Lord Jamar DEMOLISHES KRS-One's claim of Latinos pioneering Hip-Hop

[IllmaticDelta]

You clearly have trouble reading. So I'll write it again, so maybe someone in the room with you can tell you what's on the screen.

I said Herc was playing breaks, not cutting them.

Dude, you're clearly not comprehending anything I posted. I don't care what YOU said, I'm telling you what history (false history) claims as why/how HERC pioneered HIpHop, which is also based/centered on the concept of Herc so-called inventing "looped breaks" for BBoys

I didn't say he was the first. I said he was the first to go break to break to keep them continuing in what he calls his "five minute loop of fury".

I'm telling you that it never happened. This is what HERC actually claims to have done in 1973 in his own words:





But it's clearly a lie because those who were around, all say HERC was rocking one turntable and playing THE ENTIRE RECORD


(Trixie)

NORIN RAD: "When did you start breaking and who inspired you to start breaking?"

TRIXIE: "I'm gonna say it like this....Did nobody inspire me to start breaking 'cause I already knew how to dance. I started breakdancing in 1971, then 72,73...yeah, and I stopped dancing in 1974/75. When we did go to Herc's parties that's when I took it to another level. All my friends could tell you I already knew how to dance so it wasn't like I didn't know how to dance. Nobody did..I put it to you like this. My Mother was a dancer so I gotta say my mother kind of inspired me to dance."

NORIN RAD: "Is it true that breaking at that time was done mainly on top?"

TRIXIE:"Yeah,you would get into the move of it, you know?! Then once you see an opening then you come down to the ground and do your rolls, your spins, all of that....but you see there is a timing for that. A lot of people the way they are breaking right now all they do is the floormoves, they are not actually dancing. No! We didn't do it like that.You danced first then you break ..."Oh Boy, you now break Boy!" Then you come back up and you dance again.It was a dance. That's what it was. It was dance breaking."

Norin Rad:"And back then B-Boys used to dance to the whole song, right? Not just the break part?"

TRIXIE: "Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! From beginning to end! Whoever gets tired or whatever (against you)...you're the winner. Back in my time I could dance a whole album. A whole album by myself!"

Castles In The Sky: INTERVIEW WITH THE ORIGINAL B-BOY TRIXIE


.
.
(Niqqa Twins)



their thoughts

SIR NORIN RAD:"So in your era it was important to match the music with your moves?"

KEITH:" We knew that for every B-Boy record there was a break part that came because they didn't play just the break, they would play the whole record. If you play James Brown's "Give It Up Or Turn It Aloose" you had to wait for the "Clap your hands, stomp your feet.....Clyde!"- part. That's when the break came in. Herc wasn't mixing up those parts back and forth like that at that time (at his early parties). He would put one record on and then it would play all the way through. It was the same with "It's Just Begun", you know what I'm saying? After that saxophone part that's when the break came in and that's when you did whatever you had for that particular section. It was also the same with "Get Into Something" which was a very beautiful song to dance off of because it was so uptempo and then it had that break which was in the middle part of that song! Same thing with Baby Huey's "Listen To Me"...you know, you would be dancing that whole song and then that break part would come very late in that song. You had to have a lot of stuff going on to get to that break part and then when that break came in that's when you really had to go in....do some of your fiercest moves at that point. It was a lot different than it is today...the B-Boy thing, you know what I'm saying?"

Castles In The Sky


.
.
Ced Gee (west bronx) of ultramagnetic, witnessed early herc jams says it's a misconception that Herc was rocking with 2 turntables and looping in the early days. He makes it very clear that Herc was just playing the whole song on 1 turntable.





.
.



.
.

He was the one playing records for breaks that no one ever heard before. Which is why he would cover his labels, so people couldn't see the record titles. Flash and all the OG's credit him with being the first to do that. So Flash and everyone else is lying now too? The pioneers don’t know their own history?

Another exaggerated MYTH:

1) HERC jacked his early playlist from DJ John brown via the Plaza Tunnel

a fact, that Herc already owned up to







.
.
Now, some of these records may have been rare to those not in the know but they were played all over by many other djs



Even Herc's bboys was bringing him records.

And no, you do NOT have to cut to play breaks back to back. You do that with blending. You have clearly never been on turntables a day in your life. HAHA! Cutting has absolutely nothing to do with playing records back to back.

