How great was W E. B dubois

[AlainLocke]

Yelling "do for self", holding your head up high waiting for that pat on the head

nikkas love using Asians as an example of prosperity, without the historical context of their position, like they aren't elitists as fukk towards their own and each other.

and then a chunk of em still end up living with whites, and not another Kwan/Patel in sight

The funny shyt is...

Booker T. Washington was so influential with Whites...that they used his Atlanta Compromise as the basis of Separate But Equal in Plessy v. Ferguson...

And then White people still went around burning shyt down and lynching and slaughtering Black people....

But in 2018.. the do for self and Hoteps are looking at Booker T. Washington as a hero...

Booker T. Washington is Barack Obama...

 

[invalid]

Why would I want people who gave my people syphilis under the guise of medical care,

It was a black doctor that oversaw the Tuskegee experiment.

 

[invalid]

But in 2018.. the do for self and Hoteps are looking at Booker T. Washington as a hero...

Booker T. Washington is Barack Obama...

Serious question because I don't know. What are the politics of most militants? Which way do they typically vote?

Booker T. Washington's ideas are looked at as a foundation for modern black conservatism. I know a couple of prominent black republicans that have based most of their political ideology on Booker T.

One in particularl is Lee H. Walker whose head of the black republicans in Chicago.

Who We Are - Lee Walker | Heartland Institute

He had given me a copy of his book Rediscovering Black Conservatism. He make some solid points.



I think at the end of the day both Dubois and Washington made some valid points. Politically, I'm very moderate, so I can see both valid and invalid points on both sides.

I bring Lee Walker up because of the bolded. Lee Walker voted for Barack solely on black solidarity reasons (he's very involved in the black community and not a "Ben Carson" type of black republican) but he quietly disagreed ideologically on most of all Obama's policies especially on education because he felt his policies did nothing to address educational disparities and did nothing in emboldening the black community to make education a priority. I don't think the bolded is as black and white.

Also, I never interpreted Washington's ideology to be a "gaining" of accpetance from whites by a pull ourselves up by the bootstraps message. I've always interpreted Booker T's message to be in direct response to Dubois "integration at all cost" ideology. What I understood his message to be was, what is the purpose of integration when we have no economic or political clout. Let us stay separate, build up our economic and poltical base, and then worry about integration. He thought Dubois was putting the cart before the horse. Looking at the economic and political plight of the AA community today, where we are still struggling for equity, it's hard to say that the Dubois approach was correct.

 

[Uncle Hotep]

Serious question because I don't know. What are the politics of most militants? Which way do they typically vote?

Booker T. Washington's ideas are looked at as a foundation for modern black conservatism. I know a couple of prominent black republicans that have based most of their political ideology on Booker T.

One in particularl is Lee H. Walker whose head of the black republicans in Chicago.

Who We Are - Lee Walker | Heartland Institute

He had given me a copy of his book Rediscovering Black Conservatism. He make some solid points.



I think at the end of the day both Dubois and Washington made some valid points. Politically, I'm very moderate, so I can see both valid and invalid points on both sides.

I bring Lee Walker up because of the bolded. Lee Walker voted for Barack solely on black solidarity reasons (he's very involved in the black community and not a "Ben Carson" type of black republican) but he quietly disagreed ideologically on most of all Obama's policies especially on education because he felt his policies did nothing to address educational disparities and did nothing in emboldening the black community to make education a priority. I don't think the bolded is as black and white.

Also, I never interpreted Washington's ideology to be a "gaining" of accpetance from whites by a pull ourselves up by the bootstraps message. I've always interpreted Booker T's message to be in direct response to Dubois "integration at all cost" ideology. What I understood his message to be was, what is the purpose of integration when we have no economic or political clout. Let us stay separate, build up our economic and poltical base, and then worry about integration. He thought Dubois was putting the cart before the horse. Looking at the economic and political plight of the AA community today, where we are still struggling for equity, it's hard to say that the Dubois approach was correct.

 

[Uncle Hotep]

I gotta say Washington because we're still marching, still "fighting for our rights" and still being taken advantage of by our "leaders"

It's being spun like Booker T. Was saying we need to work hard to be acceptable to whites and I don't see it like that, his plan is basically our version of how koreans in the 80s, Indians in the 90s, and arabs after them came to the country, put their heads down. Took jobs that weren't so glamorous, used that money to buy small low quality stores, worked them themselves with crazy hours, networked with their kind to buy in bulk to get cheaper prices and, ultimately send their kids to college with an understanding of business, money, and the world.

So now the dude who used to sell you loose Phillies in 94 and you used to laugh at and mess up his store, 20 years later has a doctor for a daughter, and an engineer for a son. And they have that degree with little to no debt.

It's all about sacrifice and that's what we lack. If black people are to prosper, it's going to have to take a lot of self sacrifice, then your kids do better, then by the time your grandchildren come along you've comfortably elevated your place on the hierarchy.

