It's time we stop recognizing Chris Paul as a great defensive player

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Bilz is good at shytting on the Lakers. Beyond that, I dont know why you'd expect me to care what any poster thinks when my eyes and the facts tell me all I need to know.
I don't expect you to care what other posters think, but you wouldn't go around saying this "pigheaded, agenda-driven and autistic" nonsense when other posters whose opinions you 'respect' believe the same thing. It's clearly a case of you i) going against anything I say ii) not admitting that your favorites aren't as good as you think they are.

You couldn't be more transparent.
 

GoddamnyamanProf

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I don't expect you to care what other posters think, but you wouldn't go around saying this "pigheaded, agenda-driven and autistic" nonsense when other posters whose opinions you 'respect' believe the same thing. It's clearly a case of you i) going against anything I say ii) not admitting that your favorites aren't as good as you think they are.

You couldn't be more transparent.
Again Im not obligated to agree with anyone on anything, nor would their opinion mean a thing to me on subjects I know well.

Im not concerned enough about you to keep track of all the dumb shyt you say just to disagree :rudy: That said, we all know your agendas well and you rarely stray from them, building your arguments and evidence around them and deciding when facts should matter when convenient.
 

LV Koopa

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So Chris Paul is currently exceeding his already historic defensive impact in every metric available on every website. He's rated as having Center impact (2nd to DJ, 3rd overall in the league). Even on stats that don't use remotely similar formulas (such as RPM and Wins Produced) he's at the top of the league.

By the eye test he's destroying almost everyone in PnR coverage, and they've even got him out there guarding small forwards more.

So again, where's your proof that CP3 isn't a great defensive player?
 
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So Chris Paul is currently exceeding his already historic defensive impact in every metric available on every website. He's rated as having Center impact (2nd to DJ, 3rd overall in the league). Even on stats that don't use remotely similar formulas (such as RPM and Wins Produced) he's at the top of the league.
You don't use metrics as foundation for a player's defensive impact, especially ones who aren't defensive anchors (multicollinearity comes in and dresses players up or down). Surely you can see some sort of an issue when these #s if you're in here claiming that he has "Center impact" on the that end.
By the eye test he's destroying almost everyone in PnR coverage, and they've even got him out there guarding small forwards more.
:merchant:

If they've got him guarding small forwards, it's usually because Mbah a Moute is guarding the best offensive guard threat. I question if you've actually been watching the Clippers play at all this season.
So again, where's your proof that CP3 isn't a great defensive player?
The proof is all through this thread, perhaps if you actually looked at that OP you would see why. I mean is this really a mark of this great defender you keep on claiming he is -

Despite the Clippers being ranked 13th in points against per shot (0.96 PPP - 50.8%) in 2014/2015, they were near last at contesting shots at a 40.89% rate (Kings and Lakers were the only teams who were worse), which is quite remarkable they actually got away with contesting at such a poor rate, yet still had a good defense since both the Lakers and Kings were ranked in the bottom five for points against per shot. Paul being the main culprit, as he was the WORST among all Clippers' starters at contesting shots - where he ranked 79th in the league among qualifying point guards at a 26.1% rate. He also ranked 77th among PGs in Keep-in-Front% at 29.7 - "Keep-In-Front% tracks a defender’s ability to keep his man in front of him following on-ball screens, during help attempts, on one-on-one drive attempts, and on closeout attempts."

However, a closer look at Paul’s numbers show that it’s not just on-ball screens where the point guard is having trouble keeping his man between him and the basket. His Keep-in-Front Drive% was just 35.9 percent on the season. In comparison, the Boston Celtics’ stalwart young defensive unit of Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley had Keep-in-Front%’s of 53.8 and 50.8, respectively.

The Clippers defensive scheme / DeAndre covered up teams capitalizing on his lack of defense and miscues -

The Clippers had the second-highest Hedge% in the entire league at 22.19 percent. This was an effective screen-defense strategy as the Clippers had the lowest Points Allowed per Screen in the NBA last season at .073. Having the most agile post defender in the game in Jordan obviously is a big reason the Clippers can hedge with such frequency.

+

 
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NBA coaches are the ones selecting All-D players.
I guess Coli posters know more than them:francis:
i) NBA coaches haven't voted since the 2012-2013 season - it's a panel of writers/broadcasters now
ii) NBA coaches can't be wrong? I mean are you prepared to say that every player named on every team since the late-60s was most deserving?
iii) NBA coaches call either fall victim to popular narrative, bias and/or have limited knowledge of all defensive players worthy of being in the conversation

And then you have instances where voters just completely forget about players when it comes to voting (Draymond for DPOY) and apologize after the fact.
 

