IDF ground invasion of Gaza( Israel killed 2,700+ Palestinians) (Hamas is victorious)

[2Quik4UHoes]

Again with shyt we ALL know at this point.

I think Israel is definitely wilding out, but there are a few things HAMAS isn't doing to help the situation so lets address some things.

1. HAMAS does not represent Palestine's government. Lets get that straight.

Hamas is a part of the unity govt, all Palestinian parties are moving as one for the most part.

2. Don't bring up the self defense argument. People fight. They just do. And when you're losing, you can't keep using this argument. The bigger and (I don't want to say "better") more equipped side doesn't just use the mercy rule because you can't fight back as well as you thought you could. Rockets not being as effective on israeli targets doesn't mean you still ain't fire them.

This is a war, not a fight against two individuals. Israel for the first time has taken real hits in terms of perception and diplomatic relations. The worse Israel makes this and the longer it goes on, the more Hamas wins. This is about dragging your opponent down to your level, the longer a great nation fights a weak nation the weaker that great nation becomes.

3. This IS oppression and I never said I supported it, but HAMAS isn't some benevolent agent in all of this. Theres HAMAS, the palestinan government, and other rogue factions in the region all at work here. Don't tie me to these religious c00ns who have beef with jews or muslim virgins debating about jewsh legitimacy. None of that weighs in my views.

Again incorrect, Hamas is not a part of the Palestinian govt. That's what started this whole mess to begin with if you were paying attention. Netanyahu was salty about Hamas joining the fray and quit negotiations(if thats what you wanna call it) but this conflict has only solidified ties between the various factions. Hamas is an armed resistance, no one has ever called an armed resistance and innocent group.

 

[BocaRear]

Again with shyt we ALL know at this point.

I think Israel is definitely wilding out, but there are a few things HAMAS isn't doing to help the situation so lets address some things.

1. HAMAS does not represent Palestine's government. Lets get that straight.

2. Don't bring up the self defense argument. People fight. They just do. And when you're losing, you can't keep using this argument. The bigger and (I don't want to say "better") more equipped side doesn't just use the mercy rule because you can't fight back as well as you thought you could. Rockets not being as effective on israeli targets doesn't mean you still ain't fire them.

3. This IS oppression and I never said I supported it, but HAMAS isn't some benevolent agent in all of this. Theres HAMAS, the palestinan government, and other rogue factions in the region all at work here. Don't tie me to these religious c00ns who have beef with jews or muslim virgins debating about jewsh legitimacy. None of that weighs in my views.

1. Breh, Hamas was democratically-elected by the Palestinian people in 2006 with an 80% majority vote. Please don't buy that propaganda BS about them being a rogue terrorist organisation. That's part of Israel's agenda to delay real negotiations and peace talks. Hamas is painted as a terrorist organisation in order to undermine their legitimacy.

2. This isn't really a war. A war would imply that Palestine is actually a country, when however it isn't even recognised as a state by Israel. It can't even be considered a civil war either since the people of Gaza & the West Bank have no rights to any of Israel's public services or resources.
This is an occupation breh. Hamas is a resistance movement fighting an occupation. & why shouldn't I bring up the self-defence argument when that is one of Israel's main agendas? Israel claims it has the right to defend itself & yet wants to demilitarise Gaza and get rid of all tunnels & weapons. Please tell me how that logically makes sense? Israel's disproportionate use of violence is another topic all together, they're breaking human right treaty's & Genova war conventions from all angles. Hamas' rockets are glorified firecrackers & this combined with the Iron dome system just shows that Israel is under 0 threat.

