Jokic is really about to be a 3peat MVP

[Bar Razor]

I don’t care about team record when it comes to mvp.

If you’re playing at a high level, that speaks for you.

Team record is exactly that. The team.

The people who say “if he’s so good why isn’t the team better?” are people who just don’t get it.

You said that Doncic has a "strong argument" for winning MVP. No player on a 10th place team is going to win MVP so your "strong argument" is really just "I think he should be in the MVP race". It's not based on any form of reality in terms of how the MVP is awarded. This isn't about your personal feelings about how MVPs are given, it's about what is. As such, there is no "strong argument" for him winning the award. Additionally, nice strawman suggesting that if a person doesn't think Doncic is in the MVP race that they're also stating "if he's so good why isn't the team better" which is nonsense.

 

[No1]

I don’t care about team record when it comes to mvp.

If you’re playing at a high level, that speaks for you.

Team record is exactly that. The team.

The people who say “if he’s so good why isn’t the team better?” are people who just don’t get it.

I agree but that hasn’t how the award has been awarded for the better part of the past 30 years ever since the media got upset with Kareem winning it while missing the playoffs. NBA could make it simple and just give it to the most dominant player like every other sport. Record only comes into play if you have 2 comparable players.

 

[cartierhoe]

3 of his titles were also won in the same years as his MVPs (91, 96, 98)

I think if you can dominate the regular season, it translates into wanting to win more in the post-season. You dont just clock out after the 82nd game

That's just how the situations ended up turning out tho, Steph was a back to back MVP winner in 15 and 16, and we know how 16 turned out for him in the Finals.

 

[Remote]

You said that Doncic has a "strong argument" for winning MVP. No player on a 10th place team is going to win MVP so your "strong argument" is really just "I think he should be in the MVP race". It's not based on any form of reality in terms of how the MVP is awarded. This isn't about your personal feelings about how MVPs are given, it's about what is. As such, there is no "strong argument" for him winning the award. Additionally, nice strawman suggesting that if a person doesn't think Doncic is in the MVP race that they're also stating "if he's so good why isn't the team better" which is nonsense.

Doncic is playing at a high level in metrics that correlate to winning basketball even if his teammates aren’t doing the same.

He has a very strong argument for MVP.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

It was literally said all throughout the 2000s that you can’t be MVP if you don’t win 50 plus games. You really do need to tone down the condescending way you talk to people. It’s a message board, and you’re not that important. Unless someone is being a clown then you need to relax. And as always, you leave out key details as if MVP in the 70s was MVP in the 2000s when most people here were coming of age. You literally had people saying it’s a “team award” - including people who won it (i.e. Kobe and LeBron). Kareem won MVP while missing the playoffs when players voted. There are three players in history to have won the MVP award without winning at least 50 games since the media took over the vote in 79-80. Moses Malone did it twice - last in 1982 and then we have had Jokic and WestBrook in recent years.

In other words, an entire generation never saw the media anoint someone as MVP who had not won at least 50 games and for you to pretend that there’s no basis for @Jplaya2023 perspective is just your usual pompous and seemingly googled way of thinking about basketball history. We all lived through that in real time, and the NBA players themselves literally created their own award and gave it to Harden to express their displeasure with how the media had awarded MVP, and every other award.

Joker deserved his awards BTW.

"It was literally said"....by WHO? Was it a rule the voters made, or just random shyt people said on message boards? Because you can see voters clearly didn't believe it in the 1980s, when Moses Malone won two MVPs with less than 50 wins and when MJ finished 2nd twice with less than 50 wins. LOTS of voters still picked MJ to win despite his 40 and 47 win seasons, so there clearly wasn't a rule, it just wasn't enough people to pull him over the top. In 2006 Kobe's 45 wins were still good enough for 22 first-place vote (more than LeBron and his 50 wins), so there clearly wasn't a rule yet then either.

Then in 2017 you had Westbrook WIN the award with a worst record than Jokic had, and we're just gonna pretend that doesn't exist? How can you claim the precedent hadn't been set when it had just happened 4 years earlier?


