn't the one. So why are people who weren't even there, or even born yet mad comfortable with discrediting the people who would know best? Sh*t is comical. And wild disrespectful.

Herc was ONE, he just wasn't the founder or the only ONE who played a role. Like I already posted, these are Herc's own words


straight from Herc's own mouth!:

.
.

How can Herc be the start of HipHop when he himself admitted that it was already going on in 1970?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Point is, y'all like to discredit legends in Hip Hop and don’t have any actual knowledge about what you're talking about, other than searching Google and YouTube. DXT is a student of Herc! He credits Herc with getting him started. He's also much younger than Herc. So how is he going to tell anyone who was there before Herc was? You're naming disco deejays. This is about Hip Hop. The people you're talking about, are literal students of Herc and credit him with getting them started. DXT grew up watching disco deejays. But he always said he didn't want to become a deejay until he saw Herc. Bro literally always says the first tier is HERC, Mario and a couple others. And that Flash and them was second tier. But you're on here saying something else. Even Smokey always says that "Herc was the master". Hilarious, lol.

Y'all casuals need Google for this. But you're not searching good enough.

Spend more time respecting the pioneers and learning more about the history, than trying to sh*t on the greats.

he said herc never looped records





DXT also said HipHop's lineage comes from FBA music




he said Smokey is before Herc



and that Rapping as we know it came from Dj Hollywood

 

[Awesome Wells]

They credit Herc for playing role, they DONT say that he was the founder:

Herc DID NOT Rap

Herc DID NOT start graf

Herc DID NOT play Funk records first

Herc DID NOT invent breakdancing


......all Herc did was provide a place for others to gather in the WEST BRONX

.
.


and as Baam already made clear, it was going on in other places before/independent of Herc














Smokey is before Herc and people who were there have made this known is numerous interviews.


Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts






Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)










Herc was ONE, he just wasn't the founder or the only ONE who played a role. Like I already posted, these are Herc's own words


straight from Herc's own mouth!:

.
.

How can Herc be the start of HipHop when he himself admitted that it was already going on in 1970?

Bro, you've been out of touch with this talk since your first post. LOL!!

Herc was there in the late 60's! WTF are you talking about? He said people caught on to Hip Hop years after he was already doing it for years. He said he introduced the "merry-go-round" in '73. He never said he started then. SMH!!

Don’t nobody got time to be reading your 17-19 irrelevant screenshots and YT videos that don’t even speak on the topic. You know exactly what the pioneers and founders credit Herc with. You ain't never see nobody say bro invented breakdancing. But you can keep acting like you don’t know what he's credited for forever, if you want. We all know what all the OG's say. So you're wasting our time and yours by posting every interview you can find, but clearly skipping over the ones with the legends who were there, who say EXACTLY what Herc was doing and how he founded the culture as a whole.

Once again..

 

[Awesome Wells]

he said herc never looped records





DXT also said HipHop's lineage comes from FBA music




he said Smokey is before Herc



and that Rapping as we know it came from Dj Hollywood

There is no way you're this slow.

The "merry-go-round" was when Herc would take breaks and extend them for minutes by playing just those parts of the record and switching from break to break in his parties. He called that his "five minute LOOP of fury". He wasn't cutting records, he was just playing the breaks back to back. How do you not know this after all of your Googling?

BTW, Smokey is older than Herc. And he calls Herc "the master" and says Hip Hop started with Herc. You need to do your homework and stop just posting random videos you don’t even watch.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Bro, you've been out of touch with this talk since your first post. LOL!!

Herc was there in the late 60's! WTF are you talking about? He said people caught on to Hip Hop years after he was already doing it for years. He said he introduced the "merry-go-round" in '73. He never said he started then. SMH!!

You must have poor reading comprehension. Herc wasn't a Dj in the late 1960s, he was going to OTHER dj's parties

He said HipHop was going on at the Plaza Tunnel via Dj John Brown late 1960s/early 1970s and that after he BECAME a Dj in 1973, it wasn't going anywhere. He even admitted to stealing John Brown's playlist (Dj John Brown is where he got the idea to play "breaks" (Funk))

Don’t nobody got time to be reading your 17-19 irrelevant screenshots and YT videos that don’t even speak on the topic.

Oh, they speak very clearly on the topic

You know exactly what the pioneers and founders credit Herc with. You ain't never see nobody say bro invented breakdancing. But you can keep acting like you don’t know what he's credited for forever, if you want. We all know what all the OG's say. So you're wasting our time and yours by posting every interview you can find, but clearly skipping over the ones with the legends who were there, who say EXACTLY what Herc was doing and how he founded the culture as a whole.

Once again..

I see, YOU can't refute the facts









.
.

Herc's right hand man blows up the Herc narrative lol:

CLARK KENT:"Well, we met when we were 8 years old and we did everything together in the beginning of hiphop. If you saw me, you saw the Twins...if you saw the Twins, you saw me..our names were cemented together, okay?! There's nothing that they were involved in that I wasn't there for and there is nothing that I was involved in that they wasn't there for. We were like triplets. Wherever you seen one you seen all three of us when it came to movin' around in Hiphop. We used to travel down to Chuck Center which is one of the places we really honed our skills at before finding out about Kool Herc and going to Kool Herc's parties. We would go to Chuck Center like every other week 'cause they had a dance contest and we used to love winning that dance contest."

