If You're not going to college for STEM, You should go to trade school

[WIA20XX]

I think there is some truth to what you say OP but I think the bigger focus should be on what job you may want to (or have to) work in, the availability of that job and then what degrees can lead to that job.

This is a nicer way of saying "follow your passion" - and I think its wrong.

A kid might be into video games, comic books, anime, - and maybe learning to program in C++ might lead them to an actual job in the field of gaming - but Game Devs are some of the lowest paid in the industry. The company makes money, the employees make peanuts, and better be happy about it, cause there are 10 other people willing to do it.

For most people, very little of what people "may want to do" pays a living wage - home/vehicle/loans/food. In fact there's a lot of bs jobs that don't pay a living wage.

I say, choose money, and don't derive your satisfaction from punching a clock.

One of the issues I have seen are people going to school to get a degree solely with a plan to start a business or work independently. That same degree should have a viable job option if the entrepreneur options don't work. At the end, there just needs be better planning. I don't think our culture (I am excluding African immigrants based on my experience) from a parental stand point don't offer enough direction before their children go to college.

I think a structured entrepreneurial route is one of the best alternatives to college educated, but based on prior discussions the The Coli can't entertain that idea at all.

If you think "not everyone is cut out for school" is bad, the "not everyone can run a business" is far worse here.

 

[WIA20XX]

I think it all depends on location and your alumni network.

There's a lot of marketing and advertising people making good money these days . Same for architects.

Hell finance and econ grads lock in at an investment firm or big bank and are eating better than anybody damn near.


Keep hearing don't do this or that but still see people in those fields having success

You're supplying a lot of context, which I appreciate.

There's a lot of "one could make it work" in your context, but that's not something I would tell young people to do.

There are millions of people with marketing and advertising degrees - that went to the wrong schools, or went to the right schools but weren't the top 10% - and they aren't making money with those very valuable skills.

I know some Econs here in DC. Lucky to have Government jobs. I really wonder what they do outside of DC tbh, cause it's a rare job though fairly common major.

In NYC - I knew a ton of I-bankers, and even more people with finance degrees that weren't i-bankers. As cut throat as trying to get on with the Fed.

Straight up, It's not easy to get any job - not even in the things I'm promoting (stem or trades) - but it's an order of magnitude harder for a field with no demand or with too many people with the same credential.

 

[GetSomeMoney]

This is a nicer way of saying "follow your passion" - and I think its wrong.

A kid might be into video games, comic books, anime, - and maybe learning to program in C++ might lead them to an actual job in the field of gaming - but Game Devs are some of the lowest paid in the industry. The company makes money, the employees make peanuts, and better be happy about it, cause there are 10 other people willing to do it.

For most people, very little of what people "may want to do" pays a living wage - home/vehicle/loans/food. In fact there's a lot of bs jobs that don't pay a living wage.

I say, choose money, and don't derive your satisfaction from punching a clock.



I think a structured entrepreneurial route is one of the best alternatives to college educated, but based on prior discussions the The Coli can't entertain that idea at all.

If you think "not everyone is cut out for school" is bad, the "not everyone can run a business" is far worse here.

I think you misinterpreted my original point about understanding the job they would get. It's not so much about "following your passions" as it is about understanding what jobs your "passion" degree will/could realistically yield. I have seen way to many people go to college for a degree and when you ask them the plan after school, they come up with things like wanting start a life coach business or some online seo marketing business, they never think about the traditional alternatives based around their degree choice. I have African friends and their parents gave them their options for school, lol, but in all honesty we need way more input from parents in our community (black Americans), college is too expensive of a investment to leave the decision making up to a 17/18 year old solely.

 

[Shadow King]

Everybody can't work the same 8 jobs ...

 

[yung Herbie Hancock]

Engineers are severely underpaid

Because most american engineers are less competitive than engineers overseas. Notice how the main engineers that make bank are defense contractors

 

[The Pledge]

People don't seem to understand that if everyone is in STEM, those STEM degrees will be just as useless as the other degrees they view as useless.

Not in this lifetime will a fukking engineering degree be as useless as anthropology or fine arts

I hate these kinda cope comments

Stats don’t fukking lie.

If you’re going to college right now to get a career that will make you money above the national average, it’s gonna be STEM. Why the fukk is this considered a hot take?

