Last 18/19 NY Knicks season transmission: "F*** all the haters from you to SAS" See y'all in '20

[nyknick]

My sentiments exactly

@ that suggestion @nyknick

I was under impression that any Ron Baker, Shved, Vujacic, Bruno Shundov posts wouldn't need a smilie for it to be known

But anything to get this thread away from talking about potential draft picks. We just got through six months of Miles, Mikal, Michael Porter and Knox arguments and now I have to get a notification for this thread every time Zion dunks Might as well change thread title to 2019 Mock Draft.

 

[ProlificLurker]

I was under impression that any Ron Baker, Shved, Vujacic, Bruno Shundov posts wouldn't need a smilie for it to be known

But anything to get this thread away from talking about potential draft picks. We just got through six months of Miles, Mikal, Michael Porter and Knox arguments and now I have to get a notification for this thread every time Zion dunks Might as well change thread title to 2019 Mock Draft.

 

[Kitsch]

 

[qnsfinest]

Trading for Butler would be a quick fix move tho

Trading young, valuable assets for a player that's a former Thibs guy, soon to be on the wrong side of 30, coming off recent injury (which required surgery) where he missed 20 some odd games and looked like a shell of himself when he returned for the playoffs. And lastly, but most importantly, has a shytty deposition with how he treats/handles younger teammates, potential locker room cancer (depending on one's viewpoint he may already be considered a locker room cancer) and definite, for sure, piss poor "leader" (if you wanna call trashing your teammates in the media leadership); nah I aint breaking up the young core and/or dealing [a] future 1st rd pick(s) for that

Aside from that look at our track record when it comes to former Bulls coming to play for the Knicks over the past 20 years; Eddy Curry, J Crawford, Chris Duhon, Jerome Williams, Chandler, Rose, Noah.....not exactly a stellar track record, to say the least

I'd be a bit hesitant and apprehensive abt signing Jimmy as a FA outright as it is, a lot of red flags there that simply cannot be ignored. Ofc, Id come to accept it if we did sign him as a FA, especially if some of our other FA options are off the table and we sign him to a shorter term deal (2+1, 2 yrs with a 3rd yr option)

But trading for him? As opposed to just waiting till the off season to acquire him w/o sacrificing assets (young players and/or [a] future 1st rd pick(s))....Melo 2.0 all over again....no thanks. Hard pass to acquiring Jimmy via trade

I don’t think anything I said was quick fix though. To me trading frank and our 2019 pick at the all star break would be a quick fix just to make the 8th seed.

With the trade to jimmy, we still develop our young players, still keep our important 2019 draft pick.

If I can get an all star player who’s borderline all nba player for a young undeveloped, no promise, no guarantee to even be a serviceable starter let alone an all star player, I would do the trade in a heartbeat. It’s nothing against Frank, everyone is open to criticism, but I don’t see a bright future.

My biggest fear with Jimmy is the same as everyone, injuries and being a thibs guy. If he has a great injury free season, I think you make the move for any of the 3 frank, timmy, protected 2020 pick

 

[tremonthustler1]

Knox out here at Dyckman


Shout out to Hitman Holla

 

[ProlificLurker]

I don’t think anything I said was quick fix though. To me trading frank and our 2019 pick at the all star break would be a quick fix just to make the 8th seed.

With the trade to jimmy, we still develop our young players, still keep our important 2019 draft pick.

If I can get an all star player who’s borderline all nba player for a young undeveloped, no promise, no guarantee to even be a serviceable starter let alone an all star player, I would do the trade in a heartbeat. It’s nothing against Frank, everyone is open to criticism, but I don’t see a bright future.

My biggest fear with Jimmy is the same as everyone, injuries and being a thibs guy. If he has a great injury free season, I think you make the move for any of the 3 frank, timmy, protected 2020 pick

Rebuilding teams, such as we are, don't trade assets in the form of picks and/or young players for aging all-stars. Quite the contrary, if a rebuilding or even retooling team has an aging all-star on their roster they look to flip/unload him for pick(s) and/or young players (example, the Clippers trading Blake Griffin for Tobias Harris, a 1st rd pick, and some spare parts) We're just not in a position to trade for Jimmy, you trade for him when you're a desperate bubble team trying to sneak into the playoffs or you're a team that firmly believes that they're one final piece away from legitimately contending for a championship, neither scenario applies to us which is why Im so ardently against trading for Jimmy under any circumstances

Wholeheartedly disagree on your outlook on Frank, but you're right, no one is above criticism. To each his own vis-à-vis one's viewpoint on what Frank's ceiling will turn out to be

And it's not just injuries with Jimmy, which are worrisome in their own right. Its also his penchant of throwing teammates, particularly young teammates, under the bus when things hit a rough patch. That doesn't concern you at all? That's a major red flag for me, Frank or no Frank, that's a bad character flaw for player to have on a team as young as ours.

