Kenny Smith | "LeBron is in my top 10 BUT he’s 10th...Kobe is not top 10" :scust:

[Hacksaw Jim Thuggin]

TNT has the W.O.A.T. panel of analysts with Barkley, Shaq, and Kenny Smith they really carried by personality.

But we supposed to take ex players word as gospel

why do yall care?
and make a thread EVERYTIME a player or ex player or rapper or whoever makes a list?

its their opinion and it carries as much weight as anybody else's....
which means it counts for shyt

***posts up and waits for beyonce's top 10 list thread***

 

[mitter]

Kobe has become very underrated

If he had retired after, say, 2012, he would be ranked higher

His last few years of limping around and missing shots left people with a distorted image

 

[Hey_zeus]

I dont watch TNT for their analysis.

 

[ISO]

Kenny Smith has ran the handchecking argument into the ground

at him averaging 26 points per game

 

[Swagnificent]

There was an emotional connection that overrated Kobe.

isn't this the best evidence for his greatness?

When you can connect people to you on an emotional level it shows that you have transcended the sports world.

This is why Duncan has never been in my top 10. His greatness is based on a list of accomplishments. Kobe's greatness is based in our collective consciousness. We can't let go of how he emotionally made us feel when he played basketball regardless of what his resume says.

That is why he is the GOAT.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

isn't this the best evidence for his greatness?

When you can connect people to you on an emotional level it shows that you have transcended the sports world.

This is why Duncan has never been in my top 10. His greatness is based on a list of accomplishments. Kobe's greatness is based in our collective consciousness. We can't let go of how he emotionally made us feel when he played basketball regardless of what his resume says.

That is why he is the GOAT.

Good point, as long as you don’t underrate Duncan for being non descript so to speak

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Good point, as long as you don’t underrate Duncan for being non descript so to speak

It’s a horrible point actually.

Let’s not value championships, production, longevity, feats, leadership etc

Let’s instead overvalue how he makes you feel. Sounds like lil sister bullshyt to me.

That’s why a lot of people on this board get to windmilling, crying & cursing when you say something that plays as criticism.

Grown ass man in love with another Grown Man? It’s ok to be a fan but these nikkax be sounding like they ready to turn tricks

 

[murksiderock]

Let me hear you objectively argue Lebron is the greatest player of all time

•higher postseason peaks than anybody in history, and roughly equivalent---not behind---with Jordan's postseason peaks (as measured series' by series', by WS48, WS, PER, GmSc, any statistical evaluation or the actual eye test---->there certainly hasn't been a more consistently higher playoff performer since Jordan's '98 retirement, and when you're lining up LeBron's peak performances with anybody in history from '98 on backwards, he and Mike stand out way ahead of the field consistently)....he's right there with Mike as far as peak is measured and you can argue his very best is higher, key word it can be *argued*...

•one of the most dominant regular season players in history, again objectively measured by statistical evaluation or the eye test compared to people we've seen. Amongst GOAT candidates the only players in this sector of conversation with LeBron would be Mike, Kareem, and Wilt. You could stretch and add Larry and Shaq but they didn't hold that longevity of otherworld dominance as long as the other guys...

•greatest floor raiser in NBA history, not a single player in NBA history has done more with less so consistently...

•arguably the greatest all around player ever, I mean how many guys are truly deserving to be mentioned in the convo with him? There have been plenty of good-to-great all around players, very, very few did these things as well as LeBron. Scoring might at best be his third greatest skill and he somehow made himself one of the greatest scorers ever...

•not a single superstar player I've ever seen with comparable offensive responsibilities and/or talent, was as destructive defensively at their peak. His ability at peak to man anybody on the floor, particularly in crunch time, is rare shyt; even rarer is his ability to completely dominate a game and alter the opponent's offensive gameplan----->how many SUPERSTAR, GOAT-level guys have had that ability? Its unique as hell...

•greatest prep-to-pro player in NBA history; longevity as an elite player at this point is only rivaled by Kareem and Kobe; had roughly a decade-long run as the best player in The League, rivaled by only Kareem and Mike; 4th-most decorated (awards/accolades) player in league history, after Mike, Bill, Kareem, and all of these guys were of different eras besides the 5-year overlap late in Cap's/early in Mike's career, so it can be said in context that 60 years of NBA history was dominated by four guys way above anyone else, as Kareem was drafted right after Bill's retirement; Mike only overlapped 5 of Kareem's 20 seasons, and LeBron was drafted right after Mike's last retirement...

I can keep going but I'll stop there. I've said this many times and I'll reiterate here: while LeBron is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen, I'm not positive he's the greatest ever---->but all these baseless claims that he doesn't have an argument for it are ridiculous. Any objective evaluation of him makes it clear he doesn't just have an argument, he has one of the strongest any player has...

