How effed up is it that almost the most important decision in life is made at age 17?

[Liquid]

Meh, I consider myself lucky because I was raised well always knew that I wanted to get into Finance or Accounting since I was in grade 11. You're being unrealistic though. The average 17 year old is a kid that still is worrying about impressing bytches, wearing fly gear, saving for a car, attending the next party etc etc.

I aint complaining because I'm in a great position and I have interned in case that comment was directed towards me. (not in financial services though not accounting). Still I feel that the system is kinda rigged.

I dont know how it is in the states...but at least in Canada, valuable, stimulating internships are not that easy to obtain. There are many people in university so the competition is fierce and the demand isnt. Additionally if you go into a specific program you cant switch or your gonna have to start over pretty much from the beginning and spend another 10 or so Gs. And this is Canada, I aint even talking about the USA with your out of state costs.

Going by Toronto's Rotman School of COmmerce for instance:
2012-2013 Calendar -

In the first year you dont sample or explore shyt. You dont even take business classes but instead take:

An intro to management course
A few calculus and stats courses
Economics class
And an elective or some shi t
(This is very similar to my school, McMaster as well actually )

That is already about $10K right there. On top of that there is no education that is applicable to the actually work environment at that point so nobody is hiring you for an internship unless youre the child of an exec/vp. What hospital is really hiring a freshman? Best you can do at that point is volunteer work at a nursery.

Now in the second year theres a couple Finance, Accounting, Marketing courses which allow somebody to determine what they might wanna specialize in. Also some Economics sprinkled in as well.

Now if at this point you figure...man I aint tryna fukk with none of this business stuff (or lets say you chose Life Sciences and decide bio, chemistry etc are just not the road you wanna go down) thats $20K down the drain because the "sample classes" as you put it were not enough to notify the student he isnt interested in the field like that. On top of that, a bunch of courses arent really transferable to another field of expertise unless youre a humanities or liberal arts student. Are we really trying to compare grade 12 chemistry to Organic Chemistry? Grade 12 physics to the shyt engineers deal with?

Two years gone and youre stuck in the middle.

"I already began, I might as well just finish." You finish, and you dont wanna let that degree go to waste and work a shyt job that pays nothing so you continue working in that field and end up miserable. God forbid you have student loans on top of that and cant find a job then have to accept some random call centre job to pay your loans back. Can you honestly tell me that as a 17 year old you knew all about annuities and compounded interest? The time value of money? Maybe you did but not everyone will.

Or "Let me just quit while I'm ahead"...still lost $20,000 and two years of your life

I think this is where you and I see eye to eye and @BarNone seems to have a bit of an unrealistic expectation out of the average 17 year old kid.

I hear you about being considered an adult @ 18 barnone, but the label in this country to view someone at 18 as a full fledged adult is a bit of a misnomer. You are not even trusted to handle your alcohol well enough to warrant full purchasing power on your own, yet you expect a 17 year old kid to be responsible enough to make a decision that will potentially shape the rest of their life? Let's look at it from the average statistic as far as student loans are concerned (near 27K this year)...how comfortable will most people be giving a 17-18 year old kid nearly 30K and tell them to spend it wisely? Not many and you can't argue that its different because that is essentially what you are telling them to do when it comes to weighing how a degree they might be pursuing is worth in the future.

 

[Po pimp]

It was either that or University of Chicago considering your repping. Illinois is a great university too...plus they had a good basketball squad (the kinda shyt that intrigues a teenager). Once sure if you were about that top 10 global university life though (no offense)

I cant lie, one of the reasons i wanna do my MBA in the states is for NCAA related purposes

Yeah, I knew I wasn't going to school out of state, but I definitely didn't want to stay in Chicago for college. Plus when you couple in the school's reputation, it was a no brainer. I didn't really follow them in sports when I made my decision, but freshman year, we were ok, (lost to Arizona in the Elite Eight). We went to the National Championship (losing to UNC) the year after I graduated.

