How the Quran was formed. (Historical Breakdown)

[DoubleClutch]

There you go again - cannot answer a very simple question ive repeatedly asked you . . Which version of the bible/injeel are we to believe in?! Please answer for the love of god . . . If you really did research Islam and the Quran, you would know the reason for the final revelation is because of the desecration of the bible ie. the 5000 different versions which exist, the innovation of the holy diddy and worship of a man which even most of the different versions of the bible dont even advocate for . . . who knows what is true? .You even say your bible isnt reliable yourself You a legit clown

You've had enough opportunity to address this but have avoided it like the plague . . i think we can say case closed here

I pray you find god someday, and a go fund me for some health insurance

QUESTION: Why do you assume im “Christian” and proceed to tell me what I believe.

And what does this have to do with me having issues with what’s taught in ISLAM?

Do you actually believe in GOD or solely exist as the member of a movement whose entire identity is based on attacking Christianity?

Is your whole focus as a Muslim to disprove Christianity in order to justify the existence of the Islamic Quran and give it a purpose?

What teachings does the Quran/Muhammad offer Muslims that doesn’t require mentioning Jews or Christians?

What new revelations from GOD regarding ANYTHING does Muhammad bring to the earth that mankind DID NOT already have in a better form as seen through the prophets and Jesus (literally the WORD of God) sent hundreds of years prior to he (Muhammad) was even born?

You won’t answer these questions above.

You’re just a Parrot. You talk. But you don’t think.

But like I said, it’s not even about you.

I’ll just let you continue to embarrass yourself

 

[merklman]

QUESTION: Why do you assume im “Christian” and proceed to tell me what I believe.

And what does this have to do with me having issues with what’s taught in ISLAM?

Do you actually believe in GOD or solely exist as the member of a movement whose entire identity is based on attacking Christianity?

Is your whole focus as a Muslim to disprove Christianity in order to justify the existence of the Islamic Quran and give it a purpose?

What teachings does the Quran/Muhammad offer Muslims that doesn’t require mentioning Jews or Christians?

What new revelations from GOD regarding ANYTHING does Muhammad bring to the earth that mankind DID NOT already have in a better form as seen through the prophets and Jesus (literally the WORD of God) sent hundreds of years prior to he (Muhammad) was even born?

You won’t answer these questions above.

You’re just a Parrot. You talk. But you don’t think.

But like I said, it’s not even about you.

I’ll just let you continue to embarrass yourself

The irony of your post, why are you asking me anything when you have refused to answer any of my very basic questions?

Why are you even speaking after you confirmed what you believe in "the bible" isn't even a reliable source

My man, you are a retarded clown

Hope that go fund me gets going for you

 

[DoubleClutch]

My theory is the original Quran was a Christian document for Arabs (because it’s an Arabic translation/teaching) in remote eras where the gospel hadn’t been accepted yet

Traces of its teachings and original message are clear as you see in this video for anyone who can comprehend what the texts says

You can’t believe Jesus is “God” and not be a Christian.

“Islam” was a HISTORICAL anti-Jesus movement that evolved and coincided with the Arab nationalist, separatist and imperialist movement whose leaders (caliphs) challenged and sought to reject the mainstream Christian beliefs of the NON ARAB rival kingdoms they were at war with to justify attacking, killing and enslaving “non Muslims”. 100+ years after Muhammad’s death, these “Arabs” eventually began to teach a new theology which would worship Muhammad’s legend, erase the real Jesus while keeping many pagan Arab customs of their culture which would establish them as a “new” people with their own “religion” separate from those who practiced Judaism & Christianity

Imams have upheld this tradition and beliefs which is the narrative taught to Muslims today….. and NOT the true message hidden within the Quran.

 

[88m3]

My theory is the original Quran was a Christian document for Arabs (because it’s an Arabic translation/teaching) in remote eras where the gospel hadn’t been accepted yet

Traces of its teachings and original message are clear as you see in this video for anyone who can comprehend what the texts says

You can’t believe Jesus is “God” and not be a Christian.

“Islam” was a HISTORICAL anti-Jesus movement that evolved and coincided with the Arab nationalist and imperialist movement whose leaders (Imams) challenged and sought to reject the mainstream Christian beliefs of the rival kingdoms they were at war with to justify attacking, killing and enslaving “non Muslims”. They “Arabs” eventually began to a new theology which would worship Muhammad and keep many pagan Arab practices of their culture which would separate them from Judaism & Christianity 100+ years after Muhammad’s death

I haven't heard this before. That's really interesting. I mean it's painfully obvious that Koran was sourced from the Torah and Bible. The Koran was written centuries after the Bible so I can see how you would draw that conclusion.

