IT Certifications and Careers (Official Discussion Thread)

[acri1]

Majoring in english and art history can help you get a job too, I mean, after all, it is a degree right (since this seems to be your argument)? And degrees are so valuable right?

If your goal is to get an entry-level IT position, it would be detrimental to spend two-years or four-years "getting a degree."

You're advising people to take out 50K in debt and forego 120K in earnings in order get a degree and end up in the exact same place they would have been without it (an entry-level position). This is terrible advice.

And if you truly believe a cat with no experience and a degree is beating out someone with experience and no degree, you're out of your mind.

As far as networking, you do that on the job. You become a great performer and network with folks who are actually in a position to improve your career, not a bunch of nobodies studying "IT" at a no-name college.

Again, I understand you're attempting to justify your bad decisions, but I'm trying to advise younger cats against making moves that will set them, and their careers back years.

I've never...ever met anyone with an "IT" degree who is worth anything. I've met plenty of people with no degrees and I've met some folks with unrelated degrees (english, history, etc.) who are top performers.

The guys who went to shytty no-name or online college and majored in "IT Studies" are always crap performers who hope their piece of paper will shield them from their obvious lack of knowledge, work ethic, and ability.

If you have questions, PM me.

tl;dr,

Youngins, do not go into debt without a plan or a reason.

The Real Guide to Our College Education System

I think you just set a world record for Strawman arguments in one paragraph

All that stuff about me advocating taking out a bunch of debt (which I never advocated...if you take out 50k in debt for a Bachelors, much less an AS, you're an idiot) or how a degree would beat experience (which I never said) or networking on the job (which I never said you can't do) or going to a no-name college (which I never said to do) or people with no degrees/unrelated degrees (I never said people with no degree can't do well) has literally nothing to do with my point.

OF COURSE experience beats a degree, but the point is that it's harder to get an entry level job (and thus experience) in the first place without a degree. You're out here talking about somebody with no experience getting something like a CCNA in a month and finding a good job which is unrealistic. You're talking like anybody with no degree/experience is just gonna easily find an entry-level IT job where they can network with people and get relevant experience.


It's a fact that a lot of HR departments will toss out resumes with no degree, and it's a fact that people that it's easier to move up to a management position if you have a degree. Can you do it without one? Sure. But that doesn't remotely mean a degree is a waste of time. The fact that you might not have one doesn't make it worthless. At my job we have a pretty good mix of people with and without degrees (some IT-related and some not) and they certainly hire people without degrees and they do well. But when there's an opening for a senior-level or management position, who do you think usually gets the job?

In the long-term a degree is usually worthwhile if you can get one without taking out much debt.

 

[Kid McNamara]

I think you just set a world record for Strawman arguments in one paragraph

All that stuff about me advocating taking out a bunch of debt (which I never advocated...if you take out 50k in debt for a Bachelors, much less an AS, you're an idiot) or how a degree would beat experience (which I never said) or networking on the job (which I never said you can't do) or going to a no-name college (which I never said to do) or people with no degrees/unrelated degrees (I never said people with no degree can't do well) has literally nothing to do with my point.

OF COURSE experience beats a degree, but the point is that it's harder to get an entry level job (and thus experience) in the first place without a degree. You're out here talking about somebody with no experience getting something like a CCNA in a month and finding a good job which is unrealistic. You're talking like anybody with no degree/experience is just gonna easily find an entry-level IT job where they can network with people and get relevant experience.


It's a fact that a lot of HR departments will toss out resumes with no degree, and it's a fact that people that it's easier to move up to a management position if you have a degree. Can you do it without one? Sure. But that doesn't remotely mean a degree is a waste of time. The fact that you might not have one doesn't make it worthless. At my job we have a pretty good mix of people with and without degrees (some IT-related and some not) and they certainly hire people without degrees and they do well. But when there's an opening for a senior-level or management position, who do you think usually gets the job?

In the long-term a degree is usually worthwhile if you can get one without taking out much debt.

Not unrealistic at all, I did just that. Quite a few people on the board have done it. Quite a few people in real life have done it. Guys like, Edward Snowden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, have done it. Again, some of my most competent and knowledgeable co-workers do not have degrees or have degrees in unrelated fields (off top, English, History, Music, Economics). I can think of maybe one person with a CIS degree who is competent and he is outranked twice over by guys who have no degree.