NORIN RAD:"That's some precious knowledge!!! Chuck Center was located in East Harlem, right?"

CLARK KENT: "Yes on 115th Street & 2nd Avenue."

NORIN RAD: "So you were basically breaking at Chuck Center BEFORE you met Kool Herc?"

CLARK KENT:"Before I even met Kool Herc! That's where The (N***er) Twins and I honed our skills and we would go down there with cats like Wallace Dee and Chip. These are guys from the era of like Trixie and them. We ran with a whole host of cats down there before we found out what Herc was doing what he was doing on the Westside (of the Bronx).One of the names I wanna mention though is Dancing Doug!!!Back then Chuck Center was one of the places where we encountered Dancing Doug! The premier place to do breaking became Kool Herc's parties but prior to Kool Herc's we used to go to (DJ) Smokey's parties, you know, the Twins and I. From Smokey's we caught on to Chuck Center and then from Chuck Center we caught on to what Herc was doing. And out of all the places we went, you know, we honed our skills! A lot of people have this misconception that we got our skills at Kool Herc's...by the time the Twins and I arrived at Kool Herc's we was already elite!!!! And that's why we quickly ran through whoever thought they was somebody at Kool Herc's at that time. It was only a matter of time before you got on our nerves and you kept running your mouth.. There's nothing that they were involved in that I wasn't there for and there is nothing that I was involved in that they wasn't there for. We were like triplets. Wherever you seen one you seen all three of us when it came to movin' around in Hiphop. We used to travel down to Chuck Center which is one of the places we really honed our skills at before finding out about Kool Herc and going to Kool Herc's parties. We would go to Chuck Center like every other week 'cause they had a dance contest and we used to love winning that dance contest."

NORIN RAD:"That's some precious knowledge!!! Chuck Center was located in East Harlem, right?"

CLARK KENT: "Yes on 115th Street & 2nd Avenue."

NORIN RAD: "So you were basically breaking at Chuck Center BEFORE you met Kool Herc?"

CLARK KENT:"Before I even met Kool Herc! That's where The (N***er) Twins and I honed our skills and we would go down there with cats like Wallace Dee and Chip. These are guys from the era of like Trixie and them. We ran with a whole host of cats down there before we found out what Herc was doing what he was doing on the Westside (of the Bronx).One of the names I wanna mention though is Dancing Doug!!!Back then Chuck Center was one of the places where we encountered Dancing Doug! The premier place to do breaking became Kool Herc's parties but prior to Kool Herc's we used to go to (DJ) Smokey's parties, you know, the Twins and I. From Smokey's we caught on to Chuck Center and then from Chuck Center we caught on to what Herc was doing. And out of all the places we went, you know, we honed our skills! A lot of people have this misconception that we got our skills at Kool Herc's...by the time the Twins and I arrived at Kool Herc's we was already elite!!!! And that's why we quickly ran through whoever thought they was somebody at Kool Herc's at that time. It was only a matter of time before you got on our nerves and you kept running your mouth.. and we waited untiltil you were dancing in your little circle and I would jumped into your circle and make short work of you. That's how we got down at Kool Herc's parties. Like a lot of our stuff was never premeditated. I have heard when you interviewed other people and they said,"Well, guys come in and say I wanna battle you!"That wasn't my and the Twins experience! We took on people without them knowing we was coming. By the time we jumped your circle if you thought you was somebody it's too late to run.... You're trapped now!"

Castles In The Sky

Interview with DJ Clark Kent (The Herculoids) a.k.a. The Original B-Boy Poison c...

preciousgemsofknowledge79.blogspot.com

How, can Herc be the start of bboys/playing breaks for bboys when cats who eventualy got down with Herc, say it was already going on in Harlem and Dj Smokey's

 

[K.O.N.Y]

That wasn't the point.

Emceeing wasn't seen in the way we know it even after Herc. For years. But Coke started doing what we know as emceeing with Herc. No one said graffiti started with Herc, lol. Y'all just throwing everything at the wall and hoping it sticks, at this point.

This is about bringing the elements together and pushing the culture through action. Every pioneer credits Herc. So again, nobody cares what random posters online are going to say. The people who were there have spoken on this for over 5 decades. Agree or not, it's not gonna change the history, fam.

I take it you haven’t seen microphone check

Literally the “pioneers” saying otherwise and is the only documentary of its kind in existence

 

[Awesome Wells]

How, can Herc be the start of bboys/playing breaks for bboys when cats who eventualy got down with Herc, say it was already going on in Harlem and Dj Smokey's

You're in here having a conversation with yourself at this point, bro.

It's clear you're being selective with what you post, and you're not even reading the millions of articles you're copying and pasting. No one said dude started playing records or breaks. You've been responding to sh*t that nobody's said since you started in this thread. And ignoring facts that people have been posting. Just throwing wild random sh*t in the thread that doesn't change the history or even speak on what dudes are saying in here. Stay off of Google and actually spend time doing the knowledge on the topics you're mad thirsty to be a part of. Because right now, you're looking very remedial. LOL!!