 

[No1]

I think this is where you and I see eye to eye and @BarNone seems to have a bit of an unrealistic expectation out of the average 17 year old kid.

I hear you about being considered an adult @ 18 barnone, but the label in this country to view someone as 18 as a full fledged adult is a bit of a misnomer. You are not even trusted to handle your alcohol well enough to warrant full purchasing power on your own, yet you expect a 17 year old kid to be responsible enough to make a decision that will potentially shape the rest of their life? Let's look at it from the average statistic as far as student loans are concerned (near 27K this year)...how comfortable will most people be giving a 17-18 year old kid nearly 30K and tell them to spend it wisely? Not many and you can't argue that its different because that is essentially what you are telling them to do when it comes to weighing how a degree they might be pursuing is worth in the future.

That's a great point. I guess my point is, I don't think it's unfair, I don't see anything wrong with the age. It is the lack of information that is the problem. It's not the "being 17" it's being 17 and uninformed and most 17 year olds are uninformed. I think we're exculpating them from a lot of the blame. The blame can be split thrice --colleges, high school administrations, the students and their families. Now you have to decide who should shoulder most of that blame. In a society where high school kids can figure out how to do whatever else they want to do online, I don't buy placing most of it on high school administrations.

Colleges get a lot for a lack of transparency about career prospects and ridiculous costs. Students get the blame because they all go online and get their android phones "rooted" or "jailbroken" and that's no more complicated goggling information about colleges. Which brings me back to my initial point, society has made students lazy. From pre-K to senior year, guidance counselors and teachers hold their hands and guide them through everything and then suddenly at 17/18 you're now expected to know how to research on your own. But I wasn't even all that upset at what you and @Nudie were saying, it was more the guys who were complaining about not having experience, that's on them. Students are entitled.

 

[DaChampIsHere]

But a lot of you come across as whining and unprepared for life like he said. No one is telling you to know exactly what you want to do at graduation.
Your critiques are not about college, and there are certainly legitimate ones (costs). You're critiques are about your own lack of preparedness and that may be an indictment on your guidance counselors and college counselors, but not the entire college system. I knew 10x as much as my guidance counselor because I wanted to know what I was getting into. I don't regret anything about college.
The idea that being pressured to go to college is a bad thing when the alternative is the pressures from all the negatives around you is a ridiculous talking point. If you have the willpower to get out of that, then you better have the willpower to research where you're going and what you're getting into. In short, this thread is a symptom of our generation, you're lazy. I'm sorry.

I agree with the whole post, but especially this.

Better believe if you're about to invest +4 years of your life, you should know what you're getting in to. Your time is more important than a loan lost anyway.

I had fun in high school, I chased after girls, partied, kicked it with the fellas, probably all a lil too much, , but I also knew what I wanted to do. In fact when I found a college I wanted to go to, I was damn near obsessive over it and I wanted to know everything about everything, so I looked up things myself.

There's a message board, wikipedia page, news article, etc. about everything you can imagine. We live in the information age. There's no reason you can't get the information you want, but you actually have to want it.

 

[No1]

As I recall it was around this time that I started working on my college applications senior year, so to all the high school brehs on here, I'd read through this argument

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

I'm 22 and still don't know what the fukk I want to do in life, never understood how straight outta highschool folks did.. Almost finished with an Accounting degree though

 

[Ohene]

I'm 22 and still don't know what the fukk I want to do in life, never understood how straight outta highschool folks did.. Almost finished with an Accounting degree though

Almost? What happened?

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Almost? What happened?

I mean I'm in the process of completing it, I have 4 classes left but I'm not sure it's what I want to do ultimately. I can stack some nice cash with it tho.

