illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?

THE MACHINE

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Illmatic is the product of typical NY hype and the fact that everyone sees they're favorite rappers first album as a classic. The lyrics are average at best but the fact that its a bunch of profound, yet scrambled thoughts from a 20 yr old was too much bait for the hiphop masses not to bite on. Great album, but top 5-10 :rudy:
 

intilectual recipricol

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The op was green before he made this thread. Now he's red. :heh:

Why are you in the thread dikkrider? You internet dudes kill me, think I give fukc about a "rep" :bryan: nicca I'm on a naS stan/NY dikkridin site dissin illmatic with a picture of Biggie's supposed killer as my avi and you think I care about rep :laff: LMAO @ you even studyin me so hard that you know what my rep was at any given time...

could you be any more on my dikc?
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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Why are you in the thread dikkrider? You internet dudes kill me, think I give fukc about a "rep" :bryan: nicca I'm on a naS stan/NY dikkridin site dissin illmatic with a picture of Biggie's supposed killer as my avi and you think I care about rep :laff: LMAO @ you even studyin me so hard that you know what my rep was at any given time...

could you be any more on my dikc?

:umad: as fukk b. Relax.
 

intilectual recipricol

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firstly, Common is very straight forward too. he i my favorite rapper and one of his strongest points is his directness. secondly, nas, pac and common all have the ability to be poetic, which is a far greater lyrical feat than just having multi's, punchlines or wordplay.

as far as NY State Of Mind, it contains narrative instances but it doesn't follow a narrative/storyline it follows a theme, and the theme is the state of mind, which everything relates back to. how dense are you son? its even in the song title to make it all the more clear. everything is coherently related back to the theme, thats how the lines are connected.

Definition of POETIC : having or expressing the qualities of poetry (as though aesthetic or emotional impact) <her poetic beauty>

Definition of POETRY : writing that formulates a concentrated imaginative awareness of experience in language chosen and arranged to create a specific emotional response through meaning, sound, and rhythm

Definition of POEM : something suggesting a poem (as in expressiveness, lyricism, or formal grace)
Common has shown great use of metaphor and wordplay... Much more than naS. And I agree, naS, Common, and Pac could be very poetic... personally I think naS and Pac were better at that as time progressed. naS was so much more poetic on IWW than he was on illmatic that I'd be mad if I were him that people keep talkin this illmatic talk. IWW he was so much more polished. "If I Ruled the World" is so much more poetic and polished than anything on illmatic that I feel rude by even mentioning it.

Being poetic has its qualities. That was never debated in this thread. Pac is the GOAT without being a lyrical monster like the aforementioned rappers. That wasnt the point of the thread. And most rappers are poetic TBH. The point of the thread was that illmatic isnt the lyrical masterpiece people try to make it out to be.

And youre agreeing with me, but mad that Im saying it. :manny:

If you wanna talk story tellin, naS and biggie are probably in a class of their own... but were not talkin that.
 

Tuling

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Why are you in the thread dikkrider? You internet dudes kill me, think I give fukc about a "rep" :bryan: nicca I'm on a naS stan/NY dikkridin site dissin illmatic with a picture of Biggie's supposed killer as my avi and you think I care about rep :laff: LMAO @ you even studyin me so hard that you know what my rep was at any given time...

could you be any more on my dikc?
Why the fukk do you have Biggie's killer in your avi? :why:
 

Man On Fire

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In the 1st fukcin bar we get probably one of the corniest moments EVER laid on a beat

Rappers I monkey flip 'em with the funky rhythm I be kickin

what funky rhythm nicca? who have you "monkey flipped?" this shyt is a straight throw away...

Musician, inflictin composition
of pain I'm like Scarface sniffin cocaine
Holdin a M-16, see with the pen I'm extreme, now
Bulletholes left in my peepholes


The fukc are you talkin about nicca? this is some incoherent bullshyt. How do you inflict composition of pain? Shyt doesnt make sense b. He might be like Scarface sniffin coke though... but is it dope or even well written? Not even close.