Dude, to loop breaks as HERC claims he was doing (see the video above when HErc describes what he claims to have done in 1973) with double copies you have to cut. Now, to mix, you don't have to loop,








but the thing with Herc, he wasn't doing either style. He just put the record on and let it play!


Dj Kool D (Bambatta's mentor) describing Herc's djing style

Herc was using tables that didn't even have faders early on. How TF was he gonna cut records?

Ask Herc that question, this is what he claims he was doing in 1973

It's wild to see outsiders trying to speak on sh*t they really don’t have a clue about. Stick to watching YouTube videos, fam. You don’t know a thing about this or even the history of this culture. That's clear.

You're clearly the one lacking the knowledge. Once I saw your thoughts on Ricans being in the culture from the start, I knew you didn't know sh1t and wasn't to be taken seriously

https://www.thecoli.com/search/1023466/?q=puerto&t=post&c[thread]=1039474&c[users]=Awesome+Wells&o=relevance

And you should never speak on Hip Hop again, after saying that Herc didn't have any skills. Yet, dude has inspired generations of legendary DJ's. Y'all dudes from outside the culture are way too comfortable speaking on it. With no knowledge.

Herc didn't inspire anyone with his dj skills; he was more known for his soundsystem + records

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Bro, if Herc was just biggin' himself up all day about his influence, that would be another story. I don’t care about documentaries and articles written by outside third parties, and voicing their opinion. I want to hear from the people that were actually there. The founders and pioneers who witnessed sh*t in real-time. Not cacs and random nobodies doing "research" and throwing their own opinion out on sh*t they weren't there for. When I was at Def Jam, I spent a lot of time building with Caz. His stories always went back to Herc being the one. Every other legend I've known who was around back then, same story.

So for 50+ years, Caz, Flash, Bam, Coke, Red Alert, and all the other OG's who saw it happen as it was happening, credit Herc. Point blank. This isn't about who "invented" breakdancing. That was being done during slavery. It's not about discovery. What it is about, is who took elements pre-Hip-Hop and brought them together to create an entire culture. We all know that's Herc.

I get the hoteps want to rewrite sh*t. That's what hoteps do. But that's not gonna change the history or any of the stories of the people who saw the culture actually shift to what it is today. So we can go back and forth all day about this, but I'm only going with what the actual legends who were there in person say. Y'all can keep the opinions and articles written by coffee shop cacs and weirdos to yourself, lol. That's never gonna fly. It never has.

more

.
.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

In all actuality, it wasn't started by a single person because it emerged out of already pre-existing AfroAmerican cultural traits/practices which consisted of:

dressing style



.
.


verbal-oral traditions






.
.


the music







.
.
.
the dance






.
.

the street knowledge



.
.
in summary:

 

[Plankton]

This is what I'm talking about. I can tell you didn't even fact check and watch the videos. The video with the 5%ers didn't have anything to do with BBoys or the DJ aspect and Illmatic even admitted it in post #279 despite him posting a video implying that it did. He knows ya'll don't even watch the videos so he thought he could get away with it but I watched the actual video and caught it and when I called him on it he tried to play it off but I still caught it. LOL He then posted an article where 5%ers were 1) at the parties and 2) had convos with Herc when Herc came to NYC from Jamaica. No real proof of 5% influence on the origins of Hip Hop culture itself, at all like he claimed. When I called him on it he used slick words to play it off when he said: "Dude, I never said those things..." but it wasn't what he said, it was the video he posted following what he said. His words and the video didn't match.


Not only that but I told him that the very article he posted concerning the 5%'ers had Herc as the "Single starting point", in which IllmaticDelta said Herc was only a "reference point" but Illmatic never posted any other articles with a DJ or DJs prior to Herc and 5%ers....He only posted the Herc/5%ers connection. When I told him that, he never responded again. LOL. Basically if the only article he has where there is a 5%er connection to Herc alone, then it contradicts what he originally said about Herc not being the beginner. Because it was IllmaticDelta who brought up the 5%ers to begin with but the only article he posted was an article linking the 5%ers to Herc only. So his own "proof" has Herc as the beginner.

This is how I know for a fact ya'll don't even watch the videos he posts nor do ya'll read the articles he posts because ya'll would have caught them too but ya'll never do. And he knows ya'll aint reading articles or watching videos and he takes advantage.

 

[Awesome Wells]

This is how I know for a fact ya'll don't even watch the videos he posts nor do ya'll read the articles he posts because ya'll would have caught them too but ya'll never do. And he knows ya'll aint reading articles or watching videos and he takes advantage.