There really was a lot of imperialism, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. I wonder why they felt it was required at the time? Prior to Islam they managed to co-exist. When do you feel Muhammad worship eclipsed Islam?

 

[DoubleClutch]

I haven't heard this before. That's really interesting. I mean it's painfully obvious that Koran was sourced from the Torah and Bible. The Koran was written centuries after the Bible so I can see how you would draw that conclusion.

There really was a lot of imperialism, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. I wonder why they felt it was required at the time? Prior to Islam they managed to co-exist. When do you feel Muhammad worship eclipsed Islam?

Arab paganism never co-existed with Jews and Christians in the region

“Islam” was a Trojan horse which allowed ancient Arab paganism/satanism to slowly become accepted and mainstream in the world under a new identity and label as an “Abrahamic” religion who “believes in Jesus”

It’s all a deception.

And who cares about Muhammed in Islam? He was only mentioned 4 times at the most in the Quran.

He’s more interesting in a historical sense. He probably identified as a “Christian” when he died.

 

[LuuqMaan]

He’s more interesting in a historical sense. He probably identified as a “Christian” when he died.

I just laughed so loud

Please tell me how you got that conclusion.

No need to post a video either.

 

[merklman]

I just laughed so loud

Please tell me how you got that conclusion.

No need to post a video either.

This retard wont say which version of the Bible he's quoting, and at the same time does acknowledge that the Bible is not a reliable source . .

Now him and that pedophile zionist @88m3 throwing conspiracy theories that Muslims "Mohammad worship".


There's plenty of Muslims on this site, let's ask how many of them "Mohammad worship " @FAH1223 do you?

 

[DoubleClutch]

I just laughed so loud

Please tell me how you got that conclusion.

No need to post a video either.

A few reasons

Islam formed out of an apocalyptic strand of messianic Judaism which was waiting for Jesus to return at any moment JUST LIKE CHRISTIANS at the time

Muhammad thought he was living in the “last days” and the world would end soon

He was known to have night prayers where he and his earliest followers stayed up all night praying hoping to bring upon the return of Jesus

Muhammad was a “Warner” and nothing more.

He was warning about the last days or “final hour” and judgement day so NON BELIEVERS would be saved

The original Quran was a text in Arabic translation which included teachings from the Torah and Injeel for pagan Arabs to convert (watch the video in the OP)

So what purpose is the INJEEL or Good news of Jesus here to Arabs unless the ones delivering the message are “Christians”

They could’ve just Gave the TORAH only and converted them to Judaism or the “religion of Moses”

Think about it, JEWS don’t even believe in Armageddon or “judgement day” (unless I’m mistaken @Koichos)

This is a new teaching of JESUS or prophecy which his followers believed would happen at any moment as Jesus reportedly said according to the Gospels

The Quran confirmed the prophecy’s of Jesus and revelations of Jesus followers like John and Paul regarding the “end times”

So gods word/revelation can’t be changed or erased right?

If Muhammad really wrote the Quran, the Quran teaches Jesus is the “word of God” and was a product of Gods spirit “coming down” to impregnate and give Mary a child.

So in metaphorical sense this would make some argue Jesus as being the “son of God”. NOT literally Jesus having sex with Mary like an idiot would think.

Because God wouldn’t need to engage in any type of act that’s against his nature (being a spirit), besides the fact that he can literally do anything to create he sees fit (like send his spirit) for us humans to understand.

Pagans believe People had sex with God to create

Judaism teaches God breathed into clay to create

When it comes to the miraculous birth of Jesus Quran and Christian beliefs favor the latter

In Islam Jesus or “ISA” is fatherless. (WHY) Which makes no sense if he’s to be seen as “only a prophet”

Jews believed Jesus to be a b*stard child of a Roman soldier.

So the QURAN follows Christian interpretation of who Jesus is.

He’s the “Son of God” in many levels if not just on the basis of his birth….. but you don’t wanna hear none of that nor would you understand it from a Muslim POV

But let’s get into why the Quran is a Christian text at its root.

LIKE CHRISTIANITY :

the Quran shows Jesus to born from a virgin birth.

The Quran shows Jesus to be son of God

The Quran shows Jesus having the ability to give life

The Quran shows Jesus as the final Judge

The Quran holds Mary in a high position with respect higher than any other woman.

The Quran shows we should believe in the foundation and superiority of the previous scriptures/prophets of Judaism and Jesus over all.

The Quran advocates for the belief in John the Baptist (why? He has no purpose other than being the precursor to Jesus as prophesied)

The Quran quote letters and teachings of PAUL

The Quran calls Jesus the Messiah (only Jewish Christians believed this)

AND I could continue with more but what’s the point when you’re most likely in denial.