 

[Greenhornet]

saying Kobe wasnt good or didnt dominate since the 90s is absolutely absurd

same with Duncan or any of these dudes who were always a threat to win for fukking decades
Jordan, Kobe and Lebron have all dismantled multiple teams that people turn around and say are phenomenal
so many teams that never got to sniff the finals because of those 3 dudes

There's a whole era of Kobe's peers that never got to enjoy winning and thats before he even changed his number and won more

Jordan not being drafted by Blazers and then beating them was the closest they've been to really killing it
Then Kobe carried on tradition and sleptwalked through brandon roy and the wallace/sabonis shyt ... onto the aldrige and lillard shyt

I talk shyt about the east and lebron sometimes, but he stopped a wild amount of teams from even being considered good

I dont see how you dont say any of those 3 arent solid top 10 picks, same with Bird...Magic etc
people always want to bring up Shaq and shyt like he carried himself...which he is his own man.
Shaq and Kobe on the same team was absolute bullshyt, I remember at the time I got so sick of that shyt I wanted to stop watching
It was a cheat code to have this psycho ass gunning dude and then Shaq elbowing cats and putting them in the cup whenever he wanted.
You could literally just let Kobe shoot (if shaq wasnt acting like a hoe) and Shaq would still grab all the boards and body people regardless
Kobe was literally giving out 60 piece buckets of herbs and spices till the day he walked off court. But people are like "nah he was just alright" Lets not even bring up the fact that he came and saved olympic basketball fukk the NBA, who is going to win for united states now? but I guess he's just top 25 or 15 ....whatever dudes are saying in here. Not even mentioning how he was vilified after the case and still defied those odds and said fukk it. Somehow I'm supposed to believe Wade should be ranked higher?

 

[Born2BKing]

In no particular order
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
LeBron
Wade
Drexler
Worthy
Kareem
Zeke
Dr. J
George Gervin
Karl Malone
Stockton
Gary Payton
Moses Malone
Big O
Jerry West
Pippen
Bernard King
Baylor
Tim Duncan
David Robinson
Paul pierce
Kg
Dirk

 

[Ben.]

I got both top 5, don't agree with Kenny at all

 

[fifth column]

•higher postseason peaks than anybody in history, and roughly equivalent---not behind---with Jordan's postseason peaks (as measured series' by series', by WS48, WS, PER, GmSc, any statistical evaluation or the actual eye test---->there certainly hasn't been a more consistently higher playoff performer since Jordan's '98 retirement, and when you're lining up LeBron's peak performances with anybody in history from '98 on backwards, he and Mike stand out way ahead of the field consistently)....he's right there with Mike as far as peak is measured and you can argue his very best is higher, key word it can be *argued*...

•one of the most dominant regular season players in history, again objectively measured by statistical evaluation or the eye test compared to people we've seen. Amongst GOAT candidates the only players in this sector of conversation with LeBron would be Mike, Kareem, and Wilt. You could stretch and add Larry and Shaq but they didn't hold that longevity of otherworld dominance as long as the other guys...

•greatest floor raiser in NBA history, not a single player in NBA history has done more with less so consistently...

•arguably the greatest all around player ever, I mean how many guys are truly deserving to be mentioned in the convo with him? There have been plenty of good-to-great all around players, very, very few did these things as well as LeBron. Scoring might at best be his third greatest skill and he somehow made himself one of the greatest scorers ever...

•not a single superstar player I've ever seen with comparable offensive responsibilities and/or talent, was as destructive defensively at their peak. His ability at peak to man anybody on the floor, particularly in crunch time, is rare shyt; even rarer is his ability to completely dominate a game and alter the opponent's offensive gameplan----->how many SUPERSTAR, GOAT-level guys have had that ability? Its unique as hell...

•greatest prep-to-pro player in NBA history; longevity as an elite player at this point is only rivaled by Kareem and Kobe; had roughly a decade-long run as the best player in The League, rivaled by only Kareem and Mike; 4th-most decorated (awards/accolades) player in league history, after Mike, Bill, Kareem, and all of these guys were of different eras besides the 5-year overlap late in Cap's/early in Mike's career, so it can be said in context that 60 years of NBA history was dominated by four guys way above anyone else, as Kareem was drafted right after Bill's retirement; Mike only overlapped 5 of Kareem's 20 seasons, and LeBron was drafted right after Mike's last retirement...

I can keep going but I'll stop there. I've said this many times and I'll reiterate here: while LeBron is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen, I'm not positive he's the greatest ever---->but all these baseless claims that he doesn't have an argument for it are ridiculous. Any objective evaluation of him makes it clear he doesn't just have an argument, he has one of the strongest any player has...

I respect your opinion. I think Lebron is top 5 all time. Now that we got the cute stuff out of the way let’s talk about dominance. No doubt Bron performed but hasn’t really dominated like MJ. He doesn’t really drive fear into opponents especially in the finals. In fact, his finals opponents always get their revenge against him which is anti-goat. Bron is just not mentally built like that to be the overall goat. I mean 51 points game 1 against GSW in the finals is great but he mentally broke down and punch a wall fukking up his hand. The goat in any sport has a certain Psycho edge look at Tom Brady, MJ where they winning if they get to the championship game at all cost. Bron missing this and would make him a weak goat if there was no MJ. Lastly, he is too much of an MJ stan to really past him

 

[murksiderock]

The way I see it Kobe has to be considered top 10 by default. When we're talking about G.O.A.T., there's an emphasis on greatest and Kobe was great by definition. MJ, LeBron, and Kobe are the most culturally influential players basketball has produced they have dominated the sport discourse over the last 40 years through highs and lows.

