Lord Jamar DEMOLISHES KRS-One's claim of Latinos pioneering Hip-Hop

[The Solid One]

Cholly Rock who was in Tariqs documentary claims DJ Grandmaster Flowers was not a Hip Hop DJ during it's origin but more a Disco DJ who later jumped on the wagon once Hip Hop became more popular. Cholly Rock was very adament about seperating who was there at first and who wasn't because he claims a lot of the disco DJs hated Hip Hop at first.


So if you gonna disregard King Charles then we gonna disregard Flowers too because Cholly Rock was there and you weren't.


CheckMate

@IllmaticDelta

He have a point here...

 

[NYC Rebel]

I mean I understand I'm just saying what it was.

I know this...I went to the Puerto Rican day parade in 01' (my daughters grandfather on their mom side is a Black Puerto Rican). It was during the NBA finals between Sixers and Lakers when A.I. had the culture on lock. I kid you not....half the Ricans there were rocking the white one arm sleeve, panty hose, socks on the arm, all sorts of shyt because A.I. ran the culture. That shyt blew my mind but not in a way where it was abstract because...Rican kids were doing what the Black were doing for as long as I knew of them.

]there's not a single latino group in this country as meshed to Hip Hop culture as New York Ricans are. It's why I HATE that "latino" umbrella used by Fat Joe and others. You got Mexicans bytching that they weren't at Kendrick's pop up as if they had that type of relationship with Blacks in LA.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Cholly Rock who was in Tariqs documentary claims DJ Grandmaster Flowers was not a Hip Hop DJ during it's origin but more a Disco DJ who later jumped on the wagon once Hip Hop became more popular. Cholly Rock was very adament about seperating who was there at first and who wasn't because he claims a lot of the disco DJs hated Hip Hop at first.


So if you gonna disregard King Charles then we gonna disregard Flowers too because Cholly Rock was there and you weren't.


CheckMate

Next thing you know, Disco DJ's took hip hops DJ style of looping the hot part of a disco song to keep the parties moving.

shyt is wild.

New York was the greatest music city in the world when I was a child.

 

[Walt]

Nah, you're right.

Apart from other than like Grant Projects, West Harlem didn't have a lot of Spanish people.

Spanish Harlem wasn't really where you'd see any black people back then either. You had to go West for that. But in the South Bronx, that was mad mixed. That whole Mott Haven section was very mixed. From the 130's by Willis Ave and Brook Ave all the way up to Third Ave and beyond.

Mott Haven for sure was mixed. But nikkas were definitely all over East Harlem. They might've been outnumbered on certain blocks by
Ricans, but they were all over from Jackie Robinson projects down to James Weldon Johnson. All over. Come on now. And I'm not being antagonistic, I'm actually agreeing with almost everything you've said thus far.

 

[The War Report]

I know this...I went to the Puerto Rican day parade in 01' (my daughters grandfather on their mom side is a Black Puerto Rican). It was during the NBA finals between Sixers and Lakers when A.I. had the culture on lock. I kid you not....half the Ricans there were rocking the white one arm sleeve, panty hose, socks on the arm, all sorts of shyt because A.I. ran the culture. That shyt blew my mind but not in a way where it was abstract because...Rican kids were doing what the Black were doing for as long as I knew of them.

]there's not a single latino group in this country as meshed to Hip Hop culture as New York Ricans are. It's why I HATE that "latino" umbrella used by Fat Joe and others. You got Mexicans bytching that they weren't at Kendrick's pop up as if they had that type of relationship with Blacks in LA.

Ricans paved the way for other Hispanic groups to get into it. Dominicans, Colombians, Cubans, etc.

 

[The War Report]

Speak of the devil. @Walt

 

[Neuromancer]

The God arrives.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Mott Haven for sure was mixed. But nikkas were definitely all over East Harlem. They might've been outnumbered on certain blocks by
Ricans, but they were all over from Jackie Robinson projects down to James Weldon Johnson. All over. Come on now. And I'm not being antagonistic, I'm actually agreeing with almost everything you've said thus far.

Facts.

Mott Haven was mad balanced. As far as East Harlem, I had cousins that lived in Taino, but also down by Johnson, Taft, and all that.

But I was talking about further up in La Barrio and after La Marqueta's and all that. That was heavily Hispanic. Back when there was like 3-4 Cuchifritos spots on every block. N*ggas was outnumbered crazily. In those sections, I wouldn't see too many of us. But further down, definitely.

 

[Walt]

Speak of the devil. @Walt

Glad he has his dentures or whatever in. I actually have a soft spot for Ag. He's a talent with the beats. Saw him recently and he didn't seem like he was in the best shape. Wild drunk and missing his fronts. Wish there was a fund for old school Hip Hop cats to gets medical handled and shyt.

 

[Walt]

Facts.

Mott Haven was mad balanced. As far as East Harlem, I had cousins that lived in Taino, but also down by Johnson, Taft, and all that.

But I was talking about further up in La Barrio and after La Marqueta's and all that. That was heavily Hispanic. Back when there was like 3-4 Cuchifritos spots on every block. N*ggas was outnumbered crazily. In those sections, I wouldn't see too many of us. But further down, definitely.

