Israel–Hamas War: 10/7/2023 - Present

[In The Zone '98]

This is ALL Hamas' fault.​

What is your view on the treatment of Palestine before 10/7/23. Based on the knowledge we have?

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

Also, the perception of Russia in the west is absolutely negative so any attempts at trying to exert influence through media using propaganda via spokespeople and statements in anyway is framed as the opinions of crackpot crazies and therefore immediately labeled illegitimate in the west.

The right in the west is pro Russia.

 

[Worthless Loser]

Nah, I guess an appropriate response to having a massive party next to a concetration camp would be to kick the speakers over.

Now you answer my question:

Should Isreal be allowed to continue to torment and occupy the palestinian people, blow up children and inspire the victims left behind to join the same group they helped rise to power to prevent palestians pushing for a palestinian state politically? Yes or no?

The onus for peace is on the ones with the power, yes or no?

No, they shouldn't be allowed.

So we can admit that both Israel and Hamas are in the wrong?

 

[™BlackPearl The Empress™]

Time out...

Tomorrow, an orchestrated domestic terrorist attack by tribes of native americans begin to declare war on the U.S and state everyone who lives in the U. S are occupiers.

You were born here? fukk it, not the people who colonized it so I'm attacking any and everyone on sight.

I am VERY sympathetic to Native Americas when looking at their history.

I still would say it's an action I don't support because the people today shouldn't have to deal with violence related to the subjugation of Native Americans. At the time? Oh yea, I wish they would have killed every European explorer who stepped foot on the soil for the first time.

-----------

Now, since this topic is at issue. I think we should all figure out what the rules of the intellectual fight is going to be.

Are we onformed, atleast, surface level as to what the "illegal settlement" was?

This whole situation has made me really research the history. Based on all of the rhetoric and loud debates, I was sure jews just came in and without any connection or actual pre-1948 presence in population just forces Palestinian control and government to cease to exist, move over and get the fukk out or be killed.

From what I understand, Palestine, the entire area was controlled by the imperial presence of the Ottoman Empire.

You know how long? 400 years.
During the 1800s, tens of thousands of jewish imigrants took root in those areas. They had no control and were just another population that was subject to the Ottoman imperial state.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire as a result of WW2, the British were essentially left to hold the bag.
------
My opinion - The British probably saw this as an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. The covert scheme to get Jewish population the fukk out of Europe because of their own xenophobia and to wash their hands of an area they didn't want or didn't have the resources to maintain.
------

Fast forward two decades of Palestine and modern day Israel being under British rule and they came up with the plan to establish a nation of Israel.
The original plan - proposed by the United Nations - was for the land to be partitioned into two states; a Jewish and Arab state. Unfortunately, the Arab delegates rejected it.

My point is, if the above is true, disregarding my opinion, shyt is not as black and white as illegal colonizers deserve to be killed on sight.

The topic of subjugation and apartheid of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government is definitely something that anti-Israel sentiment can be justifiably fueled by.

Again, at this point, there has been so much war, fighting and hostility that I can't support Hamas attacks as if this is all because of a one sided hostility.

If I'm Israeli and I'm 22 years old, there is no way I'm realistically thinking about a completely non physical response to Hamas or the history of wars against Israel. I should definitely have a moral compass and support the human treatment of Palestinians. But, these are both two populations that have intimate trauma and that makes the chicken or the egg conversation a bit multifaceted.

fukk...I didn't want to get in so deep with this issue but, I'm hear. I just have to ensure my opinion is not guided by disrespect and I'm not shouting at people to hear my point or be labeled as evil

Very balanced response. Rep

 

[Nkrumah Was Right]

Time out...

Tomorrow, an orchestrated domestic terrorist attack by tribes of native americans begin to declare war on the U.S and state everyone who lives in the U. S are occupiers.

You were born here? fukk it, not the people who colonized it so I'm attacking any and everyone on sight.

I am VERY sympathetic to Native Americas when looking at their history.

