I had on another thread.
Wish reps were back. Thanks! if you find anything on Nubian war elephants please share.
Lets Talk African History: Ancient Nubia
- Thread starter Bawon Samedi
- Start date
Wish reps were back. Thanks! if you find anything on Nubian war elephants please share.
Misreeya
Pro
We still have good farmland now, so i don't think it will be that different from the past. Just my two cents.
@Misreeya @MansaMusa a good documentary on mostly Nubian spiritual beliefs that i remember making a thread about.
And no Eurocentric bias like with most Nile civilization documentaries.
And no Eurocentric bias like with most Nile civilization documentaries.
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
I'll watch this weekend. Great thread! I'm learning so much. I wish there was a way where we can produce online history about Africa for Africans in the diaspora. With lesson plans and everything....
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
But actually @Misreeya and @KidStranglehold - think about it.
Some members on here wanted to do that. But never happened.
Anyways instead we have Tariq Nasheed. While his HC docs are noble and VERY GOOD when it comes to discussion white supremacy/racism but on a historical side it has too many errors for it to be taken seriously as a doc for black/African history.
Misreeya
Pro
I think the spiritual beliefs throughout the nile valley was nearly uniformed. Amun-Ra, Isis etc. I understand among the meroites(Roman period) what is today Modern day Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan they worshiped "gods such as apedemak, and Sebiumeker which was worshiped among the Meroites.
Apedemak
The indians interact with online believe that Apedemak is similar to their "gods". I am not sure since Apedemak is a "god" of war.
and Isis was definitely revered not only among the Meroites and Egypt Rome, but throughout the known world at that time.
Aegis of Isis Kawa today Sudan.
http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1.8-AEGISOFISIS.pdf
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I think the spiritual beliefs throughout the nile valley was nearly uniformed. Amun-Ra, Isis etc. I understand among the meroites(Roman period) what is today Modern day Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan they worshiped "gods such as apedemak, and Sebiumeker which was worshiped among the Meroites.
Apedemak
The indians interact with online believe that Apedemak is similar to their "gods". I am not sure since Apedemak is a "god" of war.
and Isis was definitely revered not only among the Meroites and Egypt Rome, but throughout the known world at that time.
Aegis of Isis Kawa today Sudan.
http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1.8-AEGISOFISIS.pdf
I think the spiritual beliefs throughout the nile valley was nearly uniformed. Amun-Ra, Isis etc. I understand among the meroites(Roman period) what is today Modern day Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan they worshiped "gods such as apedemak, and Sebiumeker which was worshiped among the Meroites.
Apedemak
The indians interact with online believe that Apedemak is similar to their "gods". I am not sure since Apedemak is a "god" of war.
and Isis was definitely revered not only among the Meroites and Egypt Rome, but throughout the known world at that time.
Aegis of Isis Kawa today Sudan.
http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1.8-AEGISOFISIS.pdf
Misreeya
Pro
Indeed, it is interesting, and modern day mainly Europeans Isis worshipers utilized that piece in many websites. It is a fine work of art.
Here is the elephants you looking for, common back then but not now.
From western tourist.
Elephant relief, Lion Temple, Musawwarat by Brian McMorrow
and from the same writer i posted, he mentioned elephants in his book.
https://books.google.com/books?id=jF2jq5JrkS4C&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=nubian+and+war+elephants&source=bl&ots=SK70itxB3f&sig=9Gxj5YCJR0wZt3iRM0AOvWiIWOg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJnKaE0Y3QAhVJh1QKHf5mBwMQ6AEIVjAN#v=onepage&q=nubian and war elephants&f=false
Indeed, it is interesting, and modern day mainly Europeans Isis worshipers utilized that piece in many websites. It is a fine work of art.
Here is the elephants you looking for, common back then but not now.
From western tourist.
Elephant relief, Lion Temple, Musawwarat by Brian McMorrow
and from the same writer i posted, he mentioned elephants in his book.
https://books.google.com/books?id=jF2jq5JrkS4C&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=nubian+and+war+elephants&source=bl&ots=SK70itxB3f&sig=9Gxj5YCJR0wZt3iRM0AOvWiIWOg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJnKaE0Y3QAhVJh1QKHf5mBwMQ6AEIVjAN#v=onepage&q=nubian and war elephants&f=false
Thanks! But I believe I seen those images in question, not sure. My main concern is not just if they are elephants but were they used in war.