Side note - I lived in MH-AK projects on East 126th, had fam in Fort Greene PJs, Wagner, Johnson, etc and none of them seemed quite as grim as Mott Haven Homes to me. Yeesh.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Glad he has his dentures or whatever in. I actually have a soft spot for Ag. He's a talent with the beats. Saw him recently and he didn't seem like he was in the best shape. Wild drunk and missing his fronts. Wish there was a fund for old school Hip Hop cats to gets medical handled and shyt.

Damn.

Haven't seen dude in person since I was in my teens, but I always thought he was a dope producer. Rooted for him a lot. But he got caught up on a lot of issues away from the music, and I think that derailed his whole career.

 

[Walt]

Damn.

Haven't seen dude in person since I was in my teens, but I always thought he was a dope producer. Rooted for him a lot. But he got caught up on a lot of issues away from the music, and I think that derailed his whole career.

Saw him in the theater at a Tribeca Film Festival joint. He had people with him and actually got shouted out by the film's director.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Side note - I lived in MH-AK projects on East 126th, had fam in Fort Greene PJs, Wagner, Johnson, etc and none of them seemed quite as grim as Mott Haven Homes to me. Yeesh.

I don’t even think we realized it fully back then because we were kids. But it was a wild era. Kids were robbing kids. Just walking through Mott Haven or Paterson projects back then, you might get got, if you had a bag with sh*t you bought from Third Ave. 9-10 years old, I went to cop Kane's second album from The Wiz on Third Ave, about to walk out the store and it was mad kids from Mill Brook Houses out there waiting for me, lol. Security guard looked out for me and kept my bike downstairs with him.

When I was leaving, he told me I should probably leave out the side because the kids looked like they were scheming on taking my bike. I tucked the Kane CD, and had to peddle like a MF when I got outside! No more than 10 years old! That's how it was back then. If you weren't deep in those areas with mad of your people, you had to be crafty as sh*t to get back home.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Now are you gonna post the video with Cholly Rock saying Flowers was not a Hip Hop DJ in it's origin or should I post it?

@IllmaticDelta

He have a point here...

Flowers WASN"T a HipHop DJ for 2 reasons:

1) He was doing his thing 4-5 years before HipHop
2) To Cholly Rock who was a bboy, Flowers wasn't connected to bboys


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Now, to put #2 into its proper context, you have to be aware of the sneakers (bboys) vs shoes (so-called "Disco Rappers"), dynamic


1) Cholly Rock started off as a bboy and because of that, HE DIDN"T CONSIDER mc/rappers and turntablism as HIPHOP

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2) The Bronx scene DIDN'T HAVE RAPPERS, that originated in HARLEM amongst the likes of Dj Hollywood and Eddie Cheeba. LUVBUG STARSKI who is actually from the BRONX started as a HOLLYWOOD clone and then started running in those circles




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3) The BRONX didn't have RAPPERS prior to the HARLEM cats/HARLEM style influencing them

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4) BRONX only had bboys as their "HipHop" element







and this is why Cholly Rock, who was first a bboy, sees HipHop mainly through that lens

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5) Flowers NEVER catered to BBOYS; he's the/a root of the DJing and MC aspect though via KC the Prince of Soul. They both were in the same circles as Dj Hollywood, Eddie Cheeba, Pete Dj JOnes and Luvbug Starski

Do you remember the kinds of records you were playing in that early ’70s period?

I was playing most of the hits, like James Brown… I think what created hip-hop was the multi-ethnic music in the New York area. Every DJ had an MC.

Did you have one?

Yeah, KC The Prince Of Soul. I stole him from Flowers. He started MCing with me around 1971, then I had JD The Disco Prince, then I had Lovebug Starski.


Lovebug Starski - You've Gotta Believe
When did you start using MCs?

I started MCing myself, I used to like talking over the music. You got guys like Kool Herc and Bambaataa that claimed they started hip-hop, they gotta remember that hip-hop emerged from R&B. I had a lot of rappers say they was influenced by me. These rappers started emerging about 1975 and 1976.

“That Special Beat:” An Interview with One of Hip-Hop’s Founders, Pete DJ Jones

More and more DJs were incorporating emcees into their sets; that is, having someone on the microphone shouting out the DJ and keeping the party moving. KC Prince of Soul, Grandmaster Flowers’ emcee, was the first to talk over a record—imitating popular radio DJ Hank Spann of WWRL. Soon after, Harlem’s DJ Hollywood began talking over his mixes and became more famous for his wordplay than for his deejaying. Hollywood’s street fame led to him selling copies of his deejay sets around the way at barbershops and bodegas. On the strength of their party-friendly approach, Eddie Cheeba and DJ Hollywood became the house DJs at Harlem’s Club 371.

A Toast to Grandmaster Flash: Hip-hop Pioneer, Turntable Wizard and Superhero DJ


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so basically the sneaker crowd was the bboys (bronx) and the shoe crowd originated the rapper (Harlem rooted, then to the Brox)





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So, to answer your question: To the bboys, Flowers wasn't HipHop as he didn't cater to bboys

but to the Djs, Flowers was HipHop/a big influence on HipHop

 

[IllmaticDelta]

FACTS!

Everyone knows that Flowers was a disco DJ. Later on, he switched over to chillin' with Flash and got down with Bam and them.

Flowers didn't hang out with them dudes what actually happened is, the 2 scenes merged. The rapping came from the Hollywood/Pete Dj Jones/Flowers etc.. scene and merged with the Bronx bboy scene to create the 4 element form that we know today