If Bron wins his 5th ring/5th FMVP next year, back to back with LA. Would you consider him GOAT?

[Leavingtheecstasy]

using a known dikkriders corny arguments almost verbatim, you might as well call him daddy


you a grown man passing another man’s dikk riding tweets as your own

expect to get taken seriously when you can’t articulate a simple sports argument as your own


were you raised by a bunch of women?

Salty ass nikka mad yall aint getting no more rings now that KD left
Just talking shyt now because youre stupid and know you cant defend your bullshyt than pointing a finger like a child and going "but..but...nick wright"

it's sadder than i thought down in the warriors fandom. You'd think your asterisks wouldve kept you company.

 

[sfgiants]

Salty ass nikka mad yall aint getting no more rings now that KD left
Just talking shyt now because youre stupid and know you cant defend your bullshyt than pointing a finger like a child and going "but..but...nick wright"

it's sadder than i thought down in the warriors fandom. You'd think your asterisks wouldve kept you company.

Ok did you type that or did you have another man type it for you


You’ve already exposed yourself as a dikk rider who can’t articulate his own thoughts and tried to pass off a cacs tweets as his own arguments
Imagine doing this in real life, quoting Nick wright tweets in a barbershop sports discussion

then again people with autism usually have a hard time in speaking with others so that’s why you’re here juelzing and stealing another man’s arguments

Youre fukkin nasty. And maybe a little retarded

 

[FunkDoc1112]

I'm a Bron stan but some of y'all are getting more belligerent and fallacious than Kobe stans.

 

[Draje]

Ok did you type that or did you have another man type it for you


You’ve already exposed yourself as a dikk rider who can’t articulate his own thoughts and tried to pass off a cacs tweets as his own arguments
Imagine doing this in real life, quoting Nick wright tweets in a barbershop sports discussion

then again people with autism usually have a hard time in speaking with others so that’s why you’re here juelzing and stealing another man’s arguments

Youre fukkin nasty. And maybe a little retarded

So can you refute the point? Would Jimmy have looked better if he lost against the Celtics or Bucks instead of getting to the finals?

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Comparing Bron's last 6 Finals trips (so not even counting two championship years he won) and Playoff PER's in comparison to Jordan 6 trips

Bron

2020 33.6 (31.7 Playoffs)
2018 30.9 (33.2 Playoffs)
2017 30.9 (31.2 Playoffs)
2016 33.5 (31.5 Playoffs)
2015 27.5 (26.7 Playoffs) *No Kevin Love after 1st round and Kyrie missing games/last 5 finals games*
2014 32.6 (32.4 Playoffs)


Jordan *Adjusted for Pace* shoutout to @Houston911 who made me look it up.


1991 38.6 (37.9 for Playoffs)
1992 28.3 (30.7 for Playoffs)
1993 34 (34.7 for Playoffs)
1996 26 (30.6 for Playoffs)
1997 31.4 (29.7 for Playoffs)
1998 31.6 (31.5 for Playoffs)

The gap really isnt that great if at all. Basically there's 91 Jordan that clearly separates from any other version of both.

Its basically if 09 Bron had won a championship or had a better coach than Mike Brown

09 Bron had a 39 PER. I didnt adjust for pace. Left it as is...although the difference in pace wasnt too great between Bulls vs. Lakers in 91 (85.8) than Magic vs. Cavs (89.9)

Even though on the year that 91 Bulls team played at a faster pace overall than the 09 Cavs.

Regardless...its closer than people want to admit.

Why are you adjusting PER for pace when PER is already adjusted for pace???

 

[pickles]

He will never be GOAT.

When he wins 3 championships back to back on the same team (). I will consider the thought.

There is only one GOAT

 

[sfgiants]

So can you refute the point? Would Jimmy have looked better if he lost against the Celtics or Bucks instead of getting to the finals?

Could I argue with Nick wright? Yes I can
Will I do it on thecoli with someone with autism parroting his words? No I won’t

let’s have more respect for ourselves as men.

 

[fifth column]

The wins matter. The losses dont mean as much in context.
Thats simple logic.

If we holding finals losses accountable the first round exits should be as well.

I dont see how some of you arent getting this. Jordan was like westbrook in the playoffs before but playing better competition. When his competition got old he started winning.

At least lebron beat his best competition. Even if he lost to them too. He didnt just wait for the spurs and warriors to get old. He beat them both at least once. Hell even in context beating that 73-9 team is the biggest ring out of both his and Jordan's resumes.

For the record i still think Jordan the Goat, but if lebron wins one or two more finals mvps and claims kareems record i'm giving him the edge.