It'd be a risky signing but I can understand doing it. I just cant justify trading for him at all, especially when we can just sign him outright as a FA less than a year from now.

 

[Wargames]

While I like the Fizdale hire I do think he’s been kinda overhyped by the league and nba media in general because Lebron likes him and gave him his stamp of approval

Don’t get me wrong he has positives but he also got fired by Memphis and alienated the star player there yet people act like he’s the second coming of Pat Riley

Like I said I like the hire but people need to slow down

16-17 Memphis Grizzlies Offense - YouTube

Here's the offense of the Grizzlies from 2016-2017 that Fiz put in once he got there. It's really interesting to watch because it uses Gasol exactly the way you would hope they could use KP going forward. While Conley is arguably the most underrated PG in the league (Jrue Holliday and George Hill being the other 2). It is not an overly reliant PG system. Fiz's system there relied on passing the ball and trying to have at least 1 3pt shooter ready to shoot if the ball swung there way. It was also based on feeding Gasol either at the 3 pt line or the Elbow. As well as off the ball movement by the players to either get in the paint, get a open 3, or create better spacing for whoever has the ball to score.

The team Fiz had in Memphis was either old, mostly old, washed, and/or not offensively talented. Chandler Parsons, ZBO, Vince Carter, Tony Allen..... those were the best players on the roster beside Gasol and Conley. Fiz coached that to the playoffs and a competitive series against the Spurs. He basically had 2 really good players, guys past their primes, and scrubs. I legit think that given an opportunity to draft some high-level talent and put another star player next to KP, Timmy, Burke, and Knox he would have more talent than he's had before and could do great stuff. Hell the transition possibilities alone will be a big improvement and with more ball handlers I am interested to see if he allows multiple people to initiate the offense the way he had Conley doing it in Memphis.

Also this is a guy who coached Tony Allen. I legit think Frank has more offensive potential than Tony Allen and is already a far better passer. However, even if Frank never improves on the offensive side of the ball. Fiz has experience with a high-level defender and Tony Allen did get NBA All-Defensive honors playing for him. Watching summer league, Frank looked most effective offensively when he was shooting 3's or posting up the smaller guard like Kobe use to do. I'm not quite sure who that is comparable to as a PG but its improvement.

 

[qnsfinest]

Rebuilding teams, such as we are, don't trade assets in the form of picks and/or young players for aging all-stars. Quite the contrary, if a rebuilding or even retooling team has an aging all-star on their roster they look to flip/unload him for pick(s) and/or young players (example, the Clippers trading Blake Griffin for Tobias Harris, a 1st rd pick, and some spare parts) We're just not in a position to trade for Jimmy, you trade for him when you're a desperate bubble team trying to sneak into the playoffs or you're a team that firmly believes that they're one final piece away from legitimately contending for a championship, neither scenario applies to us which is why Im so ardently against trading for Jimmy under any circumstances

Wholeheartedly disagree on your outlook on Frank, but you're right, no one is above criticism. To each his own vis-à-vis one's viewpoint on what Frank's ceiling will turn out to be

And it's not just injuries with Jimmy, which are worrisome in their own right. Its also his penchant of throwing teammates, particularly young teammates, under the bus when things hit a rough patch. That doesn't concern you at all? That's a major red flag for me, Frank or no Frank, that's a bad character flaw for player to have on a team as young as ours.

It'd be a risky signing but I can understand doing it. I just cant justify trading for him at all, especially when we can just sign him outright as a FA less than a year from now.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. That blake trade definitely wasn’t motivated for basketball wins. It was to get a big time “superstar” and sell some seats in that empty arena, sell some jerseys. If they thought adding blake was gonna make them a championship contender or even a playoff team is laughable.

I completely get what you’re saying about Jimmy’s attitude. I mentioned it a few posts ago. Perhaps playing with a peer like kyrie will make chill the fukk out. I’m all for signing him as a free agent but isn’t he a free agent in 2yrs?

 

[ProlificLurker]

You’re comparing apples to oranges. That blake trade definitely wasn’t motivated for basketball wins. It was to get a big time “superstar” and sell some seats in that empty arena, sell some jerseys. If they thought adding blake was gonna make them a championship contender or even a playoff team is laughable.

I completely get what you’re saying about Jimmy’s attitude. I mentioned it a few posts ago. Perhaps playing with a peer like kyrie will make chill the fukk out. I’m all for signing him as a free agent but isn’t he a free agent in 2yrs?