I still would say it's an action I don't support because the people today shouldn't have to deal with violence related to the subjugation of Native Americans. At the time? Oh yea, I wish they would have killed every European explorer who stepped foot on the soil for the first time.

-----------

Now, since this topic is at issue. I think we should all figure out what the rules of the intellectual fight is going to be.

Are we onformed, atleast, surface level as to what the "illegal settlement" was?

This whole situation has made me really research the history. Based on all of the rhetoric and loud debates, I was sure jews just came in and without any connection or actual pre-1948 presence in population just forces Palestinian control and government to cease to exist, move over and get the fukk out or be killed.

From what I understand, Palestine, the entire area was controlled by the imperial presence of the Ottoman Empire.

You know how long? 400 years.
During the 1800s, tens of thousands of jewish imigrants took root in those areas. They had no control and were just another population that was subject to the Ottoman imperial state.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire as a result of WW2, the British were essentially left to hold the bag.
------
My opinion - The British probably saw this as an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. The covert scheme to get Jewish population the fukk out of Europe because of their own xenophobia and to wash their hands of an area they didn't want or didn't have the resources to maintain.
------

Fast forward two decades of Palestine and modern day Israel being under British rule and they came up with the plan to establish a nation of Israel.
The original plan - proposed by the United Nations - was for the land to be partitioned into two states; a Jewish and Arab state. Unfortunately, the Arab delegates rejected it.

My point is, if the above is true, disregarding my opinion, shyt is not as black and white as illegal colonizers deserve to be killed on sight.

The topic of subjugation and apartheid of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government is definitely something that anti-Israel sentiment can be justifiably fueled by.

Again, at this point, there has been so much war, fighting and hostility that I can't support Hamas attacks as if this is all because of a one sided hostility.

If I'm Israeli and I'm 22 years old, there is no way I'm realistically thinking about a completely non physical response to Hamas or the history of wars against Israel. I should definitely have a moral compass and support the human treatment of Palestinians. But, these are both two populations that have intimate trauma and that makes the chicken or the egg conversation a bit multifaceted.

fukk...I didn't want to get in so deep with this issue but, I'm hear. I just have to ensure my opinion is not guided by disrespect and I'm not shouting at people to hear my point or be labeled as evil

I still would say it's an action I don't support because the people today shouldn't have to deal with violence related to the subjugation of Native Americans. At the time? Oh yea, I wish they would have killed every European explorer who stepped foot on the soil for the first time.

You benefit from their ethnic cleansing so of course you’d say that.



I’m sure in 200 years, Israelis will be doing land acknowledgments for indigenous Palestinians

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

What is your view on the treatment of Palestines before 10/7/23. Based on the knowledge we have?

Gazans have the right to exist just like every other human being on the planet.

Free of terrorists.

Hamas must be utterly destroyed.​

 

[MikelArteta]

Time out...

Tomorrow, an orchestrated domestic terrorist attack by tribes of native americans begin to declare war on the U.S and state everyone who lives in the U. S are occupiers.

You were born here? fukk it, not the people who colonized it so I'm attacking any and everyone on sight.

I am VERY sympathetic to Native Americas when looking at their history.

I still would say it's an action I don't support because the people today shouldn't have to deal with violence related to the subjugation of Native Americans. At the time? Oh yea, I wish they would have killed every European explorer who stepped foot on the soil for the first time.

-----------

Now, since this topic is at issue. I think we should all figure out what the rules of the intellectual fight is going to be.

Are we onformed, atleast, surface level as to what the "illegal settlement" was?

This whole situation has made me really research the history. Based on all of the rhetoric and loud debates, I was sure jews just came in and without any connection or actual pre-1948 presence in population just forces Palestinian control and government to cease to exist, move over and get the fukk out or be killed.

From what I understand, Palestine, the entire area was controlled by the imperial presence of the Ottoman Empire.