Misreeya
Pro
Read the link i posted above, it mentioned what you wanted.
To @MansaMusa Here is a thread i created some time ago, i just displayed some monuments in North Sudan, and what they have in some Museum. Although i think i went off topic since the subject of the thread was mainly pertaining to Amara West Settlement and the monuments in that area. Enjoy.
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/anci...ent-temple-in-what-is-now-north-sudan.393316/
I don't know why I didnt see the link. Anyways thanks again. It confirms that the Nubians trained war elephants and exported them to Ptolemaic Egypt but still looking for a source that states Nubians themselves were using war elephants against their enemies. Still looking but I think I may have found something. Will share later.
Misreeya
Pro
Look at page 155 on the top left of the same book i posted from the
https://books.google.com/books?id=jF2jq5JrkS4C&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=nubian+and+war+elephants&source=bl&ots=SK70itxB3f&sig=9Gxj5YCJR0wZt3iRM0AOvWiIWOg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJnKaE0Y3QAhVJh1QKHf5mBwMQ6AEIVjAN#v=onepage&q=nubian and war elephants&f=false
link above.
it says what you want, you find it in the reliefs of the Musawarrat es sufra ruins. I have never been to those ruins but the author of the book mentioned that. Afterwards fact check he cited, and find the other sources from there.
Cheers.
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I'm a dumbass. THANKS! Wish reps were back because you're killing it in this thread!
Although the Kushytes(Nubians) lost, they still fought very bravely against the Romans and as a result signed a favorable treaty with them
Great thread btw, love Nubia.
Unrelated almost entirely but I'm thinking of making a thread about the decline of Songhai, unless its been done already
In 30 BC, the Romans replaced the Ptolemies as Kush's northern neighbors. Ancient Hellenic sources, and archeological evidence, reveal a military clash that took place between Kush and the Romans during the reigns of Roman Emperor Augusts and Kushyte Queen Amanishekhato. The clash began as a border conflict. Prior to the conflic, the Romans struck a deal with the Kushyte officials at Philae. The deal established Aswan, in Lower Nubia, as the official border between Kush and the Roman empire. Accordingly, the Romans were not permitted to expand their territorial ambitions south of Aswan. The Kushytes, in return, were expected to pay a tribute to Rome1.
Relief of Kushyte Queen Amanishekhito. Source: Wildung, Dietrich. Sudan: Ancient Kingdoms of the Nile.
© 2003 Greg Gulik Norwehian Dream Cruise 2003. Bust of Augustus from Sudan.
In the mid-to-late twenties of the first CE, revolts broke out in Thebes in protest of the Roman policy of excessive taxation.2 The revolts, which were probably supported by Kush, grew and spread throughout Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt. Tensions with Kush boiled when the Romans expressed interest in controlling Wadi Allaqi,3 which was rich in gold. The Wadi lies southeast of the Dodekaschoinos in Lower Nubia and was considered to be Kushyte territory.
In 24 BC, the Roman authorities in Egypt got occupied with conflicts in Arabia. The Kushytes took advantage of the situation and descided to make a move. Under the leadership of Queen Amanishekhato, a Kushyte military attacked the Roman garrison in Aswan. From there, the Queen led her military all the way to Thebes and defeated the Roman garrison there.
Strabo the geographer, who lived in first century CE, reported that the Kushyte Queen "enslaved the inhabitants, and threw down the statues of Caesar." (Strabo xvii.54). Recent archeological work uncovered a statue of Caesar at Meroe buried under the entrance floor of a temple at Meroe (currently in the British museum, London), which confirms the authenticity of Strabo's story. (The burying of the statue under the temple's floor, probably reflects the Kushyte belief in the power of representation. By stepping on the depiction of an enemy, the Kushytes believed that the power of the enemy would be magically weakened).5
Strabo wrote about the bloody conflicts that ensued between Kush and the Romans under the leadership of General Aelius Petronius.4 However, since Strabo was pro-Roman, and was a personal friend of Petronius, he patronized the Romans side of the conflict.