3. Hamas isn't the conventional opposition but this just goes to show the lengths in which people will go to when pushed in such situations. Look to the blockade of food & the contamination of water in Gaza breh. These fuqs are using medieval castle sieging tactics where the enemy is starved of food & water & eventually flees. I think you're confused & don't know that Hamas is actually the Palestinian government.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Israel can't be doing shyt like continuing operations during a fukkin ceasefire and expect to be taken seriously, your point? You think the Viet Cong gave a fukk about the things you're spouting off about? This is an armed struggle, an anti colonial effort, after begrudgingly falling back all of these times do you honestly think that they got it on their minds to do it now when so much is at stake?

When deals are to be made over tea and biscuits, your behavior, good or bad, during the conflict will be taken into account...and if you really lack the ability to truly put up a fight that the other side will be forced to respect, then you're at the mercy of the stronger team in whatever ensuing deliberations.

I say that to say this, if you want favorable terms when this is over, you've gotta be smarter about how you do business.

Israel is in a fukked up position, if they use their full capacity and annihilate these people their goodwill is finished but the longer this goes the more people realize the Gazans are the victims and Hamas is merely a symptom of a greater sickness. If it isn't Hamas then it would still be an issue, these people don't want to surrender anymore it's a war.

There is a middle ground between HAMAS and no Gaza you know...

A two state solution is impossible if neither side wants that to begin with.

To me that's all rhetoric to prevent all out conflict. Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism can't reconcile those differences imo, Palestinians want Palestine back deep down and Zionists want to complete their quest to create Greater Israel.

But you'd get mad at me for saying its "might makes right" at the end of the day.

I'm not religious so you know how I feel about "claims" to this shyt.

You own what you can control ultimately...so if you want to tell me the two-state solution is bullshyt, then theres not much I can really say in terms of a weaker side being taken advantage of.

All this two state talk is bullshyt as far as I'm concerned. Only one neutral state using neither names or flags, administered by the UN until enough generations pass and more competent, united, non extremist leadership can be put in place can permanently fix this situation.

This sounds like an aimless and non-specific statement. I don't know what you're saying.

There won't be anything different from what we have. So if its not religious, its ethnic and theres no "non-exteremsts" in that role.

So yes it isn't cut and dry, I don't know what made you assume that I thought that.

For one, your assumptions that everyone was as ignorant about these events as you think they are.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

1. Breh, Hamas was democratically-elected by the Palestinian people in 2006 with an 80% majority vote. Please don't buy that propaganda BS about them being a rogue terrorist organisation. That's part of Israel's agenda to delay real negotiations and peace talks. Hamas is painted as a terrorist organisation in order to undermine their legitimacy.

Well if we take your assertions to their conclusion, we can say HAMAS isn't helping this situation.

And I'm not entirely convinced by your argument. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that HAMAS is not in step with the Palestinian "government"

2. This isn't really a war. A war would imply that Palestine is actually a country, when however it isn't even recognised as a state by Israel. It can't even be considered a civil war either since the people of Gaza & the West Bank have no rights to any of Israel's public services or resources.
This is an occupation breh. Hamas is a resistance movement fighting an occupation. & why shouldn't I bring up the self-defence argument when that is one of Israel's main agendas? Israel claims it has the right to defend itself & yet wants to demilitarise Gaza and get rid of all tunnels & weapons. Please tell me how that logically makes sense?

The argument isn't helped when Egypt sought to close those same tunnels down

Israel's disproportionate use of violence is another topic all together, they're breaking human right treaty's & Genova war conventions from all angles. Hamas' rockets are glorified firecrackers & this combined with the Iron dome system just shows that Israel is under 0 threat.

Now THIS I can't take entirely seriously.

This is like the whole "don't his a woman" thing

If you hit a man, some people won't hit back..but those that do won't leave you any room to pretend you didn't know what you were doing

3. Hamas isn't the conventional opposition but this just goes to show the lengths in which people will go to when pushed in such situations. Look to the blockade of food & the contamination of water in Gaza breh. These fuqs are using medieval castle sieging tactics where the enemy is starved of food & water & eventually flees. I think you're confused & don't know that Hamas is actually the Palestinian government.