Plus the obvious conclusion——- How could Muhammad be a Muslim or even believe in Islam when it was all created 100+ years after he died

The dominant religion of the time in that region was messianic Judasim/Christianity

Most people were a form of these religions or a some sort of mix or heretical form that derived from mainstream beliefs

Or they were full out pagans

So unless you believe Muhammad was originally a pagan and died that way I’m not seeing your objections to him being “Christian”

“ISLAM” was created as a Jew hating “anti Byzantine Christianity”/pro Arab movement after Muhammad died.

See all Islam does is fracture the picture Christians have built of Jesus over hundreds of years

The Quran gives a distorted view of Christianity still but labels itself as a “new religion”

Its on you to put the pieces together

Muslims read the Quran and see Muhammad because the text has been corrupted.
They rely on haddiths for clarification and believe in the imams and leaders who they’ve been indoctrinated and lied to by for over 1000 years to worship him and hate Jews and Christians

Rather than think for themselves and read
The Quran critically and objectively

Christians can read through the Quran and still get its primary message. They see it for what it was originally intended: Jesus

And now even historians are starting to agree with this.

 

[LuuqMaan]

How could Muhammad be a Muslim or even believe in Islam when it was all created 100+ years after he died

Muslims read the Quran and see Muhammad because the text has been corrupted.
They rely on haddiths for clarification

With all due respect, looking at your long post, it was nothing more than waffle. You didn’t bring up any religious text to back your claim and I suspect you only know Islam through the videos that you post.

The other points that quoted, I’ll simply quote you some verses from the Quran to show that the term Muslim was used by Mohammed (pbuh) and was even commanded to use that to describe him and his followers

Chapter 2: 64. Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah (Alone), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah . Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."

Chapter 2:102. O you who believe! Fear Allah (by doing all that He has ordered and by abstaining from all that He has forbidden) as He should be feared. [Obey Him, be thankful to Him, and remember Him always], and die not except in a state of Islam [as Muslims (with complete submission to Allah)].

Chapter 22: 78. And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive (with sincerity and with all your efforts that His Name should be superior). He has chosen you, and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship: it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham) (Islamic Monotheism). It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Qur'an),


Chapter 39 : 11. Say (O Muhammad): "Verily I am commanded to worship Allah (Alone) by obeying Him and doing religious deeds sincerely for His sake only. 12. "And I am commanded (this) in order that I may be the first of those who submit themselves to Allah (in Islam) as Muslims."

In my lifetime, I have never heard the theory of Mohammad is a Christian

 

[DoubleClutch]

With all due respect, looking at your long post, it was nothing more than waffle. You didn’t bring up any religious text to back your claim and I suspect you only know Islam through the videos that you post.

The other points that quoted, I’ll simply quote you some verses from the Quran to show that the term Muslim was used by Mohammed (pbuh) and was even commanded to use that to describe him and his followers



In my lifetime, I have never heard the theory of Mohammad is a Christian

They told me specifically to use my own words. I can post video to back up everything with Quran scriptures but they don’t want it

And I’m sure you don’t want to watch 2-3 hour videos

And back then the term “Muslim” when ever it evolved and was first used in the historical Quran….. it was in reference to BELIEVERS

I’m saying those BELIEVERS (those referenced in the Quran) were Jews and Christians

If we are going by YOUR definition it didn’t include Jews who DIDNT believe in JESUS obviously

Nor did these Jews accept Jesus as the messiah like so called “Muslims” did.

The term Muslim Just means people who submits to the 1 GOD

This included JEWS back then. That’s why the Quran mentions THE TORAH

THE QURAN ALSO CONFIRMS THE INJEEL

And it doesn’t mention any SPECIFIC writing of JESUS in particular as being CORRECT OR INCORRECT

SO “MUSLIM” APPLIES TO ALL SECTS OF CHRISTIANITY just as QURAN seems to accept ALL “BOOKS” that contain stories about Jesus seeing how it borrows from Gnostic and known forgeries and false gospels

The issue at question was who from the believers was following the scriptures right.

ARABS thought they were superior obviously

Only later did ISLAM and ARABS gain their own identity enough for it to be solidified as a DIFFERENT religion than Christianity and MUSLIM means some SEPARATE group of people who were ANTI CHRISTIANITY 100% or seen as heritics at the least.

This coincides with Arab empires gaining power waging wars and forcing conversion through conquest and slavery

Their leaders created Islam and “Muslims” as we know it today and they’ve steadily corrupted the scriptures through their interpretations and teachings

This is all clear if you know history. But you won’t believe anything unless “God says it” but you let man dictate what “God” wrote or what it means so you’ll forever be a sheep…… or donkey better yet.

