Let's actually have a hip-hop conversation for once... Does anybody else have "IWW > Illmatic"?

[Taadow]

NY State of Mind
Halftime
Memory Lane
Represent
One Time 4 Your Mind
It Ain't Hard To Tell
The Message
Street Dreams
I Gave You Power
Watch Dem Nikkas
Take It In Blood
The Set Up
Affirmative Action
Firm Biz
Hate Me Now
NYSOM 2
Nas is Like
Project Windows
2nd Childhood
Purple
The Flyest
Black Zombie
Poppa Was A Playa
My Way
Doo Rags
Revolutionary Warfare
Mastermind
War

These are not better than "Nas Is Coming".

 

[spliz]

Im talking about the music, your talking about fame and medallions. Thats nothing except something to feed his own ego, I could careless about that.

The music was dope. Period. Which is why threads like these get made. shyt. Most people heard IWW first and went back and listened to Illmatic. If it wasn't for IWW most people wouldn't have even been able to appreciate Illmatic for its greatness. nikkas like u just like artists all to urself on some "best kept secret" shyt. And don't get it twisted. I'm not sayin IWW is better. And I had Illmatic on cassette when it dropped.

 

[Clapsteel O'Neal]

I never got the Crossover argument for IWW. For the vast majority of listeners IWW is the starting point. IWW almost IS his debut for everyone except older New Yorkers, journalist and certain active rappers. I bet the majority of people in this thread and in real life witnessed IWW Before Illmatic .
IWWE doesn't sound that commercial it just sounded current and next level. And today sounds up to date even in the Trap beat era that I personally hope we will come out of.

Nicca do you realise what you just said?! your post gives STRENGTH to the point of IWW being an attempt to crossover. The whole point of trying to crossover is to appeal to a wide array of people, not just a focused section of hip hop...and it worked, as your post PERFECTLY describes. Was this a troll post, seriously?

 

[Art Barr]

while were at it, this might as well bethe last Jay track before he became his own brand of a sell out.



Fortunaltey for him it worked, he has fame, money, and a trash discography. While Nas just has a trash discography

Jay was a sellout since his inception.
He was never a cultural based artist.



Art Barr

 

[Mac Casper]

It Was Written represents an advancement sonically and an elevation in content and diversification in songwriting.

Illmatic represents the last record made in the style of the golden age hip-hop era. It represents THAT done to perfection and it's put together in a cohesive way

This is the most definitive answer in this thread

This is the only post in this thread that matters

 

[Art Barr]

The music was dope. Period. Which is why threads like these get made. shyt. Most people heard IWW first and went back and listened to Illmatic. If it wasn't for IWW most people wouldn't have even been able to appreciate Illmatic for its greatness. nikkas like u just like artists all to urself on some "best kept secret" shyt. And don't get it twisted. I'm not sayin IWW is better. And I had Illmatic on cassette when it dropped.

If nas stayed true to his own culture and actual direction from illmatic.
He would have been a large draw, as well.
As, the culture had marketing to be larger.
Yet, he sold it out and did not stay true.


If he stayed true puff's no way out only has sentimental value, moving forward.
It does not work to kill the protection mechanism in full.
Nas, as the herald of the culture would not have had to compromised the culture.
To allow the dialogue and action of protection mechanism to be compromised.
If you are a gateway nas fan from 96.
Like most of you are and not real bboys for real.
You have issue with this because you are fronting like you are apart of the culture in fallacy.

All behind who your favorite rapper is but you still not a part of the culture, Tho.


Art Barr

 

[FreshAIG]

IWW was most certainly an attempt to crossover

Lauryn Hill and R. Kelly featured on his two singles, arguably the two biggest stars in "hip hop/r&b" music at the time, trackmasters on the production tip. It was clear crossover attempt and it worked. Doesn't mean the album isn't fire

Like I said before, I wasn't a fan when it first dropped but over the years I love it for what it was. Especially Nas' rapping was on another level on IWW. P was in his prime and Nas left that nikka in the dust on "Live nikka Rap"

 

[Asicz]

Nicca do you realise what you just said?! your post gives STRENGTH to the point of IWW being an attempt to crossover. The whole point of trying to crossover is to appeal to a wide array of people, not just a focused section of hip hop...and it worked, as your post PERFECTLY describes. Was this a troll post, seriously?