 

[Liquid]

That's a great point. I guess my point is, I don't think it's unfair, I don't see anything wrong with the age. It is the lack of information that is the problem. It's not the "being 17" it's being 17 and uninformed and most 17 year olds are uninformed. I think we're exculpating them from a lot of the blame. The blame can be split thrice --colleges, high school administrations, the students and their families. Now you have to decide who should shoulder most of that blame. In a society where high school kids can figure out how to do whatever else they want to do online, I don't buy placing most of it on high school administrations.

Colleges get a lot for a lack of transparency about career prospects and ridiculous costs. Students get the blame because they all go online and get their android phones "rooted" or "jailbroken" and that's no more complicated goggling information about colleges. Which brings me back to my initial point, society has made students lazy. From pre-K to senior year, guidance counselors and teachers hold their hands and guide them through everything and then suddenly at 17/18 you're now expected to know how to research on your own. But I wasn't even all that upset at what you and @Nudie were saying, it was more the guys who were complaining about not having experience, that's on them. Students are entitled.

I can't remember any point in history in where so many big life decisions are thrown at you right out of high school. At 17-18 most are still figuring out life and what they want to do.

I look at college education in this country like I view everything else. I remember the argument used to be that many can't afford college so they just threw money at it to give everyone the opportunity. I think that was the wrong approach overall, there should be an entrance exam to college evaluating if you really know what you are getting yourself into. Maybe charge $100 a head for some intro to college course that last a couple of weeks teaching people all the ropes financially, what is it that they are ultimately trying to do with a future career, etc.

 

[No1]

I can't remember any point in history in where so many big life decisions are thrown at you right out of high school. At 17-18 most are still figuring out life and what they want to do.

I look at college education in this country like I view everything else. I remember the argument used to be that many can't afford college so they just threw money at it to give everyone the opportunity. I think that was the wrong approach overall, there should be an entrance exam to college evaluating if you really know what you are getting yourself into. Maybe charge $100 a head for some intro to college course that last a couple of weeks teaching people all the ropes financially, what is it that they are ultimately trying to do with a future career, etc.

Breh, at other points in history at 17-18 you were the head of the household or you were out of the house starting your own family. I really think you're babying people. You're focusing more on their age than on why they are immature at that age. I think I covered that pretty well.

The difference between you and I, is that your argument starts with the basic assumption that 17 to 18 year olds are inherently incapable of being adequately informed and recognizing what college is. No, there state is a condition of the things I listed in my prior post. We don't need to go to any of the lengths that you're recommending. Students all over the world do it, and American students can do it too. We just need to fix the areas I mentioned above. We can start by having a basic "finance for the citizen" course in high school.

 

[FreshFromATL]

I kinda disagree with this thread's sentiment. While I do think that there are important decisions to be made around that age, I think the most important decisions in life are made around the ages of 25-29 because that's when shyt starts to get critical. Many people have made bad decisions around the ages of 17 and 18 in-regards to schooling, money, who they chose to date/ befriend, etc., however those decisions can be and have been corrected (by many) with wisdom gained through the process of living life and maturing (unless you just totally fukk up your life at 17-18 (i.e. go to prison for murder, have about two-three kids recklessly, etc.)).

Long story short, as long as you haven't screwed-up to the point of no return, you can most-likely correct any mistake but once you start inching closer to 30, patterns in life start to set in stone. And also, I just don't buy into the notion of (man I chose the wrong school/got in debt/picked the wrong major) when I was 17/18 so that's my excuse of why my life is so shytty. I've seen too many people correct shyt in their late twenties (and even later) and go on to win at life.

 

[Liquid]

Breh, at other points in history at 17-18 you were the head of the household or you were out of the house starting your own family. I really think you're babying people. You're focusing more on their age than on why they are immature at that age. I think I covered that pretty well.

The difference between you and I, is that your argument starts with the basic assumption that 17 to 18 year olds are inherently incapable of being adequately informed and recognizing what college is. No, there state is a condition of the things I listed in my prior post. We don't need to go to any of the lengths that you're recommending. Students all over the world do it, and American students can do it too. We just need to fix the areas I mentioned above. We can start by having a basic "finance for the citizen" course in high school.