We want what we want now, damn the kids. And that's why "intellectuals" have always been popular with blacks. they'll tell us what the government owes us and we need to get it. it sounds good and gets you all fired up and the only thing it costs is your time. then the next thing you know 50 or 60 years have passed and you've made incremental progress at best.

Meanwhile the other voice is telling you work hard, save money, and invest in the future and that doesn't sound anywhere near as sexy.

 

[invalid]

I think when assessing Booker T's ideology, we have to look at the totality of his speeches and not just zero in on the Atlanta compromise. He had an agenda with that speech, which was to secure funding for his school. So, in thinking about who is audience was, southern elites, one can understand the language he used that I feel was a smokescreen to his real motives which one can find that he revealed in his later speeches.

“The wisest among my race understand that the agitation of questions of social equality is the extremist folly, and that progress in the enjoyment of all the privileges that will come to us must be the result of severe and constant struggle rather than of artificial forcing. No race that has anything to contribute to the markets of the world is long in any degree ostracized. It is important and right that all privileges of the law be ours, but it is vastly more important that we be prepared for the exercise of these privileges.” Booker T. Washington- Cotton States and International Exposition Speech September 18, 1895

Too many leaders have devoted themselves to politics little knowing, it seems, that economic independence is the foundation of political independence...we must act in these matters before others from foreign lands rob us of our birthright... Land ownership is the foundation of all wealth. Booker T. Washington- National Negro Business League in Chicago, August 12, 1912

^^^^Doesn't sound like someone that wants black people to be content in working on white land and for white businesses^^^^

“Our great Creator has ordained that races and nations shall prosper in proportion as they find, develop and use the natural resources of the earth in promoting wealth, intelligence, happiness and justice….But to do these things we cannot start at the top, but must begin at the bottom. I call upon the men and women from our colleges and universities to lead the way in these fundamental directions.” Booker T. Washington- National Negro Business League in Chicago, August 12, 1912

To fairly critique Washington, we must look at the totality of his work and not start and stop at the Atlanta Compromise.

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

@Bittasweet

Booker T. Washington Delivers the 1895 Atlanta Compromise Speech


To those of the white race who look to the incoming of those of foreign birth and strange tongue and habits for the prosperity of the South, were I permitted I would repeat what I say to my own race,“Cast down your bucket where you are.” Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides. Cast down your bucket among these people who have, without strikes and labour wars, tilled your fields, cleared your forests, builded your railroads and cities, and brought forth treasures from the bowels of the earth, and helped make possible this magnificent representation of the progress of the South. Casting down your bucket among my people, helping and encouraging them as you are doing on these grounds, and to education of head, hand, and heart, you will find that they will buy your surplus land, make blossom the waste places in your fields, and run your factories. While doing this, you can be sure in the future, as in the past, that you and your families will be surrounded by the most patient, faithful, law-abiding, and unresentful people that the world has seen. As we have proved our loyalty to you in the past, in nursing your children, watching by the sick-bed of your mothers and fathers, and often following them with tear-dimmed eyes to their graves, so in the future, in our humble way, we shall stand by you with a devotion that no foreigner can approach, ready to lay down our lives, if need be, in defense of yours, interlacing our industrial, commercial, civil, and religious life with yours in a way that shall make the interests of both races one. In all things that are purely social we can be as separate as the fingers, yet one as the hand in all things essential to mutual progress.

- Booker T. Washington....
Like I said...stop it.....

What exactly is negative about this? it's inline with his goal of economic independence. The last sentence alone clearly shows he's about separation and knew that his audience was about that too

You think if he was talmbowt integration to that audience he would've been able to secure the bag that helped to hire George Washington Carver to teach cutting edge technology and do research at the school? of course not

 

[invalid]

You think if he was talmbowt integration to that audience he would've been able to secure the bag that helped to hire George Washington Carver to teach cutting edge technology and do research at the school? of course not

Yep. Which group should have been most on the hook for funding the education of black kids? The same ones that denied their families education in the first place.

Southerners.

And how do you get Southeners to fund black education during the years of Jim Crow?

You whisper sweet nothings in their ear while not revealing your true hand which was....

Too many leaders have devoted themselves to politics little knowing, it seems, that economic independence is the foundation of political independence...we must act in these matters before others from foreign lands rob us of our birthright... Land ownership is the foundation of all wealth. Booker T. Washington- National Negro Business League in Chicago, August 12, 1912

Southerners salivated over ithe smoke screens and came out the pocket.

 

[AlainLocke]

What exactly is negative about this? it's inline with his goal of economic independence. The last sentence alone clearly shows he's about separation and knew that his audience was about that too

You think if he was talmbowt integration to that audience he would've been able to secure the bag that helped to hire George Washington Carver to teach cutting edge technology and do research at the school? of course not

How are you gonna have economic independence when your schools are funded by racist Southerners...

You work for racist Southerners...

And you can't vote, you can't be lawmakers, you can't be mayors, you can't be judges..

That was the Atlanta Compromise...

Yall really think it was some do for self shyt...not it wasn't. It was admitting defeat and agreeing to Southern White rule.