I never said Gaza wasn't going THROUGH the dumps right now.

And I need more clarification on HAMAS and what their legitimacy is within the context of governance.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Hamas is a part of the unity govt, all Palestinian parties are moving as one for the most part.

wait what...is hamas part of the government or not? Theres too much contradiction here.

This is a war, not a fight against two individuals. Israel for the first time has taken real hits in terms of perception and diplomatic relations. The worse Israel makes this and the longer it goes on, the more Hamas wins. This is about dragging your opponent down to your level, the longer a great nation fights a weak nation the weaker that great nation becomes.

Again incorrect, Hamas is not a part of the Palestinian govt.That's what started this whole mess to begin with if you were paying attention.

Thats what I was saying but @bocabear tried to say otherwise. HAMAS is not allegedly the representative government.

Netanyahu was salty about Hamas joining the fray and quit negotiations(if thats what you wanna call it) but this conflict has only solidified ties between the various factions. Hamas is an armed resistance, no one has ever called an armed resistance and innocent group.

ok...?

 

[thekingsmen]

say something we DONT know already.

But when the governments of the surrounding arab nations are against HAMAS you know its not helping your case.

WTF are you talking about? Did I say I support Hamas. I don't but you quick to jump back on this "Hamas" tip after what I just said and since you acknowledge it, you accepted it and turned your head away from injustice and went on your own merry way. Clearly shows you like Israel's destruction of Palestinians because you have totally ignored history.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

When deals are to be made over tea and biscuits, your behavior, good or bad, during the conflict will be taken into account...and if you really lack the ability to truly put up a fight that the other side will be forced to respect, then you're at the mercy of the stronger team in whatever ensuing deliberations.

I say that to say this, if you want favorable terms when this is over, you've gotta be smarter about how you do business.



There is a middle ground between HAMAS and no Gaza you know...



But you'd get mad at me for saying its "might makes right" at the end of the day.

I'm not religious so you know how I feel about "claims" to this shyt.

You own what you can control ultimately...so if you want to tell me the two-state solution is bullshyt, then theres not much I can really say in terms of a weaker side being taken advantage of.

This sounds like an aimless and non-specific statement. I don't know what you're saying.

There won't be anything different from what we have. So if its not religious, its ethnic and theres no "non-exteremsts" in that role.


For one, your assumptions that everyone was as ignorant about these events as you think they are.

Pardon my not respecting your sterile position. I'm not saying your religious or whatever, but religion plays a huge role in all of this whether you're atheist or not so its not something you can just disregard when analyzing this issue.

As far as my "aimless and non-specific statement" I'll take that response as more of your douchebag, pretentious faggitry because you have no real critique regarding what I believe to be a longer lasting solution for both sides. You probably missed the part where I said the one neutral state would be UN administered so neither side could exercise power and influence of the other. That would be a HUGE difference actually.

I know you like thinking in realpolitik terms, but since this is a deeply religious conflict its not something that's just going to end unless one annihilates the other. The reason why I believe 2 states isn't viable is because that won't be enough for either sides Israel doesn't want to negotiate a 2 state solution because they're fulfilling prophecy and if you even took it back to the '48 borders it wouldn't be enough for the Palestinians until it as all Palestine again. I don't know about this middle ground between Hamas and Gaza that you're talking about so you should expand on that, but it doesn't matter how friendly Hamas or any Palestinian organization is because Israel wants them gradually wiped out either way. What point is there in negotiating with that? It's a never ending conflict.

 

[BocaRear]

Well if we take your assertions to their conclusion, we can say HAMAS isn't helping this situation.

And I'm not entirely convinced by your argument. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that HAMAS is not in step with the Palestinian "government"

The argument isn't helped when Egypt sought to close those same tunnels down

Now THIS I can't take entirely seriously.

This is like the whole "don't his a woman" thing

If you hit a man, some people won't hit back..but those that do won't leave you any room to pretend you didn't know what you were doing



I never said Gaza wasn't going THROUGH the dumps right now.