You're attempting to justify your decision instead of actually looking at the argument. Truth is, you probably based your decision on what someone else told you (society, your parents, etc.). I'm tired of cats spreading this false information around.

You do not need a degree to get top clearances, you do not need a degree to work for top companies, you do not need a degree to make over six figures in the "IT" field.

Hit up Blackhat and especially DefCon next year then get online telling me about how you need a degree to work in this field. Literally the top hackers in the world, a lot of 'em have little-to-no college education (or are current college students, meaning their skills were self-taught).

You're just a lame ass who needed a degree because you had no actual skill set. Don't put that on everyone else though.

Now if you're looking to become a top developer for google, then yes, you need a degree (perhaps not if you're good enough). If you're looking to become the next Sergey Aleynikov or Christopher Fry, grab that degree (and work 80 hour weeks for two/three years). But for entry-level to even high-level IT work, you absolutely do not need a degree and it's in your best interest to save your money until you know that having a degree will pay off.

"But when there's an opening for a senior-level or management position, who do you think usually gets the job?"

Now you're changing the goal post. But even still, as I said earlier, the idiot who majored in "IT" at no-name university doesn't get the management job.

As far as "senior-level" positions...

CISSP - No degree required
CCIE - No degree required
OSCE - No degree required
Networking - No degree required

Get in, always be working, and always be networking.

 

[acri1]

Not unrealistic at all, I did just that. Quite a few people on the board have done it. Quite a few people in real life have done it. Guys like, Edward Snowden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, have done it. Again, some of my most competent and knowledgeable co-workers do not have degrees or have degrees in unrelated fields (off top, English, History, Music, Economics). I can think of maybe one person with a CIS degree who is competent and he is outranked twice over by guys who have no degree.

You're attempting to justify your decision instead of actually looking at the argument. Truth is, you probably based your decision on what someone else told you (society, your parents, etc.). I'm tired of cats spreading this false information around.

You do not need a degree to get top clearances, you do not need a degree to work for top companies, you do not need a degree to make over six figures in the "IT" field.

Hit up Blackhat and especially DefCon next year then get online telling me about how you need a degree to work in this field. Literally the top hackers in the world, a lot of 'em have little-to-no college education (or are current college students, meaning their skills were self-taught).

You're just a lame ass who needed a degree because you had no actual skill set. Don't put that on everyone else though.

Now if you're looking to become a top developer for google, then yes, you need a degree (perhaps not if you're good enough). If you're looking to become the next Sergey Aleynikov or Christopher Fry, grab that degree (and work 80 hour weeks for two/three years). But for entry-level to even high-level IT work, you absolutely do not need a degree and it's in your best interest to save your money until you know that having a degree will pay off.

"But when there's an opening for a senior-level or management position, who do you think usually gets the job?"

Now you're changing the goal post. But even still, as I said earlier, the idiot who majored in "IT" at no-name university doesn't get the management job.

As far as "senior-level" positions...

CISSP - No degree required
CCIE - No degree required
OSCE - No degree required
Networking - No degree required

Get in, always be working, and always be networking.

Please tell me where I said you need a degree.

You're literally nonstop arguing against a point I didn't make because it's one of your talking points. I never ONCE said you need a degree for IT, all I said was that it's easier to get an entry level job and not get your resume ignored by HR if you have one. In fact I said a degree ISN'T required, just that people with degrees tend to get preference.


And with the personal attacks, my degree isn't even in IT, I majored in something else and just did a specialization in it.

 

[Kid McNamara]

Please tell me where I said you need a degree.

You're literally nonstop arguing against a point I didn't make because it's one of your talking points. I never ONCE said you need a degree for IT, all I said was that it's easier to get an entry level job and not get your resume ignored by HR if you have one. In fact I said a degree ISN'T required, just that people with degrees tend to get preference.


And with the personal attacks, my degree isn't even in IT, I majored in something else and just did a specialization in it.

Ok Champ.

 

[Kid McNamara]

Anyway guys, don't waste time and money on a degree unless you have a specific reason for doing so. Only go to certain schools and only pick from certain majors, otherwise you're throwing away money, potential earnings, and time.

There is a game out here being played, put yourself in position to win.

Also, in terms of taking advice from folks on this forum or in this thread, make sure you know who you're talking to. There are a lot of folks pushing info but few who actually have an understanding of what they're talking about.

