Lord Jamar DEMOLISHES KRS-One's claim of Latinos pioneering Hip-Hop

[IllmaticDelta]

Posting a Snoop and Tupac gif is yet another distraction from answering the question but thats not gonna work today.

So I'll ask it again

@spliz said "If he's saying hip hop started outside of the Bronx. Yes. Wrong. If he's saying hip hop got influence from outside of the Bronx. He's right. 2 different things tho."

And you said Flowers was the TRUE god of black NYC djs.

So are you saying Flowers and Jones started Hip Hop or they influenced it???


The reason u won't answer is because Spliz shytted on your answer before u could say it..


Spliz I hope you are seeing this.

let's see what Spliz said, to what you said:

So @IllmaticDelta got it wrong. Gotcha. Say more.

If he's saying hip hop started outside of the Bronx. Yes. Wrong. If he's saying hip hop got influence from outside of the Bronx. He's right. 2 different things tho.

Here's what I've said/posted many times in various threads

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/tariq-akademiks-arguing-over-origins-of-hip-hop.924934/post-46388693

HipHop, presented as a 4 element culture started in the Bronx but the individual parts came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY

rapping dj's syncopated style with 2 turntables + mixer = harlem

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graf = philly and then exported to manhattan via topcat 126

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soundsystems (mobile jock) = queens and brooklyn





early bboying = brooklyn/harlem/bronx
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gang culture = bronx....specifically, the black spades

@Plankton , you thought you had me stuck?

come stronger next time

 

[Amestafuu (Emeritus)]

I hear that. But I feel hip hop is more "American" music.

Like there's Barbados and Jamaican influence in terms of background but I feel what WAS chosen in terms of sound for hip hop was perfect and done right. Even what Jamar says about Jamaican influence.

The slow roots reggae sound, mcing, "selecta" dj influence - more so than calypso - mixed with soul and funk I feel that's what led to the golden era sound.

I do feel Spanish and white influence was there.
Spanish in terms of possibly break dancing and white in terms of UK, punk rock independence, "noise", and sampled artists like Bob James.

Greats like Ghostface acknowledge this.

Watch me get aired out here because anything I say regarding race does.

But there's some melting pot mix, and American synergy I feel about the origin of hip hop sound. But even that - yes, credibility does go to ppl from Barbados and Jamaica that innovated and created the artform.

I do believe Spanish ppl did influence the origins.
Partially.

shut up fakkit

you irk me so much with your possum play but you always reveal yourself.

white people have 0 claim to this Black American artform just because of samples. are you kidding? the conversation is about pioneers. Bob James is a pioneer because of samples? you not slick.... i see you for what you are. one of those early 00's chronically online "this is real hip hop" hiphopsite.com crakkkas and you got a bias. Accept the fact that you perform in a Black artform. you don't need to steal credit to find comfort.

 

[Art Barr]

let's see what Spliz said, to what you said:







Here's what I've said/posted many times in various threads

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/tariq-akademiks-arguing-over-origins-of-hip-hop.924934/post-46388693

@Plankton , you thought you had me stuck?

come stronger next time

Your motive for posting this is welled in false doctrine.
Plus deflection.

Not to mention. You gave no rant on said link at all. So we know you flaug'n. Plus you never reviewed material here ever. To easily expose you are a toy.

As the birth of hiphop culture.
in the ol school and new school way of thought occurred.
To combat the sellout c00n'n that revolved around rnb and ill social practices of disco. Which is an offshoot of rnb.
As well as disco and go go are culturally lacking rnb based constructs.

That is why you making all these post is false doctrine. As you do not understand.
the origins of hiphop.
plus you are not a part of hiphop.

What chu write?

notice you can not answer because you are not hiphop?
you are lost.
Then showcase disconnect.


You have a disconnect. As you are a toy. Trying to negate the origins of hiphop culture. To fit your toy based narrative. That is easily countered.
with the origin of hiphop culture and how the pillars of hiphop all united from being formerly splintered. Plus created before hiphop culture was derived as necessary. To see those skills of the pillar live on. Past their original fad based shelf life.