And I need more clarification on HAMAS and what their legitimacy is within the context of governance.

Palestinian politics is a whole lot of confusion, there were originally 2 political parties. Where Fatah would have the majority control (ie Yaser Arafat)however as of 2006, Hamas is now the majority party.

Hamas has links to the Muslim brotherhood which is why Sisi and Egypt do not fukk with Hamas, that's why they also want to close down the tunnels & get rid off Hamas.

However, we need to acknowledge the fact that Hamas IS democratically elected & therefore represents that Palestinian peoples wishes.

& in reference to your argument that they knew what they were doing, you need to think about proportionality & also the high percentage of civilian deaths due to the Gaza Strip being a densely populated area. Israel is launching air strikes on land with high civilian population & very little evidence of their being actual weapons cache.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

WTF are you talking about? Did I say I support Hamas.

I can't tell. One minute you're on Putin's nuts and the next you're supporting anti-western propaganda. I know where you stand.

Don't hide like you aren't some anti-Israel agent on here.

I'm an atheist and not even a zionist but I do acknowledge the legitimacy of power. Proven power.

I don't but you quick to jump back on this "Hamas" tip after what I just said and since you acknowledge it, you accepted it and turned your head away from injustice and went on your own merry way. Clearly shows you like Israel's destruction of Palestinians because you have totally ignored history.

Meanwhile you're supporting Russian invasions of ex-soviet states and shytting on those "civilians" too

We see you fam.

I hope those RT labeled cheques show up soon.

 

[thekingsmen]

1. Its well known that you don't believe anything in the mainstream so I can't take you seriously.

2. You're religious, so you have some other existential dog in this fight and so I don't take you seriously.

3. You nor I know who broke rank, but when you take members of the clearly more dominant side hostage, its not going to help your demands at the deal table.

1. WTF? This is from independent journalists, not MSM. Another fail.
2. No Im not a religious man but I know what White Supremacy, Neo-Colonalism, Apartheid, Genocide looks like.
3. Where are you getting this info from? cause obviously it's from MSM and then try to act like Im getting from MSM.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Pardon my not respecting your sterile position. I'm not saying your religious or whatever, but religion plays a huge role in all of this whether you're atheist or not so its not something you can just disregard when analyzing this issue.

So don't say ridiculous things like "well I hope non-extremiests in future generations come along"

Not gonna happen

Because if its not religious extremism, it'll be ethnic and thats not something anyone gets "moderate" about.

As far as my "aimless and non-specific statement" I'll take that response as more of your douchebag, pretentious faggitry because you have no real critique regarding what I believe to be a longer lasting solution for both sides. You probably missed the part where I said the one neutral state would be UN administered so neither side could exercise power and influence of the other. That would be a HUGE difference actually.

...and which you subsequently deep-sixed when you said this was equally unreadable because neither side wants it to work.

to which I replied: then it becomes essentially big bank take lil bank...

I know you like thinking in realpolitik terms,

I love it actually.

but since this is a deeply religious conflict its not something that's just going to end unless one annihilates the other.

I'm pretty sure I said this...

The reason why I believe 2 states isn't viable is because that won't be enough for either sides Israel doesn't want to negotiate a 2 state solution because they're fulfilling prophecy and if you even took it back to the '48 borders it wouldn't be enough for the Palestinians until it as all Palestine again.

and this is why I want a two state solution. Can't have it both ways. Doesn't matter if it'll work or not.

I don't know about this middle ground between Hamas and Gaza that you're talking about so you should expand on that, but it doesn't matter how friendly Hamas or any Palestinian organization is because Israel wants them gradually wiped out either way. What point is there in negotiating with that? It's a never ending conflict.

and yet you don't believe in a two state solution.

Make up your mind.