You know how long? 400 years.
During the 1800s, tens of thousands of jewish imigrants took root in those areas. They had no control and were just another population that was subject to the Ottoman imperial state.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire as a result of WW2, the British were essentially left to hold the bag.
------
My opinion - The British probably saw this as an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. The covert scheme to get Jewish population the fukk out of Europe because of their own xenophobia and to wash their hands of an area they didn't want or didn't have the resources to maintain.
------

Fast forward two decades of Palestine and modern day Israel being under British rule and they came up with the plan to establish a nation of Israel.
The original plan - proposed by the United Nations - was for the land to be partitioned into two states; a Jewish and Arab state. Unfortunately, the Arab delegates rejected it.

My point is, if the above is true, disregarding my opinion, shyt is not as black and white as illegal colonizers deserve to be killed on sight.

The topic of subjugation and apartheid of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government is definitely something that anti-Israel sentiment can be justifiably fueled by.

Again, at this point, there has been so much war, fighting and hostility that I can't support Hamas attacks as if this is all because of a one sided hostility.

If I'm Israeli and I'm 22 years old, there is no way I'm realistically thinking about a completely non physical response to Hamas or the history of wars against Israel. I should definitely have a moral compass and support the human treatment of Palestinians. But, these are both two populations that have intimate trauma and that makes the chicken or the egg conversation a bit multifaceted.

fukk...I didn't want to get in so deep with this issue but, I'm hear. I just have to ensure my opinion is not guided by disrespect and I'm not shouting at people to hear my point or be labeled as evil

Good response. Like I mentioned before, even before west bank was under jordan control and gaza under egyptian control. The people of palestine were never really "free". If every israeli and every jew left tomorrow.........egypt, jordan, lebanon would prob wage a war for the land. These arab nations don't even allow visa free access for palestinians only AFRICAN Countries allow a palestinian with a passport to travel visa free.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

No.

With the history presented to us, is the occupation of Palestine and the treatment of its people just?

How far back do you mean by history and what do you mean by 'Palestine'?​

 

[itsyoung!!]

How far back do you mean by history and what do you mean by 'Palestine'?​

Go tie some cinderblocks around your legs and jump off the closest bridge near you

 

[Budda]

..

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Go tie some cinderblocks around your legs and jump off the closest bridge near you

Get Hamas out of Gaza.​

 

[Jeshaman]

Those guys are Mizrahi. They're original Middle Eastern Jews and often on the religious far right. Their origins could be from Morocco, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, etc.

Ashkenazi are mostly liberal European ones. You also have the Falasha i.e. Ethiopian Jews that have come to Israel in great numbers since the 1990s. The current Netanyahu government is the first which includes far-right Mizrahi ministers.

Mizrahi Jews typically follow Sephardic religious practices and advocate for the establishment of a religious state governed by Jewish law. Some critics have likened their stance to the extremism seen in certain factions like ISIS.

That brings a good point about the judiciary. The Israeli High Court currently consists of 14 Ashkenazi judges and only one Mizrahi judge. The current Netanyahu government, proposed a parliamentary mechanism to challenge and potentially overturn the court's decisions, leading to the widespread protests all throughout this year. The leaders of the military and security services, mostly Ashkenazi, have also opposed the government move against the court.

It's quite possible that there was intelligence pointing to the Hamas attack, but that it was not revealed to let Netanyahu fall into a trap.

There are already demands for Netanyahu to go. If only for his long term sponsoring of Hamas as a counterweight to the Fatah Palestinians. Should he no longer be PM the courts will take up the three bribery cases against him which are currently pending. He would likely end up in jail.

Thanks for this. So a bunch of people from everywhere but Palestine being dikheads? Just like I thought.

 

[Carl Tethers]

Chill breh

Nah

You dehumanise folk offhand like that, you don't get to cry about the smoke

 

[FAH1223]

Thanks for this. So a bunch of people from everywhere but Palestine being dikheads? Just like I thought.

There's another category of migrants to Israel. The Russian Jews who came after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

[In The Zone '98]

How far back do you mean by history and what do you mean by 'Palestine'?​

Let's go with 1948 until now

I mean the two countries at beef which this thread is centered on.

Isreal occupies Palestine, no? Should this dynamic continue?