Fair enough, but I think what you are asking for is a fundamental change in how everything in this country works. I am also not convinced that getting everyone to go to college with the way the system is set-up is benefiting an overwhelming majority anymore. Given how long everything takes to put in place in this country I suppose maybe in 20 years we can get to a point in where kids are educated a little better about what they are looking at down the line.

I think a 1-2 year break after high school will help some, but also leaves the chance of that individual not ever going to college.

 

[FreshFromATL]

My brother is that age and doesn't know what he wants to do yet. I'm still not worried about him, because he's good in terms of having familial support and all that. I am looking forward to encouraging and helping him in whatever he wants to do though.

IMO its just as bad as parents who take the simple approach and trying to force yourself into a program you don't even like or aren't suited for just 'cause of how lucrative it is. Might as well not go.

This is the most important thing, imo. If a kid honestly doesn't know what they want to do, no reason to go and force them into a shyt-hole. I'd probably tell my kid to go out and work, experience life a little, and most of all, don't make any decisions that will destroy his flexibility to pursue his dreams when he finally figures out what he's good at/enjoy doing. No reason to force a kid into a decision they're obviously not ready to make.

 

[No1]

Fair enough, but I think what you are asking for is a fundamental change in how everything in this country works. I am also not convinced that getting everyone to go to college with the way the system is set-up is benefiting an overwhelming majority anymore. Given how long everything takes to put in place in this country I suppose maybe in 20 years we can get to a point in where kids are educated a little better about what they are looking at down the line.

I think a 1-2 year break after high school will help some, but also leaves the chance of that individual not ever going to college.

What I'm saying isn't groundbreaking at all. It's as simple as the government mandating that students pass a basic standardized test in their junior year of high school. They do this all the time with new tests anyhow. But that was really a response to your "entrance fee" idea. But the problem is now you're shifting to an entirely different set of argument. But if we follow your idea, we'd need an even greater set of changes in the country. If we have a 1-2 to year break then you'd have even more teenagers on the job market where there are not any jobs. Further, you would have all these hundreds of thousands of college-aged people doing what exactly....

It wouldn't help some, it would help a few and hurt most. Overnight the US economy isn't going to change where most jobs don't require a college degree these days. You would have more people fighting over the same jobs or people staying longer at their current jobs thus keeping the rising high school kids from getting a job. I say look at it like this, using your own former hypothetical.

You said how many people would give an 18 year old 30k dollars to invest...I say plenty IF you properly qualify the situation. First and foremost, most people are graduating with that much, not taking in that much per year. So let's just say you're going to be giving that 18 year old 7500 dollars per year (assuming 4 years).

Now if you tell this 18 year old that THEY have to pay this money back no matter what, and you tell them all the different ways that they can invest it and the likely outcomes (think college majors, degrees and the quality of the university), and how it will affect his life going forward (quality of living, etc.), and they STILL want to take that money, then YES you would have a many people willing to invest 7500 a year into that 18 year old because

A) you're guaranteed to get your money back and
B) most of those 18 year olds will look at those odds and will be more cautious, they'd sit back and look at it with the same they look at info-commercials and telemarketers
C) the only ones left would be those who have fully considered their options and decided that they believe that can make a ROI that investment anyway.

It's just that we wait until the end of their junior year of beginning of their senior year to tell them and expect them to take all of that into consideration while meeting application deadlines. They're given too much at once. It should be something ingrained and developed throughout high school. But my point is still that they can do it, it's just that they're not being given the tools to do so and are also failing to seek the answers. In today's globalized world, this isn't the time to be telling American kids to fall behind.

 

[nineteeneightysix]

Its all part of the plan.

School is one of the biggest scams of all time. and I have a bachelors degree.

I couldn't agree more...