Imo IWW doesn't necessarily have all the elements and Sound of a 'crossover' album, even though it did better sales wise.
The sales of IWW were helped hugely by marketing by way of music videos on MTV/BET directed by Hype Williams "The Godfather of Urban/Hip Hop Video"

To crossover in the mid to late 90s traditionally you had to dumb down lyrics, and/or make overt dance/party records.
Nas was able to go platinum for the first time and still not really have to "crossover" in the same way Mase, Puffy and Will Smith did in that era. Or the way that Lil Wayne did down the line had to with Carter 4 and make album worth mostly of radio cuts.

 

[Mac Casper]

If nas stayed true to his own culture and actual direction from illmatic.
He would have been a large draw, as well.
As, the culture had marketing to be larger.
Yet, he sold it out and did not stay true.


If he stayed true puff's no way out only has sentimental value, moving forward.
It does not work to kill the protection mechanism in full.
Nas, as the herald of the culture would not have had to compromised the culture.
To allow the dialogue and action of protection mechanism to be compromised.
If you are a gateway nas fan from 96.
Like most of you are and not real bboys for real.
You have issue with this because you are fronting like you are apart of the culture in fallacy.

All behind who your favorite rapper is but you still not a part of the culture, Tho.


Art Barr

Your contention is that Nas needed to keep sounding like 1994?

 

[Big Mel]

Like I said before. I respect cats like Art and Big Mel but they mad biased when it comes to this album cause of their love for Illmatic and expectations from Nas. Mel even tried to criticize shyt like Shootouts and Live nikka Rap cause they have a Mobb Deep feel. Called them leftover Mobb tracks while in actuality if those songs were on Mobb Deep's album he would call them classic. It was a problem to feature them on the album but not a problem for them to feature him on theirs. Criticized Street Dreams cause Pac used the sample first. While there's a million classic hip hop songs in the 90s that use the same sample. Just overall trivial criticisms fueled by hate.

I debunked you in that thread. Had you clamoring for obscure 90s songs no one ever heard with same samples as classics.

Again, for posterity, why do I want 2 blatant mobb deep songs on the follow up to Illmatic? Why? I already have Mobb. I'm good on that front. I want Nas. Pause. And one of those Mobb songs is average. Man Down status.

 

[Art Barr]

Your contention is that Nas needed to keep sounding like 1994?

Nas selling out damaged and moved the cultural importance of the type of production and why it was used.

Art Barr

 

[Nomadum]

OP, Big Dap!

I think IWW > Illmatic

and that's not to say Nas wasn't nice on Illmatic. on Illmatic, he was still kind of raw/fresh. on IWW he was maturing, IWW is forever Nas top album followed by Lost Tapes 1, Stillmatic

 

[Asicz]

If Nas stayed the same he would've ended up like KRS-One, that's not a diss necessarily .
Steve Stoute and the Track Masters should be commended also for IWW.

 

[RR_049]

Yes , me !

 

[spliz]

I debunked you in that thread. Had you clamoring for obscure 90s songs no one ever heard with same samples as classics.

Again, for posterity, why do I want 2 blatant mobb deep songs on the follow up to Illmatic? Why? I already have Mobb. I'm good on that front. I want Nas. Pause. And one of those Mobb songs is average. Man Down status.

Nah. U didn't debunk me fam. There's a million examples aside from the ones I mentioned. I just mentioned one of em that happened to be on Illmatic. I didn't even say who debunked who. I just mentioned the exchange in general. U want some more examples.
And this is back to back years.




And this one.




There's many more.