You know what the other dumbest shyt is? In 2021 the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place MVP guys ALL had fewer than 50 wins. Embiid's team had 49 wins, Steph's team had just 39 wins, and Giannis's team had 46 wins. So how the hell can you claim Jokic was an outlier for having less than 50 when ALL of the players in the top-4 had less than 50? And in 2022 the Sixers and Bucks had 51 wins each, barely more than Jokic, and as others have pointed out Jokic actually played in more wins than either Giannis or Embiid did. So you're literally claiming they deserve MVP cause their teams won more games with them on the bench than Jokic's squad won with him on the bench. Which is the most ass-backwards shyt I can think of.


jplaya's logic requires pretending that Moses Malone and Russ Westbrook's MVPs don't exist.
jplaya's logic requires pretending that MJ and Kobe didn't get dozens of MVP votes.
jplaya's logic requires believing in an imaginary rule that was not written anywhere or affirmed by the voters.
jplaya's logic requires not noticing they only played 72 games in 2021 and no one else in the top-4 had 50 wins either.
jplaya's logic requires not noticing that Jokic personally played in more wins than anyone else in the top-3 in 2022.


I'm tired of nonsense getting passed off as reality when every fact we actually have shows the opposite.

 

[Shadow King]

He's a cheat code. It's a shame they saddled him with that awful MPJ contract and Murray looks like a shell of himself.

He's gonna be wasting his prime seasons with almost no shot to win it all because of their terrible salary situation. MPJ and Murray are untradable.

 

[Bar Razor]

Doncic is playing at a high level in metrics that correlate to winning basketball even if his teammates aren’t doing the same.

He has a very strong argument for MVP.

If the season ended today there is no way in hell he wins so the strong argument is just your personal feelings with absolutely no basis in reality.

 

[Dorian Breh]

Whats the difference betw Harden putting up crazy regular season stats and losing in the playoffs with subpar teammates and Jokic doing it

 

[Remote]

If the season ended today there is no way in hell he wins so the strong argument is just your personal feelings with absolutely no basis in reality.

It’s not personal feelings.
It’s his actual performance.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

3 of his titles were also won in the same years as his MVPs (91, 96, 98)

I think if you can dominate the regular season, it translates into wanting to win more in the post-season and I think Jokic should at least be sniffing a finals appearance if hes this dominant on the floor in general

MJ finished 2nd in the MVP vote in 1987 even though his team had a losing record and got swept in the 1st round.
MJ won the MVP in 1988 even though his team barely survived the 1st round and got tossed 4-1 in the 2nd round.

Jokic lost to the Finals teams in 2021 and 2022, both of whom had MVP candidates themselves and great supporting casts too. There's no magic dust that causes one MVP candidate with a shytty supporting cast to beat another MVP candidate with a great supporting cast. It's still a team game.

 

[SadimirPutin]

It is a reg season award but we should start having more expectations of them in the playoffs.

Win or lose the greats get BUSY in the postseason.

An MVP should be touching conference Semis minimum in the year he wins it barring some strange outlier circumstance

It was win or bust for Raymone year in year out

 

[Shadow King]

Whats the difference betw Harden putting up crazy regular season stats and losing in the playoffs with subpar teammates and Jokic doing it

Was Harden, Harden when he lost or was he Bob Sura with a Quick First Step badge?

 

[Walt]

Cats be talking about the NBA like it's a mix between a soap opera a Black Israelite meeting. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Cats be talking about the NBA like it's a mix between a soap opera a Black Israelite meeting. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Breh, I've been saying this for years, a lot of these posters don't give a shyt about the play on the court they're just here for the soap opera aspects and narratives.

I'd bet half of them watch professional wrestling too.

 

[Ozymandeas]

That's just how the situations ended up turning out tho, Steph was a back to back MVP winner in 15 and 16, and we know how 16 turned out for him in the Finals.

He got there though. Both years. Jokic hasn’t.