Cause Israel ain't losing wars anytime soon.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

wait what...is hamas part of the government or not? Theres too much contradiction here.



Thats what I was saying but @bocabear tried to say otherwise. HAMAS is not allegedly the representative government.



ok...?(bytch shyt right here)

Yes Napoleon, they have been integrated into the Palestinian govt that was a typo on my part. However this is a fairly recent development so the matters of security wasn't transferred from Hamas to the PA and so Hamas is still armed and all things haven't been ironed out but for all intents and purposes they are a part of the govt. Had Israel given it time, they wouldn't even have rockets to be worrying about. I would go more in depth but I'm sure in response you'll just talk some backhanded pretentious "looking over you" type shyt like a lil bytch so at this point I dunno if its a point to continue discussing with you tbh.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Palestinian politics is a whole lot of confusion, there were originally 2 political parties. Where Fatah would have the majority control (ie Yaser Arafat)however as of 2006, Hamas is now the majority party.

Hamas has links to the Muslim brotherhood which is why Sisi and Egypt do not fukk with Hamas, that's why they also want to close down the tunnels & get rid off Hamas.

However, we need to acknowledge the fact that Hamas IS democratically elected & therefore represents that Palestinian peoples wishes.

1. I understand and support the need to get rid of the muslim brotherhood.... but...

2. if HAMAS is who Palestine wants, then the workd will continue to treat them that way. The notion that "democracy" alone will insulate you completely from the influence of others, especially neighbors isn't as internally consistent as we like to pretend that it is.

& in reference to your argument that they knew what they were doing, you need to think about proportionality & also the high percentage of civilian deaths due to the Gaza Strip being a densely populated area. Israel is launching air strikes on land with high civilian population & very little evidence of their being actual weapons cache.

3. I completely understand this...but thats like saying you can't use guns against people with swords. I don't say this to say I support Israel however. But having shytty weapons doesn't make your case better. This is purely a nitpicking point.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yes Napoleon, they have been integrated into the Palestinian govt that was a typo on my part. However this is a fairly recent development so the matters of security wasn't transferred from Hamas to the PA and so Hamas is still armed and all things haven't been ironed out but for all intents and purposes they are a part of the govt. Had Israel given it time, they wouldn't even have rockets to be worrying about. I would go more in depth but I'm sure in response you'll just talk some backhanded pretentious "looking over you" type shyt like a lil bytch so at this point I dunno if its a point to continue discussing with you tbh.

Look my position is that just because you have a "democratically elected " blah blah blah doesn't mean the rest of the world is going to be cool with it.

"Democracy" has never stopped the rest of the world from caring who your leadership is.

If HAMAS is the people's choice, they gotta change their message to TRULY absolve themselves of any responsibility to actions that the international community could even use against them.

THEN will maybe Israel truly be taken to task for what its doing right now.

Basically, you gotta come across as a non-violent protestor.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

So don't say ridiculous things like "well I hope non-extremiests in future generations come along"

Not gonna happen

Because if its not religious extremism, it'll be ethnic and thats not something anyone gets "moderate" about.

...and which you subsequently deep-sixed when you said this was equally unreadable because neither side wants it to work.

to which I replied: then it becomes essentially big bank take lil bank...

I love it actually.

I'm pretty sure I said this...

and this is why I want a two state solution. Can't have it both ways. Doesn't matter if it'll work or not.



and yet you don't believe in a two state solution.

Make up your mind.

Cause Israel ain't losing wars anytime soon.

Yes, you say ridiculous things like if Black people just dikkrides America enough things will change for the better. I think everyone knows full well the type of idiot you are, if you have no means of figuring out the solution I'm suggesting that's not on me.

In fact, are you talking about "Make up your mind?" I'm pretty sure I made my position clear I'm not gonna repeat it again cuz your too stupid to understand it. lol, only thing Israel can lose is its goodwill in the world and as long as they run rampant in that land as they do that immunity will deteriorate.