I like Bron but I’m not a Stanley or blind witness so don’t do this. How did Bron get over his competition? He kept forming super teams to gain an advantage and still lost a bunch. How did MJ overcome his competition? He stayed with his team and got better and closer to the chip until he eventually overcame his competition. Bron is not a grinder, he likes overwhelming odds in his favor. I notice a trend about losing in the 1st round blah blah with these MJ v Bron discussions which makes no sense. Bron and MJ took about the same amount of years to start dominating as the top dog and consistently going to finals. No reasonable person thinks that MJ or Bron came into the NBA already the goat. We are comparing and contrasting their peak powers so winning or losing matters in the finals.

 

[filial_piety]

Nope. Those finals losses work against him IMO....he has to do 2 (3) peats and not skip a beat at minimum and that boat has sailed.

His numbers are comparable...but then again so are Kareem's...but honestly Lebron just doesn't pass the eye test.

 

[Pack2]

I was born in 1978 and I've never seen a better basketball player than Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

Bron can win 3 more and I'll feel the same

 

[Pack2]

Bruh this is so easily proven wrong, I dont know why yall keep saying it. Its cool if Mike is greater to you, thats not a hard take, but the idea that Mike's peak was more than at best marginally better than LeBron's is not proven by ANY metric:

Top 10 Ortg Seasons
'91 Mike/'13 LeBron (125)
'96 Mike (124)
'88 Mike/'89 Mike/'90 Mike (123)
'09 LeBron (122)
'92 Mike/'97 Mike/'10 LeBron/'14 LeBron (121)

(Playoffs Ortg)
'09 LeBron (128)
'91 Mike (127)
'17 LeBron (125)
'14 LeBron/'20 LeBron (124)
'96 Mike (123)
'18 LeBron (121)
'85 Mike/'89 Mike/'90 Mike (120)

Top 10 DRtg Seasons
'12 LeBron ('97)
'09 LeBron ('99)
'96 Mike/'98 Mike/'07 LeBron (100)
'88 Mike/'13 LeBron (101)
'91 Mike/'92 Mike/'93 Mike/'97 Mike/'10 LeBron/'11 LeBron (102)

(Playoffs DRtg)
'07 LeBron/'08 LeBron/'12 LeBron/'15 LeBron (99)
'09 LeBron/'16 LeBron (100)
'91 Mike/'96 Mike/'97 Mike/'13 LeBron (101)

PER
'88 Mike/'09 LeBron (31.7)
'91 Mike/'13 LeBron (31.6)
'90 Mike (31.2)
'89 Mike/'10 LeBron (31.1)
'12 LeBron (30.7)
'87 Mike (29.8)
'93 Mike (29.7)

(Playoffs PER)
'09 LeBron (37.4)
'18 LeBron (32.2)
'91 Mike (32)
'90 Mike (31.7)
'14 LeBron (31.1)
'12 LeBron (30.3)
'20 LeBron (30.2)
'86 Mike/'93 Mike/'17 LeBron (30.1)

Top 10 WS Seasons
'88 Mike (21.2)
'96 Mike (20.4)
'91 Mike/'09 LeBron (20.3)
'89 Mike (19.8)
'13 LeBron (19.3)
'90 Mike (19)
'10 LeBron (18.5)
'97 Mike (18.3)
'92 Mike (17.7)

(Playoffs WS)
'12 LeBron (5.8)
'13 LeBron/'18 LeBron (5.2)
'91 Mike/'98 Mike/'09 LeBron (4.8)
'96 Mike/'16 LeBron (4.7)
'93 Mike (4.4)
'14 LeBron/'17 LeBron/'20 LeBron (4.7)

Top 10 WS/48 Seasons
'13 LeBron (322)
'91 Mike (321)
'09 LeBron (318)
'96 Mike (317)
'88 Mike (308)
'10 LeBron (299)
'12 LeBron (298)
'89 Mike (292)
'90 Mike (285)
'97 Mike (283)

(Playoffs WS/48)
'09 LeBron (399)
'91 Mike (333)
'96 Mike (306)
'90 Mike/'12 LeBron (284)
'17 LeBron (275)
'16 LeBron (274)
'89 Mike/'93 Mike/'14 LeBron (270)

Where is is shown Mike had a higher peak?