FACTS!!

They ain't reading none of that sh*t. HE'S not even watching or reading any of it! Dude floods threads with wild random articles and videos to throw off the fact that he doesn't know sh*t. And then tries to come back on some "ta-da" bullsh*t, lol. But that's what people do when they don’t have a leg to stand on. His whole gimmick is corny, but it will work on the mindless. As we can see. Some fools can't be saved. Gotta let them drown.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

This is what I'm talking about. I can tell you didn't even fact check and watch the videos. The video with the 5%ers didn't have anything to do with BBoys or the DJ aspect and Illmatic even admitted it in post #279 despite him posting a video implying that it did. He knows ya'll don't even watch the videos so he thought he could get away with it but I watched the actual video and caught it and when I called him on it he tried to play it off but I still caught it. LOL He then posted an article where 5%ers were 1) at the parties and 2) had convos with Herc when Herc came to NYC from Jamaica. No real proof of 5% influence on the origins of Hip Hop culture itself, at all like he claimed. When I called him on it he used slick words to play it off when he said: "Dude, I never said those things..." but it wasn't what he said, it was the video he posted following what he said. His words and the video didn't match.


Not only that but I told him that the very article he posted concerning the 5%'ers had Herc as the "Single starting point", in which IllmaticDelta said Herc was only a "reference point" but Illmatic never posted any other articles with a DJ or DJs prior to Herc and 5%ers....He only posted the Herc/5%ers connection. When I told him that, he never responded again. LOL. Basically if the only article he has where there is a 5%er connection to Herc alone, then it contradicts what he originally said about Herc not being the beginner. Because it was IllmaticDelta who brought up the 5%ers to begin with but the only article he posted was an article linking the 5%ers to Herc only. So his own "proof" has Herc as the beginner.

This is how I know for a fact ya'll don't even watch the videos he posts nor do ya'll read the articles he posts because ya'll would have caught them too but ya'll never do. And he knows ya'll aint reading articles or watching videos and he takes advantage.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

FACTS!!

They ain't reading none of that sh*t. HE'S not even watching or reading any of it! Dude floods threads with wild random articles and videos to throw off the fact that he doesn't know sh*t. And then tries to come back on some "ta-da" bullsh*t, lol. But that's what people do when they don’t have a leg to stand on. His whole gimmick is corny, but it will work on the mindless. As we can see. Some fools can't be saved. Gotta let them drown.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

FACTS!!

They ain't reading none of that sh*t. HE'S not even watching or reading any of it! Dude floods threads with wild random articles and videos to throw off the fact that he doesn't know sh*t. And then tries to come back on some "ta-da" bullsh*t, lol. But that's what people do when they don’t have a leg to stand on. His whole gimmick is corny, but it will work on the mindless. As we can see. Some fools can't be saved. Gotta let them drown.

You like dealing with fiction; I only come with FACTS!


DJ Smokey predated Herc in Herc's own area! He started in 1972!








.

.
Many names that came to be associated with Herc, were SMOKETRONS first!









.
.
.
Dj Smokey had who's who of early HipHop at his Jams; Flash was his record boy!








.
.

sureshot_la_rock​

The man, the myth, the legend... the countless number of DJs, MCs, and bboys birthed from the parties in Apt 5D on 169th and Grant Ave are countless... Grandmaster Flash, Mele Mel, Pow Wow, Almighty Kay Gee, and countless others. Herc's nemesis... A man Phase2 held in the highest regard and for good reason... the grand incredible DJ Smokey... his dancers represented the first bboy and bgirl crews in existence... The Smoke-a-trons and Luck-a-trons go back to at least 1974... #knowyourhistory #knowyourroots #rockrockon