So when Booker T. Washington made that argument, the Supreme Court passed Separate but Equal...

And White people rioted and burned down Black areas and etc and etc...and nobody got involved to stop it for decades.

 

[AlainLocke]

I bring Lee Walker up because of the bolded. Lee Walker voted for Barack solely on black solidarity reasons (he's very involved in the black community and not a "Ben Carson" type of black republican) but he quietly disagreed ideologically on most of all Obama's policies especially on education because he felt his policies did nothing to address educational disparities and did nothing in emboldening the black community to make education a priority. I don't think the bolded is as black and white.

Also, I never interpreted Washington's ideology to be a "gaining" of accpetance from whites by a pull ourselves up by the bootstraps message. I've always interpreted Booker T's message to be in direct response to Dubois "integration at all cost" ideology. What I understood his message to be was, what is the purpose of integration when we have no economic or political clout. Let us stay separate, build up our economic and poltical base, and then worry about integration. He thought Dubois was putting the cart before the horse. Looking at the economic and political plight of the AA community today, where we are still struggling for equity, it's hard to say that the Dubois approach was correct.

I don't think Black people are incapable understanding segregation...

Segregation didn't mean...you was away from White people....

It meant...

White people can come fukk you up and you can't do shyt about it and the government ain't gonna do shyt about it...

That's what segregation meant...

Segregation meant...

White schools get tax dollars...but your school don't...

Segregation meant...

White people get welfare...but you don't...

Segregation meant

White people get the GI Bill but you don't...


Integration is not about being around White people...

You can't have economics without laws...

Black people wasn't protected by the law...which is why White people could literally come and take your land and you just had to leave...

Which is why after Separation But Equal was passed... White people rioted and burned down shyt...

Yall really don't understand the negative impact of Booker T. Washington. How he was detrimental to Black life....

The reason why White people were upset was during Reconstruction...

We had Black judges, Black mayors, Black voters and etc...and Black people were advancing in ways White people didn't like...

So White Southerners pushed back and reversed the progress of Reconstruction...

Then here comes Booker T. Washington and was like..."We'll accept this if you just fund our schools so we can get trades and we can come work for you..."

White people were fine with that...cause they don't care if you are educated and have jobs and shyt. Slaves had skills before. Slaves were educated. Slaves weren't dumb and mindless. They knew how to build ships. Repair shyt. Use tools...

Then Marcus Garvey was like..."Well fukk it we'll just leave and colonize and Africa..."

And White people were like..."Hey...we'll help you do that. We are White, we know how to colonize..."

And WEB Dubois said "fukk that...we'll get what we deserve. We want everything..."

And White people were like..."No..."

 

[xoxodede]

Both were great in their own right. I thank and highly respect both.

My education is a product of the AUC - thanks to Dubois.

"The Brownie' Book" by Dubois was the first magazine/book given to me by my Great Granddad. They were everything.

View Issue Here: The Brownies' book.

Dubois put together this collection as well.
African American Photographs Assembled for 1900 Paris Exposition

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

Yep. Which group should have been most on the hook for funding the education of black kids? The same ones that denied their families education in the first place.
Southerners.
And how do you get Southeners to fund black education during the years of Jim Crow?
You whisper sweet nothings in their ear while not revealing your true hand which was....
Southerners salivated over ithe smoke screens and came out the pocket.

Exactly. Chess not checkers

How are you gonna have economic independence when your schools are funded by racist Southerners...
You work for racist Southerners...
And you can't vote, you can't be lawmakers, you can't be mayors, you can't be judges..
That was the Atlanta Compromise...
Yall really think it was some do for self shyt...not it wasn't. It was admitting defeat and agreeing to Southern White rule.
So when Booker T. Washington made that argument, the Supreme Court passed Separate but Equal...
And White people rioted and burned down Black areas and etc and etc...and nobody got involved to stop it for decades.

All facts. I don't want you to think that I view the Atlanta compromise as void of flaws. It certainly included very disheartening things like agreeing to tolerate discrimination. But like Dubois talented tenth, with its elitism and favoring of classical education at it's core, without proper context to their actions, we could make platinum threads bashing both these men

Would it had been ideal to have Booker T in the south finessing those cacs for money and Dubois in the north doing the same to the liberal cacs, then they combined their resources and encouraged the classical and industrial educated Blackmen to work on a common goals, hell yes. But that didn't have, so they worked separately at a common goal that would benefit Black folks

Both these men have contributed greatly to Black liberation, it has to be mandatory to give them props and show appreciation for their efforts, while holding them accountable

 

[Flywin Lannister]

lol ya'll dont know this?

No.

We want a million things.. BUT.. the idea and running the NAACP was Jewish dudes!?

That's nuts breh

 

[Cel 510 kid ados forever]

Dubois would probably own a network today

 

[invalid]

Dubois would probably own a network today

A few similarities to Cosby, athough, I fear that just like him, black people would have turned on Dubois for talking respectability politics. The current generation of black Americans have an inability of taking criticism when it comes from our own.