I'm suited up in street clothes
Hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes
Y'all know my steelo with or without the airplay
I keep some E&J, sittin bent up in the stairway
Or either on the corner bettin Grants with the celo champs


Are you suited OR are you in street clothes? Make up your mind dumb ass. Hand you a nine and you'll defeat foes? :laff: sounds like youre just sayin anything to rhyme actually... "hand me a beat i'll put words together just to match" shoulda been his lyrics. So whether or not they play him on the radio he keeps Erk in the stairway? more incoherent rhymes.

Laughin at baseheads, tryin to sell some broken amps
G-Packs get off quick, forever nikkaz talk shyt
Remeniscing about the last time the Task Force flipped


This is lyrical to you dumb asses? More incoherent rhymes. All throw aways by the way.

nikkaz be runnin through the block shootin
Time to start the revolution, catch a body head for Houston
Once they caught us off guard, the Mac-10 was in the grass and
I ran like a cheetah with thoughts of an assassin


nicca WTF are you talkin about, really?




Pick the Mac up, told brothers, "Back up," the Mac spit
Lead was hittin nikkaz one ran, I made him backflip
Heard a few chicks scream my arm shook, couldn't look
Gave another squeeze heard it click yo, my shyt is stuck
Try to cock it, it wouldn't shoot now I'm in danger
Finally pulled it back and saw three bullets caught up in the chamber


how did this nicca magically appear in this situation? and this nicca is just ramblin on about nothin... we several bars in and this nicca has said anything lyrical or written anything noteworthy.

So now I'm jetting to the building lobby
and it was filled with children probably couldn't see as high as I be

best thing I can say about this was it flowed, but does it make sense? Was it or was it not filled with children... nicca through probably in there just to rhyme, nothing about it is lyrical nor does it add to the story.

(So whatchu sayin?) It's like the game ain't the same
Got younger nikkaz pullin the triggers bringing fame to they name
and claim some corners, crews without guns are goners
In broad daylight, stickup kids, they run up on us
Fo'-fives and gauges, Macs in fact
Same nikkaz'll catch a back to back, snatchin yo' cracks in black


:trash:

There was a snitch on the block gettin nikkaz knocked
So hold your stash until the coke price drop
I know this crackhead, who said she gotta smoke nice rock
And if it's good she'll bring ya customers in measuring pots, but yo
You gotta slide on a vacation
Inside information keeps large nikkaz erasin and they wives basin
It drops deep as it does in my breath
I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
Beyond the walls of intelligence, life is defined
I think of crime when I'm in a New York state of mind


and of course what a garbage way to end a garbage verse. WTF is this nicca ramblin on about? Fukc is this nicca talkin about a vacation for? this is all incoherent word salad. All of it is of little to no value...

1 verse in and we have nothing but incoherent trash ramblings

:piss: :troll: thread
 

up in here

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Common has shown great use of metaphor and wordplay... Much more than naS. And I agree, naS, Common, and Pac could be very poetic... personally I think naS and Pac were better at that as time progressed. naS was so much more poetic on IWW than he was on illmatic that I'd be mad if I were him that people keep talkin this illmatic talk. IWW he was so much more polished. "If I Ruled the World" is so much more poetic and polished than anything on illmatic that I feel rude by even mentioning it.

Being poetic has its qualities. That was never debated in this thread. Pac is the GOAT without being a lyrical monster like the aforementioned rappers. That wasnt the point of the thread. And most rappers are poetic TBH. The point of the thread was that illmatic isnt the lyrical masterpiece people try to make it out to be.

And youre agreeing with me, but mad that Im saying it. :manny:

If you wanna talk story tellin, naS and biggie are probably in a class of their own... but were not talkin that.

being poetic is a lyrical quality and illmatic is a lyrical masterpiece. most rappers aren't poetic. one of the many strong points of illmatic is that it uses many different lyrical formats without relying on one dominant method.

either way, its clear illmatic goes over your head and your only way to accept that is to troll. and thats ok, do you son
 

intilectual recipricol

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being poetic is a lyrical quality and illmatic is a lyrical masterpiece. most rappers aren't poetic. one of the many strong points of illmatic is that it uses many different lyrical formats without relying on one dominant method.

either way, its clear illmatic goes over your head and your only way to accept that is to troll. and thats ok, do you son

you are dumb as a rock.

you stated everything I said, but want to come with a different conclusion. Im convinced you naS groupies dropped out in Jr high like his dumb ass.

bein poetic doesnt mean you have great lyricism, typa dumb shyt you on? And yeah, all rappers are poetic if you really want to be technical. Some use more literary devices or use them better than others.