The reality is, if we say Mike's peak was ~roughly~ 1987-1996 (give or take a year), and LeBron’s was ~roughly~ 2008-2017 (give or take a year), they match up as eerily similar in degree of performance and what they accomplished in that span:

Peak Mike (1987-1996) vs Peak LeBron (2008-2017)
Mike 32.1/6.6/5.9/2.7/0.9 on 518/351/841 shooting (23.4 FGA); LeBron 27/7.5/7.3/1.6/0.8 on 523/352/747 shooting (18.7 FGA)

(Playoffs) Mike 33.8/6.4/6.1/2.2/0.9 on 498/366/828 shooting (24.9 FGA); LeBron 28.6/9.1/6.8/1.8/1 on 500/341/742 shooting (20.6 FGA)

(ORtg/Drtg) Mike 122/102; LeBron 119/102

(Playoffs) Mike 119/103; LeBron 118/102

(PER) Mike 30.1; LeBron 29.2

(Playoffs PER) Mike 29; LeBron 29

(WS/WS48) Mike 138/.292; LeBron 140.8/.268

(Playoffs) Mike 29.4/.263; LeBron 38.3/.260

Chips: Mike 4 (4-0 Finals); LeBron 3 (3-4 Finals)

FMVPs: Mike 4, LeBron 3

MVPs: Mike 4, LeBron 4

All-NBA: Mike 7x 1st Team; LeBron 9x 1st Team

DPOY: Mike 1, LeBron 0

All-Defense: Mike 7x 1st Team; LeBron 6x (5x 1st Team)

Exactly where is the gap? I can see how someone would give Mike the edge but thus is a comparison of both at the absolute top of their games, they are obviously neck and neck and you could easily make the argument LeBron should be considered greater...

All this data mining bullshyt from someone who never saw Mike play in a Bulls uniform

Yall need to give it a rest

 

[fifth column]

All this data mining bullshyt from someone who never saw Mike play in a Bulls uniform

Yall need to give it a rest

It’s entertaining watching these blind witnesses pull carefully curated numbers and still can’t make a reasonable case for Bron as goat. They really know no better

 

[FunkDoc1112]

I like Bron but I’m not a Stanley or blind witness so don’t do this. How did Bron get over his competition? He kept forming super teams to gain an advantage and still lost a bunch. How did MJ overcome his competition? He stayed with his team and got better and closer to the chip until he eventually overcame his competition.

MJ was signed to an 8 year contract that didn't expire until 1996. He didn't have a choice.

This is such a simplistic, surface-level argument. Not only did MJ constantly bytch about Chicago's lack of urgency in the free agent and trade markets up until his 7th year, he had it made up in his mind that he was going to leave once his contract was up.

He didn't bother demanding a trade because he knew Chicago would never trade him. He thought Reinsdorf was just content to ride his coattails to ticket sales and not build a championship team.

MJ got over the hump in his seventh year, LeBron didn't and that's when he left. Jordan was already pretty miserable by that point...who knows what decision he would make if Chicago didn't win in 1991?

Oh, and he was gonna team up with Patrick Ewing on the Knicks until Chicago gave him a contract literally worth the entire '97 salary cap.

 

[fifth column]

MJ was signed to an 8 year contract that didn't expire until 1996. He didn't have a choice.

This is such a simplistic, surface-level argument. Not only did MJ constantly bytch about Chicago's lack of urgency in the free agent and trade markets up until his 7th year, he had it made up in his mind that he was going to leave once his contract was up.

He didn't bother demanding a trade because he knew Chicago would never trade him. He thought Reinsdorf was just content to ride his coattails to ticket sales and not build a championship team.

MJ got over the hump in his seventh year, LeBron didn't and that's when he left. Jordan was already pretty miserable by that point...who knows what decision he would make if Chicago didn't win in 1991?

Oh, and he was gonna team up with Patrick Ewing on the Knicks until Chicago gave him a contract literally worth the entire '97 salary cap.

Well none of these things happened. Simple is the only way to tell the truth, with complication comes juelzing

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Of course the team with the most talent wins but ya'll continue to ignore context to perpetuate narratives. In Jordan's era, it was rare for a team to have more than one all-star. A lot of the best teams Jordan faced didn't have more than one all-star (Pacers, Knicks, Blazers) and the teams that did have two (the Jazz and Sonics most notably) didn't have the support players the Bulls had. Throughout Lebron's career, the best teams in the league (Celtics, Spurs, Lakers, Thunder, Warriors, Clippers, Rockets) had multiple all-stars. Lebron never really had a stacked deck and if you think he did then you gotta say Jordan did too.

Also, Scottie finished third in MVP voting in 1994 behind Hakeem and David Robinson. That was the only full year in his prime that he got to be the man and he averaged 22 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 steals on a near 60 win team.

Only thing I’ll say is. I meant first place votes. Like Russ Wilson has never gotten a first place MVP vote. Nobody ever thought he was best in the league, even though he’s gotten MVP votes, they were first place votes. Lebron was pissed this year he was second in MVP voting but got no 1st place votes. Meaning nobody had him number 1 on paper.

I’m not pippen was a bum. I’m saying Dream, Barkley, Malone. Dudes like that were seen as much better and above him


But everyone who quoted me was right. He was top 10 and most didn’t have that