It was motivated by future basketball wins from the Clippers perspective, and despite that they still competed for the playoffs last season after the trade was made right up until the second to last week of the season. They dealt their aging all star for Tobias Harris (a 25 y/o who only has 1 yr left on his deal), a 1st rd pick which ended up a late lotto pick, and trade filler that allows for greater cap flexibility. Not quite rebuilding but it is retooling, moving on from a player whose best days are likely behind him and getting assets that help in the short term (Tobias Harris & Avery Badley) and future (also rec'v 1st rd draft pick already mentioned and a 2nd rd pick, as well as expiring contracts in both Harris and Boban Marjanovic totaling close to 22 million in near future cap savings). The Clips weren't going anywhere with Blake so instead of paying him well over 30+ mill per year over the next 4 yrs they flipped him for assets. They didn't double down and trade their 2018 first, Lou Will (prior to extending his contract mid-season), + whatever else to get a B-level all-star player to help Blake & Co make the playoffs. They sent him off, still remained competitive, and set themselves up nicely for next off-season cap wise.

Clips were a bubble team that could've made a desperate move to get over the hump, instead they took a small step back and traded their franchise player to improve their team long term, essentially rebuilding on the fly. They were in a much better position to trade for someone like Jimmy than we are currently and they decided to go in a different direction. And that's the point. We're not anywhere near a bubble playoff team or a team that's one piece away, that's why it'd be impractical to trade for him IMO

Jimmy has a player option for 2019-2020. He already turned down a 4 yr, 110 million dollar contract extension from the T'Wolves this summer. Barring some catastrophic injury he'll be opting out. I'd rather wait for him to become a FA. Unless you believe he doesn't make it to free agency; which in case he doesn't, I wouldn't even put in a trade proposal/bid for him. I'd move on to other FA targets that fit what we're trying to build. Jimmy ain't the only fish in the sea

 

[ProlificLurker]

16-17 Memphis Grizzlies Offense - YouTube

Here's the offense of the Grizzlies from 2016-2017 that Fiz put in once he got there. It's really interesting to watch because it uses Gasol exactly the way you would hope they could use KP going forward. While Conley is arguably the most underrated PG in the league (Jrue Holliday and George Hill being the other 2). It is not an overly reliant PG system. Fiz's system there relied on passing the ball and trying to have at least 1 3pt shooter ready to shoot if the ball swung there way. It was also based on feeding Gasol either at the 3 pt line or the Elbow. As well as off the ball movement by the players to either get in the paint, get a open 3, or create better spacing for whoever has the ball to score.

The team Fiz had in Memphis was either old, mostly old, washed, and/or not offensively talented. Chandler Parsons, ZBO, Vince Carter, Tony Allen..... those were the best players on the roster beside Gasol and Conley. Fiz coached that to the playoffs and a competitive series against the Spurs. He basically had 2 really good players, guys past their primes, and scrubs. I legit think that given an opportunity to draft some high-level talent and put another star player next to KP, Timmy, Burke, and Knox he would have more talent than he's had before and could do great stuff. Hell the transition possibilities alone will be a big improvement and with more ball handlers I am interested to see if he allows multiple people to initiate the offense the way he had Conley doing it in Memphis.

Also this is a guy who coached Tony Allen. I legit think Frank has more offensive potential than Tony Allen and is already a far better passer. However, even if Frank never improves on the offensive side of the ball. Fiz has experience with a high-level defender and Tony Allen did get NBA All-Defensive honors playing for him. Watching summer league, Frank looked most effective offensively when he was shooting 3's or posting up the smaller guard like Kobe use to do. I'm not quite sure who that is comparable to as a PG but its improvement.

Yeah this isn't 2015 anymore lol

I thought Hill was underrated too when he was on the Pacers and the Jazz

He's just an overpaid vet now

Cant think of any current PG that posts up a lot....CP3 does it infrequently from time to time but it isn't a regular feature of his repertoire. PGs of yesteryear that posted up regularly, Andre Miller, Sam Cassell, Gary Payton, Chauncey Billups, etc. Would absolutely love it if Frank could work/train with either of Andre Miller and/or Billups

 

[BAMBA]

Has anyone ever heard Frank speak? Just realized I haven’t, which speaks to his quiet demeanor. Whether or not that is a good quality for a floor general is another question.

 

[RickyGQ]

 

[ProlificLurker]

Has anyone ever heard Frank speak? Just realized I haven’t, which speaks to his quiet demeanor. Whether or not that is a good quality for a floor general is another question.

Yes, in post game interviews. He's one of those "doesn't speak unless spoken to" types.

Rondo was/is a quiet type but he's also a moody dude, so perhaps his quietness can be attributed to him not really fukkin with the teammates/head coach of whatever team he's on that yr that much. Lonzo doesn't really speak much but he does use twitter to have roasting sessions with his teammates

I don't think its a bad thing unless one is quiet due to timidness or you're giving your teammates the cold shoulder off the floor ala Rondo. Conley is all business, doesnt really speak much. Jrue Holiday the same way. I was actually really surprised to see & hear Jrue talk so much shyt on the court during the Pelicans-Blazers series I was like yoooo who put the battery in this dude's back? He was charged up lol

But yeah I don't believe its something to worry abt to much in regards to Frank

 

[010101]

bubbling up that ready.rock on the quiet*

 

[DPresidential]