Hes right. Theres literally no IT degree in 4 year schools here. The real ones I mean, not that devry bullshyt.
IT Certifications and Careers (Official Discussion Thread)
- Thread starter fendi_mane
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Hes right. Theres literally no IT degree in 4 year schools here. The real ones I mean, not that devry bullshyt.
At the end of the day Degrees are Gate keepers and essentially Certs in themselves, as it looks better than saying you self taught something. Also some people prefer structured courses opposed to self study. My only rule of thumb is dont take out more than half of the avg income of what you want to do in debt for any type of schooling.
Kid McNamara
'97 Mike Bibby
This is nonsense. Please read my post above. The stakes are too high for that type of thinking these days.
Stakes are also too high for you to be passing along bad information.
Thats not Networking or Security. In fact thats the only major in IT in any university. UNC and NC State has the same thing except its for masters.
well you guys are only into Security and all that jazz which has nothing to do with Software dev and stuff so I will assume that stuff just applies to y'all, but you aren't getting a software development job without a degree.
Kid McNamara
'97 Mike Bibby
Again, I never advised against obtaining a degree (if so, show me where).
I don't agree with this at all.
It's true that you don't need a degree to get into IT, but it definitely doesn't hurt (especially if you're still young) and definitely makes it easier to get your foot in the door. Plus it's easier to get past the glass ceiling. Later on in your career when that management job opens up in your department, the guy with the degree is usually going to be the one to get it. Not every degree is worthwhile but I can't say that doing something in IT isn't. Not only for the education but for the networking. My old manager retired from his job to teach IT classes at a community college...if there was an opening and he gave somebody in one of his classes a good reference, they'd probably be at the job of the list to get hired.
You can easily get into IT without a degree but I always encourage people to at least get an associates degree in something IT-related. It's worth it for the networking and it'll be easier to move up.
Kid McNamara
'97 Mike Bibby
Again, you're wrong and the stakes are too high to spread this type of misinformation.
Encouraging people to get an associates with no real cause or reasoning is encouraging them to waste their money.
I'll say it again, go to school (absolutely), but do not waste money on silly IT degrees. It is like majoring in a english or art history.
Major in computer science, economics, or engineering and get into the best school possible. If you can't hit a T50, go to community college (no point in spending money at a no-name school).
Worst case scenario, you go to community college, still can't get into a T50 and are forced to transfer to a state school; but guess what...you just saved $15-20K.
You graduate with a degree in something relevant, learn a skill set that differentiates you from competition and again, worst case scenario...you end up working in IT...but guess what, you've actually set yourself up for future success.
If you're going to school and majoring in IT, your time and money is better spent on the following.
CCNA/Security+ (Foot in the door) - 1/2 Months
CCNP - After a Year or so
Microsoft Certs - After a Year or so
GIAC Certs - After a year or so
OSCP - After a couple of years
CCIE - After 3-4 Years
CISSP - After 5 Years
...and the list goes on. You're networking while you're on the job and if you do it right, you're making over 100K in a few years.
If you're really doing it right, you go to school and study something meaningful while you're working.
- Get your company to pay for it
- Not have to go into debt at all
You completely missed the point.
Majoring in IT is absolutely not like majoring in english or art history because it can actually help you get a job. A lot of entry-level IT positions actually have an AS as a requirement...granted, if you have relevant experience that'll be overlooked but it's still that much easier to get a job with a degree. I work in an IT dept and best believe that HR will usually filter out resumes with no degrees. And I don't know why you're talking like certs and college are mutually exclusive or something. In fact the IT program at my local community college actually prepares you to take Microsoft/Cisco cert tests (and you get a voucher at the end of the semester).
But the most important reason college is good is the networking. Colleges will have all kinds of career fairs and you get lots of chances to meet people that already work in the industry. It's absolutely worth it. I'm all for picking a good major but to say that nobody should go to college unless they want to be an engineer is completely overboard.
Silver Surfer
Veteran
Not sure all this talk about not going to school.....but we wont even look at your resume if you don't got a bachelors on there
Kid McNamara
'97 Mike Bibby
Majoring in english and art history can help you get a job too, I mean, after all, it is a degree right (since this seems to be your argument)? And degrees are so valuable right?
If your goal is to get an entry-level IT position, it would be detrimental to spend two-years or four-years "getting a degree."
You're advising people to take out 50K in debt and forego 120K in earnings in order get a degree and end up in the exact same place they would have been without it (an entry-level position). This is terrible advice.
And if you truly believe a cat with no experience and a degree is beating out someone with experience and no degree, you're out of your mind.
As far as networking, you do that on the job. You become a great performer and network with folks who are actually in a position to improve your career, not a bunch of nobodies studying "IT" at a no-name college.
Again, I understand you're attempting to justify your bad decisions, but I'm trying to advise younger cats against making moves that will set them, and their careers back years.
I've never...ever met anyone with an "IT" degree who is worth anything. I've met plenty of people with no degrees and I've met some folks with unrelated degrees (english, history, etc.) who are top performers.
The guys who went to shytty no-name or online college and majored in "IT Studies" are always crap performers who hope their piece of paper will shield them from their obvious lack of knowledge, work ethic, and ability.
If you have questions, PM me.
tl;dr,
Youngins, do not go into debt without a plan or a reason.
The Real Guide to Our College Education System
Kid McNamara
'97 Mike Bibby
Depends on the position. Even then, a degree with no experience isn't going to beat out experience. Especially not in this climate.
Also, not sure if you read.
My advice is to go to school but maximize the opportunity. Do not waste money on no-name schools, online schools, and crap degrees which will yield little to no competitive advantage in the real world.
Any semi-smart person will realize that this leaves only a few options...
1. Go to a reputable school (or go to a two-year and transfer to a reputable school), T25 or T50.
2. Major in something meaningful: Engineering (Silicon Valley), Computer Science (Silicon Valley), Economics (Wall Street), etc.
3. If you get into a T10/Ivy, you can major in just about anything and make a jump.
Silver Surfer
Veteran
↓R↑LYB
I trained Sheng Long and Shonuff
IMO the Network+ is absolutely worthless. I've never seen a single job request or ask for the cert. Read the book if you want, but I wouldn't spend money on the cert.
And you don't need a networking cert for any of the Windows Server exams. The networking is geared towards windows networking (DNS, DHCP, basic host configuration, and all the network services).
If you want to learn Server 2012, then go for it. Also be careful of the advice you get. Never take advice from someone who you wouldn't trade places with. I've got a shyt ton of horrible advice over the years, and I listened to none of it.