Don’t take my word for it. If you believe the Quran HAS the word of God read it.

If you believe Jesus IS the word of God read the INJEEL

after that take what learned from both texts and apply it in context with history and what secular scholars say.

there’s more than enough video in this thread for you to look at as proof

It’s on you unfortunately

You need to change your perspective or mindset and become open minded

Other wise it doesn’t matter what I post.

 

[merklman]

If you believe Jesus IS the word of God read the INJEEL

Kindly point me towards which version

Then explain why I should disregard the other 500 versions

Why are you running from this question, at the 6th time of asking.g

 

[DoubleClutch]

Kindly point me towards which version

Then explain why I should disregard the other 500 versions

Why are you running from this question, at the 6th time of asking.g

Your questions don’t apply to me.

1. I’m not a Muslim I don’t believe the Quran to be the indisputable word of God verbatim (in book form) and don’t even need to according to the Quran (I have my “books” in a language I understand)
2. I’m not an Arab nor do I live in the 7th century Arabia/levant region so the book wasn’t written for me and it isn’t for my people (Gods plan I guess)

That’s a problem YOU need to hash out as a believer in what’s written in the Quran and Haddiths because

1. You are an Arab or a willingly convert slave to Allah (Your Muslims leaders) so you depend on the Arab book/religion and their guidance because they tell you what to believe and how to interpret scripture in a language you don’t understand

2. Your leaders left you an incomplete book with an incompetent prophet and distant God. No wonder you have so many questions you can’t answer. You made your bed and now you must sleep in it.

3. Your own book doesn’t specify which INJEEL it refers to so you must read them all and use your own judgement whats “corrupted” or true.

So you have an Islamic dilemma, breh?

My solution for you?

1. You can easily become Cristian and read the Gospels and ask your Father to reveal his word to you via the “holy spirit” Jesus said he would send.

2. You could take the logical/secular route and use common sense to decide which Gospel teachings are historically most reliable based on the ancient Middle East scholars, archeologists, historians, who gather evidence and the accounts of eye witnesses of the time

but that’s all assuming you agree that the INJEEL mentioned in the Quran is actually a physical book that existed on earth during the life of Muhammad according to the Quran which means it would’ve had to be written down at some point.

If you DO NOT believe any of the above bolded text, I have another set of answers for you

 

[88m3]

I wonder if he was a good Christian

 

[merklman]

Your questions don’t apply to me.

1. I’m not a Muslim I don’t believe the Quran to be the indisputable word of God verbatim (in book form) and don’t even need to according to the Quran (I have my “books” in a language I understand)
2. I’m not an Arab nor do I live in the 7th century Arabia/levant region so the book wasn’t written for me and it isn’t for my people (Gods plan I guess)

That’s a problem YOU need to hash out as a believer in what’s written in the Quran and Haddiths because

1. You are an Arab or a willingly convert slave to Allah (Your Muslims leaders) so you depend on the Arab book/religion and their guidance because they tell you what to believe and how to interpret scripture in a language you don’t understand

2. Your leaders left you an incomplete book with an incompetent prophet and distant God. No wonder you have so many questions you can’t answer. You made your bed and now you must sleep in it.

3. Your own book doesn’t specify which INJEEL it refers to so you must read them all and use your own judgement whats “corrupted” or true.

So you have an Islamic dilemma, breh?

My solution for you?

1. You can easily become Cristian and read the Gospels and ask your Father to reveal his word to you via the “holy spirit” Jesus said he would send.

2. You could take the logical/secular route and use common sense to decide which Gospel teachings are historically most reliable based on the ancient Middle East scholars, archeologists, historians, who gather evidence and the accounts of eye witnesses of the time

but that’s all assuming you agree that the INJEEL mentioned in the Quran is actually a physical book that existed on earth during the life of Muhammad according to the Quran which means it would’ve had to be written down at some point.

If you DO NOT believe any of the above bolded text, I have another set of answers for you

There you go - as expected you couldn't answer a very simple question

Thanks for saying that in the first sentence, saves me from the paragraphs of your psycho waffle

How's that go fund me coming along to get you health insurance breh? You still hearing voices

 

[DoubleClutch]

There you go - as expected you couldn't answer a very simple question

Thanks for saying that in the first sentence, saves me from the paragraphs of your psycho waffle

How's that go fund me coming along to get you health insurance breh? You still hearing voices

You lost breh

Just give up. Stop replying

Like I said, it’s not for you. Whoever reads it can take from it what they will.

I’m just surprised mods didn’t close the thread yet