sureshot_la_rock​

@hiphopenthusiast1 First of all, what does something Paradise said about Mario and two turntables and a mixer have to do with this discussion about the Smokeatrons? Second, Phase2 flew the Smokey flag! As a matter of fact, he made it a point of keeping his name alive when cats talked about Herc and didn't mention Smokey. He wasn't taking anything away from Herc... He was just combating the false narrative that there was only one guy doing it... And you do know Mel is on tape multiple times saying the first time he ever saw a DJ and experienced hip hop was at a Smokey party, right?.. He literally said that.. at least twice... Once on a documentary Phase2 was involved with putting together! But back to the topic at hand... the Smokeatrons... Pow Wow was a Zulu King who said he first saw the Smokeatrons before he was a Zulu King. Matter of fact, and I quote, Pow Wow states, "To me at that time the Smokeatrons was the baddest bboy crew out".. Ron, one of the Smokeatrons actuallt taught Pow Wow to dance! He taught him that "hardcore bboy shyt"... you also know Flash was one of Smokey's record boys and used to go to his jams on Grant Ave... props to Flash for studying Smokey and then Herc to take things to the next level but cmon man... he was at Smokey's with Marcus Rockwell (another Zulu King).. Clark Kent, the Twins, Almighty KayGee.. they all started at Smokeys... DST talks about him, too... but I'm confused? Mean Gene literally says him and Flash went to "Smokey's house... we went there to hang out and listen to him playing music. Smokey was a brother that played music EVERY SINGLE DAY outside in front of his building. We always went over there for the block parties. We were breakdancing over there, did our thing and we left. Smokey's spot and also Lucky's spot were our main stomping grounds for doing our dancing. You are correct about that."


.
.

Listen closely!








.
.
Smokey and Herc were BOTH influenced by the Dj John Brown and what was going on at the Plaza Tunnel





.
.
It's gonna get real spooky out here for the Herc narrative when that Dj John Brown interview drops

.















^^Herc's direct influence


.
.

Dj John Brown's son posted in this video

@dremarwil6456​

1 day ago (edited)
Gonna send this to John Brown. I saw Bam Bam a month ago...I should have picked his brain, about the Tunnel. Very animated cat. RIP Little Roy!!!

​

@hiphophistorian5476
@hiphophistorian5476
1 day ago
We need that John Brown interview!!!! It would be great if somehow we could also get a Bam Bam interview.

@dreval7957​

1 day ago (edited)
He wants to tell his story, but someone has first dibbs on his story, possibly to be told in another doc. So, I would say, he is being held back for the time being. I can't tell much because of constraints, plus the fact that he should be the one that tells his entire story. When he tells his story, people will definitely trip out. His story is very much relative to what is being done today. I've spoken to 4 people that partied at the Tunnel...n they all say It was, black culture being displayed, predominantly by Black people, mostly young (about 400-500) kids, expressing themselves through dance. Everyone talks about the strobe light. Every seems to remember the strobe.

@JohnBrown-eq4ts​

1 day ago
I’m his son, as soon as we finish a prior project. We will be open to interviews

 

[Plankton]

I'm mad because I watched the videos posted and you didn't?
That doesn't make sense but if you say so.


And ya boy still hasn't posted a 5%er connection that isn't Herc. Thats why he didn't dap your Camron emoji comment. Ya boy been dodging that one for days now, but I'll let u tell it.

 

[King Sun]

bunch of dudes invested in some bs diaspora war shyt. This always happens around election time.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I'm mad because I watched the videos posted and you didn't?
That doesn't make sense but if you say so.


And ya boy still hasn't posted a 5%er connection that isn't Herc. Thats why he didn't dap your Camron emoji comment. Ya boy been dodging that one for days now, but I'll let u tell it.

 

[Plankton]

I literally watched every video u just posted and NONE OF THE VIDEOS YOU POSTED HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH 5%ers or A 5%ers CONNECTION THAT ISN'T HERC

I hope these dikk riders can now see how much of a liar you really are






1st Video says nothing about 5%ers


2nd video says nothing about 5%ers. Its just a history of breaking and when Puerto Ricans got involved



3rd video........This is where you really fukked up.


This is the 2nd thing you posted that has Herc as the only connection of the 5% to Hip Hop, meaning Herc is the starting point.

And....

This article is the 1st thing you posted that has Herc as the only connection with the 5% and Hip Hop, meaning he is, again, the starting point. You literally posted 2 things that say Herc is the starting point.







4th video says nothing about 5%ers


So not only were you trolling posting 3 videos that have nothing to do with 5% you posted 2 things that say Herc was the starting point of the 5% connection to Hip Hop. Remember, it was you who said in post #279 that Herc was a "reference point" not a "starting point." If that were true you were supposed to post a 5% connection with a DJ or DJs that came before Herc and you can't which makes Herc the "starting point." Hold this L liar

 

[kingofnyc]

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

@ MC Shan's tiny input to this debate, very poor and crack fiend like!

 

[DaHNIC82]

He shut KRS the fukk up