Art Barr

@IllmaticDelta
The bolded exposes you.
You tried to post a bunch of gifs in mass overload.

When I already said.
what you posted using gif's and youtube links. you fukk'n goofie.

You exposed and done here.


Sit yo toy ass down and stfu.



Art Barr

 

[Plankton]

HipHop, presented as a 4 element culture started in the Bronx but the individual parts came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY

The rest of that bullshyt u posted is a distraction. So lets focus on what u said here:

Now...U just admitted

the individual parts came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY


Lets go back to what I had originally said in post #92 about the Jamaican, King Charles being before Kool Herc

What about the Jamacian, DJ King Charles who was late 60s Hip Hop before Herc?

You then mentioned Flowers and Pete Jones correct?

So Flowers, Pete Jones and King Charles would be included in the individual parts that came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY

I mean you tried it with the Flowers 66 vs King Charles 68 nonsense after the fact but again you first said

the individual parts came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY

And you didn't specify what year or by who when u said that...u literally said "various parts" and those various parts would include the Jamacian, DJ King Charles influence.

CheckMate

 

[CHAIN]

@IllmaticDelta.

If you identify as black, you should understand how to important it is to be 'On Code' when it comes to these matters. As a B1 non-fba person I understand that there should be no debate about the origins of Hip-Hop. It's Black American (FBA) culture. Claiming 'others' helped creating it dilutes it and takes away power from its backbone / cornerstone. If you as a black person allow this to be the narrative you are leaving the door open for the powers-that-be and other 'tall' individuals to sneak their way in and claim ownership. It happened before and it will happen again. We'll all lose collectively if y'all bachata merengue cats don't let Black Americans have their moment.

Get out the way. Who are you fighting for here?
Stand down.

 

[spliz]

The rest of that bullshyt u posted is a distraction. So lets focus on what u said here:

Now...U just admitted

the individual parts came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY


Lets go back to what I had originally said in post #92 about the Jamaican, King Charles being before Kool Herc

What about the Jamacian, DJ King Charles who was late 60s Hip Hop before Herc?

You then mentioned Flowers and Pete Jones correct?

So Flowers, Pete Jones and King Charles would be included in the individual parts that came from various parts of NYC and some, even outside of NY

I mean you tried it with the Flowers 66 vs King Charles 68 nonsense after the fact but again you first said

And you didn't specify what year or by who when u said that...u literally said "various parts" and those various parts would include the Jamacian, DJ King Charles influence.

CheckMate

Hip hop is a black American based and created culture that originated in the Bronx and was participated in and contributed by other groups such as Jamaicans and Puerto Ricans. There's no debate about this shyt. It's facts.

 

[Plankton]

Hip hop is a black American based and created culture that originated in the Bronx and was participated in and contributed by other groups such as Jamaicans and Puerto Ricans. There's no debate about this shyt. It's facts.

I agree.

 

[Awesome Wells]

"It was going on in 1970, and it wasn't going anywhere after 1973"

"I saw breakdancers going off in the Tunnel in 1970"


HE's clearly saying that HipHop already existed!




If the ingredients existed already, then it would be impossible for Herc to be the creator of it.



Herc never did such a thing!:

Herc didn't RAP

HERC didn't make bboys dance to the breaks, they already were doing that!

HERC didn't create the FASHION

HERC didn't coin the term "HIPHOP"

HERC didn't loop breaks

You really don’t know your Hip Hop.

Herc always said he was doing it before '73, but the stuff he was doing wasn't RECOGNIZED until then. He said he was doing everything years before, but people didn't catch wind until that first party in '73.

He's the one that started doing the "Merry-Go-Round". Playing breaks back to back and letting the b-boys dance to just that. That was his way of looping on the tables. He started that. Herc started out as a rapper first. The call and response while playing records was what he was doing before Coke took over for him. Every founder like Caz, Mel, Flash, Bam and others who were there credit him with all of these things. But you're gonna tell people otherwise because you've been watching YouTube videos that says DJ Fat Burger was the one who did it first? LOL!! Come on, bro.