According to Strabo, following the Kushyte advance, Petronius (a Prefect of Egypt at the time) prepared a large military and marched south. The Roman forces clashed with the Kushyte armies near Thebes and forced them to retreat to Pselchis (Maharraqa) in Kushyte lands. Petronius, then, sent deputies to the Kushytes in an attempt to reach a peace agreement and make certain demands.
Quoting Strabo, the Kushytes "desired three days for consideration"6 in order to make a final decision. However, after the three days, Kush did not respond and Petronius advanced with his armies and took the Kushyte city of Premnis (modern Karanog) south of Maharraqa. From there, he advanced all the way south to Napata, the second Capital in Kush after Meroe. Petronius attacked and sacked Napata causing the son of the Kushyte Queen to flee. Strabo describes the defeat of the Kushytes at Napata, stating that "He (Petronius) made prisoners of the inhabitants".
Click here for larger view.Ancient path of the Kushyte and Roman armies in the battle of 24 A.D. according to the first-century Geographer and historian Strabo.
Click here for full gallery. From the collection of photographs by Osman Elkhair Architect, & Imad-eldin Ali. Hellenistic style temple Kiosk, Meroe.
This was not the end of the war. The Kushyte Queen attacked the occupying Roman garrison of Napata, in the words of Strabo, "with an army of many thousand men." The Kushytes, however, lost the war. The Queen then sent messengers to Petronius requesting to speak to the Roman Emperor. In response, Petronius sent the Kushyte messengers to Caesar, who was in Syria at the time. The negotiations in Syria were successful. It is recorded by Strabo that the Caesar "even remitted the tribute which he had imposed (upon the Kushytes earlier). "Although not so clearly defined, the Kush-Rome border seemed to have been somewhere in the Dodecaschoenus area.7
Note on Kush during the Paxa Romana:
Throughout the six centuries of the Roman rule over Egypt, Kush had extensively interacted with Rome as its northern neighbor. Despite the temporary conflicts, Kush and Roman Egypt maintained good relations in trade and politics. In return, Rome had a profound effect on the Kushyte civilization.
The Roman influence on Kush is manifested in the arts, architecture, and writing. Not only that but there is some archeological evidence for the existence of a Roman community in Nubia.8 Roman manufactures and products were found in considerable amounts.
The Dendur Temple, MMA, New York.
The Dendur Temple was given to the United States by Egypt in 1965 and is currently housed at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. The temple was built in 15 BC, in honor to the goddess Isis. Motifs and the name of the Roman Emperor Augustus are carved and inscribed on the temple's walls. Also inscribed are the names and motifs of the two sons of a Kushyte queen (Pihor and Pedesi), who participated in building portions of the temple. The Dendur Temple stands as a testament to the peaceful relations the Romans and the Kushytes have maintained for the next seven centuries.
- 1 R. B. Jackson, At Empire's Edge: Exploring Rome's Egyptian Frontier (Yale UP, 2002).
- 2 Jackson 127.
- 3 L. P. Kirwan, "Rome Beyond the Southern Egyptian Frontier." British Academy Proc. 63 (1977) 13-31.
- 4 Strabo, and H. C. Hamilton, W. Faulkner, The Geography of Strabo, trans. H. C. Hamilton, and W. Falconer (G. Bell & Sons, 1889).
- 5 The ancient Nubians and Egyptians shared a common cultural heritage including traditions such as those pertaining to beliefs in the magical powers of representations. For relevent readings see: E. Hornung, The Secret Lore of Egypt: Its Impact on the West, trans. D. Lorton (Cornell UP, 2001), and A. G. McDowell, Village Life in Ancient Egypt: Laundry Lists and Love Songs (Oxford UP, 2001).
- 6 For all quotes by Strabo on this article see: Strabo xvii. 54.
- 7 Kirwan, above at 13-31.
- 8 W. Y. Adams, and A. J. Arkell. Meroitic North and South: A Study in Cultural Contrasts (Akademie-Verlag, 1976).
Great thread btw, love Nubia.
Unrelated almost entirely but I'm thinking of making a thread about the decline of Songhai, unless its been done already
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