No one is saying you can’t make a living doing other shyt but gtfoh if you think STEM will be useless.

The crux of the thread is for people NOT to go into major debt with college over a non STEM degree.

Not for people to do whatever they want career wise

 

[Ol’Otis]

Finance/Economics - No.

Why?

 

[TheGreatMTB]

Not in this lifetime will a fukking engineering degree be as useless as anthropology or fine arts

I hate these kinda cope comments

Stats don’t fukking lie.

If you’re going to college right now to get a career that will make you money above the national average, it’s gonna be STEM. Why the fukk is this considered a hot take?

No one is saying you can’t make a living doing other shyt but gtfoh if you think STEM will be useless.

The crux of the thread is for people NOT to go into major debt with college over a non STEM degree.

Not for people to do whatever they want career wise

I don't think you understand my point here. Your engineering salary is inflated because the corporations have to pay you that money to lure talent in...because there is a scarcity. They are not paying you because they like you, or because they have an appreciation for engineering. In fact, they'd pay you minimum wage if the market was strong enough for them to do so. If everyone in college changed to become an engineering major right now, your salary and job security would deflate within a few decades as a surge of experienced candidates spread into the workforce.

Why do you think Google and Facebook and all these companies are exploring certifications and pathways to circumvent the need for STEM degree, and lower the barrier of entry to the STEM career fields? The value of a STEM degree is already being actively questioned by several corporations. In fact...most STEM jobs could be accomplished without a college degree if we're being honest.

 

[WIA20XX]

Why?

~60k finance graduates every year, 20K entry level jobs available. - 3 applicants to open positions - and I'm betting there's a lot of geographical mismatch as well.

Law school is a little better, with 1.5 apps per position - but it's considerably more time and money than a 4 year finance degree.
Accounting is like 1 entry level job for every new grad.

With Finance, IF you get on with a good organization, stay in the organization, the potential pay out is awesome - but that's why those entry level positions are fought for.

If someone wants to be a robot about this - it's about looking at the # of graduates per year, # of jobs, the distribution of those jobs around the country, the pay opportunities, projected longevity and prolly some other factors.

 

[Givethanks]

Wouldn't that oversaturate the market?

We need people to go to school for a variety of things.


But God knows if I have a son or daughter they're only going to school for STEM or doing a trade lol

 

[WIA20XX]

I think you misinterpreted my original point about understanding the job they would get. It's not so much about "following your passions" as it is about understanding what jobs your "passion" degree will/could realistically yield.

I don't have that much faith in a High School Junior/Senior to do that sort of analysis.

They tend to lack exposure to different fields, but also don't really understand their own aptitudes as a result.

Good convo tho

 

[WIA20XX]

Wouldn't that oversaturate the market?

We need people to go to school for a variety of things.


But God knows if I have a son or daughter they're only going to school for STEM or doing a trade lol

Those people going to school for a variety of things - remain poor/working poor.

There's an overall problem with the capitalist structure because it needs a lot of people to be poor for a few to be rich.

But in 2024, we need more plumbers and less sociology majors.

 

[Kyle C. Barker]

I love it when y'all post data.

This is an old data point (2014), but there are are ~106,000K working psychologists in America

How many psychologists are licensed in the United States?

Becoming licensed as a psychologist is typically the culmination of earning a doctoral degree in clinical, counseling or school psychology.

www.apa.org

Will growth in psychology degrees continue?

Psychology degrees increased in the last decade, but 2023 enrollment numbers are reason for concern.

www.apa.org

106K working currently, but 134K graduating every year.

What the #'s tell us is that America graduates lots of psych majors, but most of psych degree holders don't get to that 250K level.

Turns out most of the psych majors run into some roadblocks when it comes to getting into the medical/money side of the game.

This pattern exists across most fields - but some are much more equitable than others.

I think you and @UpNext might have talked past each other while both being right.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are two different paths. One requires a PhD and the other requires med school.

 

[WIA20XX]

I think you and @UpNext might have talked past each other while both being right.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are two different paths. One requires a PhD and the other requires med school.

He posted psychiatrist stats from a psychology jobs website. It's all good though.

 

[NinoBrown]

STEM + Certs for me has allowed me great prosperity and I wouldn't have gotten anywhere near 6 figs going the Liberal Arts route...