 

[Awesome Wells]

@IllmaticDelta does this thing where he'll post a bunch of irrelevant videos that either contradict a point or go off topic to a point. And he will execute it as if he is correcting someone but 50% of the time he's just posting a bunch of videos as a distraction. A few posters fall for it and dap him up as if he made a point ( some will dap him 1 minute after a post filled with videos that are over 1 minute confirming they didnt even watch the videos) but when you actually watch the videos and compare them to the point he's debating 50% of the time the videos dont even match the point he is contesting. And according to him he is never wrong even when he is proven wrong.

FACTS!

Bro just posted 17 videos that didn't even speak on anything. There's a million videos online with pioneers speaking on Herc doing all these things first and founding Hip Hop, as we know it. Mad videos with Caz and Melle Mel, Red Alert, etc. Magically none of those made dude's long list of irrelevant clips, lol.

 

[Supa]

Depending on where u were in the city shyt was separated. Manhattan DJs n shyt was still on the Disco shyt. Hip hop's history is way more complicated than portrayed. There's alot to it. Like when people try to say Hip hop originated in Jamaica. Hip hop started HERE and was rooted in American black music. Herc being Jamaican doesn't change that. But when people try to say Jamaicans wasnt there from jump is a lie as well. Jamaican Americans def was there from the jump. Herc being one of em. People confusing and conflating history be getting this shyt all twisted.

Herc said out his own mouth that he never played reggae or any Jamaican music at those parties because the crowd wouldn't fukk with it being that they were black Americans.

Charley Chase said this out his own mouth:

He’s black, right?

Yeah, he’s black. And then he’s like, “Nah, I’m Tone – that’s Chase,” And then they turn to me and see this Puerto Rican, all wide-eyed and shyt… “He ain’t fukkin Chase. What the fukk are you talkin’ about?” They would not accept it. I was getting heat not only from the blacks, but also from the Puerto Ricans.

Why?

I’m telling you, I’m the first Hispanic…no one else was doing it. I’m a Hispanic trying to get into the black music, and they’re like, “What the fukk are you doing?” I’m not lying to you. That’s the way it was. So, I’m getting heat from both sides.

People didn't even believe he was Charley Chase because he wasn't black. How is that possible if Ricans had so much presence?

Everyone acts like there was this united front of blacks and Ricans when that wasn't the case. The music, DJ'ing, and breaking were all black. A few Ricans came along and participated but it wasn't their culture. They were outsiders and they all admit to getting push back from their families and friends for hanging around black kids.

Graffiti was the element of the culture that was all inclusive but the elements that revolved around music were black.

What I find funny is that we all know that Jazz, Soul, Rock, and just about every major impactful form of American music is rooted in black creators but somehow hip hop isn't. We have a tradition of creativity so if Ricans are so creative where the other genres they created that spread globally?

I don't see why they can't just say that hip hop is black music while still acknowledging their contributions. Tell them to add up all the Ricans who impacted the culture and then compare that number to the black people who did. Why aren't they impacting the culture now? Why aren't they creating dances that go viral or influencing fashion? We lead they follow and that's been the case.

Someone needs to explain how 95% of the most important and greatest rappers are all black but Puerto Ricans created the music.

 

[The Dust King]

OG spades that started in Bronxdale were 5% and NOI influenced and formed in part because of Ricans trying to bully black youth





Most HipHop historians who mention the Black Spades never bring up why they were formed


















OG wardlord Bam Bam of the Spades talks about it here (2:48). He said they used to call Ricans "Germans" lol

@TKALYPSOX​

1 year ago
Mr. Wayne (or anyone with knowledge of that time period), Elder Bam Bam mentioned that black members of the community were being assaulted by the "Germans." He stated that was what they referred to them as, who is he referring to as the "Germans?"

@bxdale83​

1 year ago
Puerto Ricans

@bxdale83​

10 months ago
@IAMHIPHOP974 Germans was a slur specifically for Puerto Ricans

@bxdale83​

9 months ago
I don't know why they continue to ignore that. As Bam Bam said in this video and according to the Spade founders David Brockington and Guru they mobilized after the beef they had with Puerto Ricans in JHS 123. Now not all Puerto Ricans and blacks had drama but often times it were the PR's that came straight from the island that were not used to black/Latino relationships and often stayed with their kind.