Cats like @bdizzle have a decent understanding and generally won't steer you in the wrong directly. His results (I believe he makes over 150K and lives in a decent city, ATL), also speak for themselves.

In short...

 

[Regular Developer]

I used a bit of Mongo... pretty cool. A bit easier than SQL databases

MongoDB is just a type of NoSQL DB on the server side, right?

Would you guys recommend learning JavaScript if your a beginner? I've had a few classes with Perl so I am slightly familiar with it. I am a little torn between what I should focus on in IT. I am currently studying for my CCNA which I'll be taking in Jan. I recently graduated with an IT Security degree with a focus in Network Administration. Lucklily I was able to find a NOC job immediately after.
I've always had a slight interest in web developmemt because of the idea I'm creating something and the vast opportunities that web dev. has to offer.
I'm going to start getting the basics out the way through Code Academy. Afterwards I'll start doing projects since that's the best way I can learn.
Would you guys recommend learning JavaScript as a first?

For Web Development, I'm still kind of learning this sphere as well, but I don't think it hurts to learn Javascript first. Coming from backend development, Javascript is my favorite part of web development. I think what's more important, though, is getting a strong understanding of logic. You can always Google syntax/libraries. You jshould also read up on HTML and CSS, just so you have an idea of what is possible. I usually just google everything for this as well.

If you get into the software development side of IT, Good Luck!

 

[Regular Developer]

O, and just an update for anybody that was interested. I released my game on Google Play. I'm looking to get it on Iphone at some point, but I don't have a mac. Play, review it, rate it if you get a chance. Praying it does numbers

Catchfest

 

[TRFG]

Anyway guys, don't waste time and money on a degree unless you have a specific reason for doing so. Only go to certain schools and only pick from certain majors, otherwise you're throwing away money, potential earnings, and time.

There is a game out here being played, put yourself in position to win.

Also, in terms of taking advice from folks on this forum or in this thread, make sure you know who you're talking to. There are a lot of folks pushing info but few who actually have an understanding of what they're talking about.

Cats like @bdizzle have a decent understanding and generally won't steer you in the wrong directly. His results (I believe he makes over 150K and lives in a decent city, ATL), also speak for themselves.

In short...

Funny you say that because all the entry level jobs I've seen in the North Atlantic requires B.S/B.A degrees.

I won't say a degree is mandatory but you can get a lot of support while completing a degree. I mean at my university companies email the IT professors asking for IT students weekly so I can't see how a degree is a waste of time.

 

[kevm3]

MongoDB is just a type of NoSQL DB on the server side, right?


For Web Development, I'm still kind of learning this sphere as well, but I don't think it hurts to learn Javascript first. Coming from backend development, Javascript is my favorite part of web development. I think what's more important, though, is getting a strong understanding of logic. You can always Google syntax/libraries. You jshould also read up on HTML and CSS, just so you have an idea of what is possible. I usually just google everything for this as well.

If you get into the software development side of IT, Good Luck!

Yup, MongoDB is the main NoSQL solution.

 

[Pyrexcup]

Funny you say that because all the entry level jobs I've seen in the North Atlantic requires B.S/B.A degrees.

Hell at my university companies email the IT professors asking for IT students weekly so I can't see how a degree is a waste of time.

The guy thinks real life is a cartoon

 

[Data-Hawk]

hmm, thinking about going for one of the Red Hat certs. Since i'm still deciding on the next field of programming I want to get into. Visual Computing or embedded development( This is an area Linux dominates ). I figure I get back into Linux might as well pick up a cert along the way.

 

[Data-Hawk]

Get any course on Udemy for $10 Coupon.

Code: PCSTART10

Expires 9/30

 

[Kid McNamara]

Funny you say that because all the entry level jobs I've seen in the North Atlantic requires B.S/B.A degrees.

Hell at my university companies email the IT professors asking for IT students weekly so I can't see how a degree is a waste of time.

Yea, you're right.

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Any electrical engineer bruhs make the switch over to the coli cert gang?

Would be interested in reading about your transition. I'm thinking about making the switch but I'm unsure about the financial hit i might take due to lack of experience in IT.

 

[Dirty Mcdrawz]

my good brehs,


i'm looking to get comptia +a certified. do you guys know if there are any free online course anywhere? i've taken some sample quizzes and i've done pretty well, but i would feel better with some actual prep time and what not. any help would be appreciated.