20 years. 18x All-Star, MVP, 5x Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defense, 2x Scoring Champion, 81 points and various other legendary scoring outburts with this resume how can he not be top 10?

He has more longevity and accolades than both Magic and Bird. He's more skilled than both, he's more athletic than both, he's more culturally influential than both, as many titles as Magic, as many Finals MVP's as Bird. How can we not put him top 10? I got him 5th on my list with a criteria of skill, athleticism, dominance, prime/peak, accolades and records, cultural impact, longevity.

I think his case as Top 10 is more than agreeable, though I wouldn't think it's crazy if he's at 11 or 12--->it is crazy if he's after 12 at this point...

His case as Top 5 is not even close to airtight; when I'm using "too many guys" in my coming statement, "too many" just means more than 5. I don't think I have to spell it out for you specifically, as I already said I think he's Top 10 so how many guys can I be talking about, but for other guys reading this....

Too many guys had higher peaks; too many guys were Day One phenoms; too many guys won more as the best player on a team; too many guys were more dominant in both the postseason and The Finals; too many guys are more decorated (accolades and awards); too many guys just had a higher gear of domination; etc...

Again these exercises you split hairs on. Kobe was all of those things but he wasn't amongst the most dominant players ever even at his very best, he certainly doesn't have the most compelling postseason resume, etc. I've said for years people misconstrue his popularity and global appeal....he has a place and it's a unique one and he's clearly amongst the greatest players ever. Top 5 is a hard sell when you evaluate him the same way you evaluate everybody else...

Kobe has become very underrated

I disagree with this completely. He's become more overrated, first there was the initial bump he got in retirement, which brought about a mass rewriting of certain aspects of his career, then he got the bump after death. No one disputes that he's a pantheon great, absolutely no one. No one also talks about his last 3 years somehow killing his reputation, that argument gets repeated on here and comes straight outta Stanville because not once has there been a shred of evidence that people view his last few years as a negative for him...

He's rated properly anywhere in that 7-12 window. Second greatest two guard. You can argue that if he isn't in a Top 10 he's being slightly underrated, and certainly if he's outside 12-15 hes being criminally underrated, but this works both ways...

He's being slightly overrated if he's brushing the Top 5 and he's being massively, massively overrated if he's any higher than that...if we're evaluating him (and everyone else) on shyt that actually matters instead of the shyt that doesn't that people around here love talking about...

 

[Black_Panther_JS]

•greatest floor raiser in NBA history, not a single player in NBA history has done more with less so consistently...

Bron has played with top tier talent for at least half of his career

 

[Houston911]

I think his case as Top 10 is more than agreeable, though I wouldn't think it's crazy if he's at 11 or 12--->it is crazy if he's after 12 at this point...

His case as Top 5 is not even close to airtight; when I'm using "too many guys" in my coming statement, "too many" just means more than 5. I don't think I have to spell it out for you specifically, as I already said I think he's Top 10 so how many guys can I be talking about, but for other guys reading this....

Too many guys had higher peaks; too many guys were Day One phenoms; too many guys won more as the best player on a team; too many guys were more dominant in both the postseason and The Finals; too many guys are more decorated (accolades and awards); too many guys just had a higher gear of domination; etc...

Again these exercises you split hairs on. Kobe was all of those things but he wasn't amongst the most dominant players ever even at his very best, he certainly doesn't have the most compelling postseason resume, etc. I've said for years people misconstrue his popularity and global appeal....he has a place and it's a unique one and he's clearly amongst the greatest players ever. Top 5 is a hard sell when you evaluate him the same way you evaluate everybody else...



I disagree with this completely. He's become more overrated, first there was the initial bump he got in retirement, which brought about a mass rewriting of certain aspects of his career, then he got the bump after death. No one disputes that he's a pantheon great, absolutely no one. No one also talks about his last 3 years somehow killing his reputation, that argument gets repeated on here and comes straight outta Stanville because not once has there been a shred of evidence that people view his last few years as a negative for him...

He's rated properly anywhere in that 7-12 window. Second greatest two guard. You can argue that if he isn't in a Top 10 he's being slightly underrated, and certainly if he's outside 12-15 hes being criminally underrated, but this works both ways...

He's being slightly overrated if he's brushing the Top 5 and he's being massively, massively overrated if he's any higher than that...if we're evaluating him (and everyone else) on shyt that actually matters instead of the shyt that doesn't that people around here love talking about...

Too many guys had higher peaks?

HELL NAH

Kobe at his absolutely best can be mentioned with anyone other than mike