I guess no one gives a fukk about Whiteside anymore, huh?
True but those are mostly power forwards you listedNah, these young guys weren't checking for Marc like that.
Hakeem
Dirk
Tim
KG
Pau
Those are the guys most of these young bigs have emulated, Dirk is the one who showed them they didn't have to always play in the post. Pau because he was on so many nationally televised games and played with Kobe, Hakeem via youtube and in Embiids case VHS tapes.
Would Jordan have even played with a 3 point line before college?
the best player has been a gawd/perimeter player for a while
plus the teams winning chips definitely had sufficient guard play/perimeter play
even in the time when bigs were in supposed decline the constant was a skilled guard to carry the load
kobe got rings after shaq and shaq never saw nothing without either mamba or flash
*
Arvydas Sabonis would've feasted in today's NBA
It was here two years ago but now you got potential superstars.I know we've been talking about this for a few years running now, but it feels like it's really happening.
Cousins is top-5 in the NBA in scoring and is getting a ton of attention
Towns is an offensive force
Embiid looks as good as advertized
Gobert is a defensive monster
Jokic and Nurkic both rising up into versatile stars
Marc Gasol is still kicking along as a great player on both ends
Vucevic is on the verge of being a 20 and 10 guy
The Lopez brothers are both averaging 15+ ppg
And I just named 10 centers without getting to Drummond, Adams, Horford, Capela, Gortat, Kanter, Sabonis, Dwight, DeAndre, or Pau.
Of those, Embiid, Towns, Gobert, Jokic, Nurkic, Drummond, Adams, Sabonis, and Capela are all 25 or younger.
Might be the end of those dry years where guys like Brad Miller, Jamaal Magloire, Tyson Chandler, etc. were being named to the All-Star game because there weren't enough real stars at center to fill out the roster.
Because it wasn't even in the game's fabricWhy does that matter? You think every one of these centers were burying threes in high school? Gasol, Vucevic, and Lopez all literally developed their three last year.
Vucevic:
First 5 years in NBA: averages one three a season
2016/17: Suddenly starts hitting 31% on 1 three/game
2017/18: Now hitting 41% on 4 threes/game
Lopez:
First 7 years in NBA: doesn't hit a single three in first 5 years, only has 3 career threes total
2016/17: Suddenly starts hitting 35% on 5 threes/game
2017/18: Now hitting 40% on 5 threes/game
Gasol:
First 8 years in NBA: averages one three a season
2016/17: Suddenly starts hitting 39% on 4 threes/game
2017/18: Now hitting 35% on 5 threes/game
You're talking three centers who basically hadn't taken a three in their entire career, who in ONE YEAR were able to post more prolific 3pt-shooting seasons that Jordan ever did.
You have to admit that is insane skill development, especially when considering that these are 7', 260lb players who were in the NBA for entirely different reasons.
Shaq got rings after kobe and kobe never saw nothing without either Shaq or Pau. Your point is meaningless.
Arvydas would have feasted in EVERY NBA.
He was drafted to be on the Drexler-Porter-Kersey-B.Williams team that made two Finals (nearly took Bulls to 7) with Duckworth as their center.
Russia's idiocy with injury management cost the man some Finals MVPs.
The only thing that really matters at the end of the day is balance; none of this guard, wing, big man basketball praxis nonsense.
Good guards give you the highest FLOOR as a contending team in todays NBA, but a transcendent center/big man has and always will give you the highest CEILING in a championship matchup, provided the rest of the roster is up to snuff. Physical mismatches are still too big of a factor, even in the age of chucking 3s with reckless abandon, for that to change any time soon. Especially with how perimeter D tightens up the deeper you go into the playoffs.
Why is it not true. When was an elite big man in his prime the second option?Nah, this is not true at all.
Depends on who YOU classify as an "elite big man".Why is it not true. When was an elite big man in his prime the second option?
I think it's pretty obviousDepends on who YOU classify as an "elite big man".
I been saying this for a minute. The #1 need in the NBA has always been to have players capable of executing the team's needs across the floor. Some of those needs only ballhandlers can execute, some of those needs only big men can execute.
I just don't see your evidence for that.
Ewing and Robinson never even won championships. Hakeem barely won a couple championships by the skin of his teeth in a diluted era the year after Jordan/Magic/Bird retired. Two of Shaq's three titles as the team leader required massive bailouts by the refs to even make the Finals.
Meanwhile, Magic (later years), Isaiah, Jordan, Lebron, Curry have led some fantastic teams.
I don't see the actual evidence that having a great big man gives you a greater ceiling.
Why is it not true. When was an elite big man in his prime the second option?
I was talking more the modern era but yeah Russell would be an exceptionDepends on your definition.
Russell every single year he played
Wilt every year after 1966
Kareem arguably through the early 1980s (switched to duel first option at some point)
Shaq when he played with Wade (arguably not prime)
Duncan arguably from around 2006/2007 (duel first options)
It's just as hard to say "When were elite perimeter players like Oscar/West/Jordan/Drexler/Iverson/Kobe/TMac/Wade/Carmelo/Lebron/Durant/Curry in their prime ever the 2nd option?"
Did you just say since forever?
Up until about maybe 2009 did the NBA become so ball centric that the center/PF was out of the equation
Even in Jordan's era, you weren't winning shyt without a dominant big man. How many titles Jordan won without Horace Grant or Rodman?
Remember when The Bulls WITH JORDAN on the team in 1995 lost in the playoffs. Who they lost to? The Orlando Magic, with Shaq at center
Not until Rodman joined the Bulls did they go on that legendary 72-10 championship season
List all the hall of fame guards in the history of the NBA prior to 2009. Did they win ANYTHING without a talented Big man? I'll wait
Prior to 2009, you wasn't winning shyt without a dominant/talented big man. Only reason it changed was because the center position has been downright disgraceful for damn near a decade. Since there was no talented big men, it was easier for teams to play small ball. Now that the big man position is coming back, you're seeing the difference
Keep watching sportscenter casual