.
.
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that picture you saw with "9 Puerto Ricans" wasn't anywhere near the Spades region of origin

you dont debate faithfully, your a nas stan AND a tariq stan

i was at the hiphop 50 show and nas said herc the godfather and cyndi the godmother

no one disagreed except tariq and his 50k stans

agallah just asked if he was a guest in hiphop

everybody said NO

i honestly dont read your posts because i caught you lying multiple times

my history >>>>>>> every coli fba poster

nas word and history >>>>>>>every coli fba poster

nile rodgers word and history>>>>>>> every coli fba poster

paid in full posse history >>>>> coli fba


original spades members >>>>> coli fba


evryone >>>>>> coli fba and tariq

 

[The Dust King]

Herc said out his own mouth that he never played reggae or any Jamaican music at those parties because the crowd wouldn't fukk with it being that they were black Americans.

Charley Chase said this out his own mouth:



People didn't even believe he was Charley Chase because he wasn't black. How is that possible if Ricans had so much presence?

Everyone acts like there was this united front of blacks and Ricans when that wasn't the case. The music, DJ'ing, and breaking were all black. A few Ricans came along and participated but it wasn't their culture. They were outsiders and they all admit to getting push back from their families and friends for hanging around black kids.

Graffiti was the element of the culture that all inclusive but the elements that revolved around music were black.

What I find funny is that we all know that Jazz, Soul, Rock, and just about every major impactful form of American music is rooted in black creators but somehow hip hop isn't. We have a tradition of creativity so if Ricans are so creative where the other genres they created that spread globally?

I don't see why they can't just say that hip hop is black music while still acknowledging their contributions. Tell them to add up all the Ricans who impacted the culture and then compare that number to the black people who did. Why aren't they impacting the culture now? Why aren't they creating dances that go viral or influencing fashion? We lead they follow and that's been the case.

you nikkaz is mad slow , spics come in every color

hiphop was JUST starting and yall sayin a few ricans jus showed up?

yall straight up historical frauds

pictures alone prove yall wrong

plenty of black ricans that nobody was pointing at when u can point at chase light skin ass or the fat joes etc

in NYC plenty brothers and sisters and family members come in every shade

telling light skin people or mixed people they are half breeds or belong to some sub culture

thas what this is really about

and wit that said that shyt is NOT flying in here

this MY thread and MY culture, for all i kno yall some secret cacs causin divide

matter of fact ima spread this thread aroun this weekend

agallah already set it off asking if he is a guest @Walt ( tagged u so can gossip

 

[Black Lightning]

 

[The Dust King]

ima quote random nobodies with colonizer mindsets

yea nobody gives a fukk about yall denying history.

anybodyin quantifying the sound of the carib as reggae or clashin is a fukkin moron and should slap the shyt out themself

thas a lot of u

 

[Awesome Wells]

Everyone acts like there was this united front of blacks and Ricans when that wasn't the case. The music, DJ'ing, and breaking were all black. A few Ricans came along and participated but it wasn't their culture. They were outsiders and they all admit to getting push back from their families and friends for hanging around black kids.

Nah, it's like Caz always says, there were Hispanics there from the beginning too. But there were just way more of us back then, than them. Disco Wiz, Caz's first DJ and music partner, was Puerto Rican and Cuban. Chase was Puerto Rican, and he founded Cold Crush with Caz. So there were Latino's there at the start. It's like Flash says, nobody took b-boying to the heights of where it was, like the Hispanic dancers back then. Around '78-'79, they were the ones basically running that sh*t.

I grew up across the street from the original Rocksteady Park. After school, as kids, we would walk by the park and it would be all Hispanic dudes breaking in there. Crazy Legs, Mr. Wiggles, and all them dudes were the faces of breaking back then. A lot of the early b-boys and DJ's were Hispanic. Were there more of us than them? Definitely. But they were there.