LMAO @ the fact you been pushed into weird corners tryin to call illmatic a lyrical masterpiece. :laff: nicca said "lyrical formats"

nicca show the difference between naS lyrical formats and waka flocka lyrical formats
 

up in here

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you are dumb as a rock.

you stated everything I said, but want to come with a different conclusion. Im convinced you naS groupies dropped out in Jr high like his dumb ass.

bein poetic doesnt mean you have great lyricism, typa dumb shyt you on? And yeah, all rappers are poetic if you really want to be technical. Some use more literary devices or use them better than others.

LMAO @ the fact you been pushed into weird corners tryin to call illmatic a lyrical masterpiece. :laff: nicca said "lyrical formats"

nicca show the difference between naS lyrical formats and waka flocka lyrical formats

do you son. do you
 

DANJ!

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This reciprocol nikka's a Lupe Fiasco fan, and that's really all you gotta know to see how he'll sit here and try to discount 'Illmatic' while being a fan of a dude who INCESSANTLY spits smart-dumb nikka bars all up and through his catalog.
 

intilectual recipricol

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do you son. do you

come on man, you said the "lyrical formats" made illmatic a lyrical masterpiece.... show the difference between naS lyrical formats and Waka Flocka's... should be easy right?


This whole thread is hilarious because we got all these naS stans and not one of em tried to show how any of this shyt was lyrical other than just sayin it. Then they got so mad they started dissin Pac lyrics. :jawalrus:

But all these fakkets know that I put Lupe up top as far as lyricists go, with Jigga up there, and 3 Stacks... not one of these stans even tried to shyt on the lyricism of those three, which shows you niccaz know the human L aint fukcin with real lyricists

If a nicca said Lupe aint a lyricist I could easily point to some shyt to shut their whole shyt down...without mentioning "lyrical formats" :bryan:
 

up in here

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come on man, you said the "lyrical formats" made illmatic a lyrical masterpiece.... show the difference between naS lyrical formats and Waka Flocka's... should be easy right?


This whole thread is hilarious because we got all these naS stans and not one of em tried to show how any of this shyt was lyrical other than just sayin it. Then they got so mad they started dissin Pac lyrics. :jawalrus:

But all these fakkets know that I put Lupe up top as far as lyricists go, with Jigga up there, and 3 Stacks... not one of these stans even tried to shyt on the lyricism of those three, which shows you niccaz know the human L aint fukcin with real lyricists

If a nicca said Lupe aint a lyricist I could easily point to some shyt to shut their whole shyt down...without mentioning "lyrical formats" :bryan:

son. lyrical format = literary devices. i just couldn't remember the right words. sue me.

either way, you shytting on nas while praising lupe (who i also think is a lyrical monster) but check it, i can just post these lupe lyrics right here from his debut LP and let you tell me how this is so far ahead of what nas was doing on illmatic:

Lusssst... sometimes can override trusssst
She said that's why she gave it up
My man said blood spilled out of everything he tou-chhhhed
He crushed everything he crushed
Ruined everything he loved, he just wanted to rushhhhh
Blamed it on the times bein rough
Doin dirt, with the devil, chasin after the dusssst
Make a fussss, if it's them, but we hushhh, if it's us

Lifffffe... ain't meant to come around twiiiice
Yeah, that's why I gotta get it right
They said I got it honest now I gotta give it LIFE
But sleep on it, that's why God give you night
I mean, I had a dream that, God gave me FLIGHT
Too fly for my own good so, God gave me plight
If I wake up in the mornin now I gotta give 'em SIGHT
Make 'em see, break 'em free, ain't a G, sho' you right

Struggle... yeah yeah, another sign that God love you
Cause on the low, bein po', make you humble
Keep they names in my rhymes to try and keep them out of trouble
Cause bein po', also teach you how to hustle
All they want is some shoes or some rims for they bubble
Now that I got my own, I can hit them with a couple
Couple, my homies so they ain't got no reason to cuff you
That's my plan, if I can, on the man, up above you
 

Darts

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Troll thread had a spark when it started...now its just garbage. :flabbynsick:


One * Neg Rep
 
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