LV Koopa

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You don't use metrics as foundation for a player's defensive impact, especially ones who aren't defensive anchors (multicollinearity comes in and dresses players up or down). Surely you can see some sort of an issue when these #s if you're in here claiming that he has "Center impact" on the that end.

:merchant:

If they've got him guarding small forwards, it's usually because Mbah a Moute is guarding the best offensive guard threat. I question if you've actually been watching the Clippers play at all this season.

The proof is all through this thread, perhaps if you actually looked at that OP you would see why. I mean is this really a mark of this great defender you keep on claiming he is -

Despite the Clippers being ranked 13th in points against per shot (0.96 PPP - 50.8%) in 2014/2015, they were near last at contesting shots at a 40.89% rate (Kings and Lakers were the only teams who were worse), which is quite remarkable they actually got away with contesting at such a poor rate, yet still had a good defense since both the Lakers and Kings were ranked in the bottom five for points against per shot. Paul being the main culprit, as he was the WORST among all Clippers' starters at contesting shots - where he ranked 79th in the league among qualifying point guards at a 26.1% rate. He also ranked 77th among PGs in Keep-in-Front% at 29.7 - "Keep-In-Front% tracks a defender’s ability to keep his man in front of him following on-ball screens, during help attempts, on one-on-one drive attempts, and on closeout attempts."

However, a closer look at Paul’s numbers show that it’s not just on-ball screens where the point guard is having trouble keeping his man between him and the basket. His Keep-in-Front Drive% was just 35.9 percent on the season. In comparison, the Boston Celtics’ stalwart young defensive unit of Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley had Keep-in-Front%’s of 53.8 and 50.8, respectively.

The Clippers defensive scheme / DeAndre covered up teams capitalizing on his lack of defense and miscues -

The Clippers had the second-highest Hedge% in the entire league at 22.19 percent. This was an effective screen-defense strategy as the Clippers had the lowest Points Allowed per Screen in the NBA last season at .073. Having the most agile post defender in the game in Jordan obviously is a big reason the Clippers can hedge with such frequency.

+



So metrics aren't a good foundation but you've used them to try and prove Chris Paul isn't an elite defender? :jbhmm:

Can you actually mathematically explain why these aren't good? Since I have a background in stats and sports betting I'm sure you'll set me straight.

If they've got him guarding small forwards, it's usually because Mbah a Moute is guarding the best offensive guard threat. I question if you've actually been watching the Clippers play at all this season.

But Chris Paul actually rates higher than Mbah, and even before he was on the team CP3s ratings were high :russ:

Despite the Clippers being ranked 13th in points against per shot (0.96 PPP - 50.8%) in 2014/2015, they were near last at contesting shots at a 40.89% rate (Kings and Lakers were the only teams who were worse), which is quite remarkable they actually got away with contesting at such a poor rate, yet still had a good defense since both the Lakers and Kings were ranked in the bottom five for points against per shot. Paul being the main culprit, as he was the WORST among all Clippers' starters at contesting shots - where he ranked 79th in the league among qualifying point guards at a 26.1% rate. He also ranked 77th among PGs in Keep-in-Front% at 29.7 - "Keep-In-Front% tracks a defender’s ability to keep his man in front of him following on-ball screens, during help attempts, on one-on-one drive attempts, and on closeout attempts."


But this doesn't mean he's a bad defender, it means he can't contest shots well which is obvious when he's 6'0. What about all his PnR defense, elite steals without gambling and breaking the defense, picking up transition, bumping cutters - all stuff you don't need stats to see? Funny how metrics are useful to you now :mjlol:

The Clippers defensive scheme / DeAndre covered up teams capitalizing on his lack of defense and miscues


:stopitslime:


You going to show the videos where CP3 murdered Lillard this year too?
 

LV Koopa

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NBA coaches are the ones selecting All-D players.
I guess Coli posters know more than them:francis:

No one takes those awards seriously. It's a popularity contest. While me and Gil disagree on CP3s defense, ain't nobody gonna use that shyt to prop up a player's defense. Kobe was getting them after 06 over Iggy which was shameful.
 

GilSho

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I'm convinced he's a massive troll. Anyone claiming CP3 isn't playing elite defense this season doesn't understand the game.
 
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