How do we help or deal with all the disgruntled young men in the country?

[RaspberryFitted]

I'm on social media to promote the comic book company I own and their posts are promoted a lot. Not even from people I follow.

Okay, back to my point — you are using young women as a point of reference for young men instead of directing asking young men up front.

 

[Neuromancer]

Okay, back to my point — you are using young women as a point of reference for young men instead of directing asking young men up front.

Oh I ask the young men I mentor. I just checked in with one of mentee's a few seconds ago. But you are right, I shouldn't listen to people who are probably just loud and bitter.

 

[RaspberryFitted]

Oh I ask the young men I mentor. I just checked in with one of mentee's a few seconds ago. But you are right, I shouldn't listen to people who are probably just loud and bitter.

yeah that’s my overall point.

World would be a better place if you start asking for the problem instead of rushing to a solution.

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

the root of all of it is capitalism



i’m not replying to any coli bootlickers who want to have a back and forth either so don’t quote me and try to argue. just ignore me and go get your money if you don’t think capitalism is the root cause.

Yup

Ppl are going to have to die or the economy is going to have to suffer for ppl to pay attention

 

[UnQuantized]

Women have gained a lot of freedom in a short space of time. Since the industrial revolution man's identity has been tied to his dominance over women, however a rebalancing is taking place and it's uncomfortable for everyone. Women are figuring out how to deal with they're new found power and naturally going a bit crazy with it, they are not showing anything new, it's just that parts of female nature always present had been concealed artificially. Naturally society is in a bit of a mess and young men particulary are struggling, we don't know our place in this new context.

My Father was born in the late 1940s, my older brothers were born in the 1970s and 80s and I the late last born was born in the 90s. My relationship with women and my own masculinity is completely different than my brothers and my father. My father grew up in a world of Patriarchs and men running everything and that is reflected in his character; he is stoic, very grounded and sure in his purpose while my older brothers are similar to him they are as grounded but not as stoic and unemotional yet they are still noticeably very comfortable in their masculinity.

I have grown up in a different context, I always went to mixed schools, almost all my teachers were women, I have no experience of women being submissive, weak or held back, so young men like me grow up not sure of how to express masculinity or if there is even a vessel to receive our masculinity. Society seems to have a love and hate relationship with masculinity. They want men to show up and be strong when it's convenience then stand back and put women first, this creates a cognitive dissonance for both genders, triggering bitterness which influencers and grifters take advantage of. It's also not understood that you can't have the great things that come with masculinity without some of the bad.

The challenge for men today is to develop a healthy masculine identity that is not entirely dependent on money, power and sex. If so many men are struggling then that is a sign that the masculine is being challenged on a collective level. I think the challenge is to go inside, really develop an inner life and get silent, find out who you really are and what you want on an individual level, find clarity on your sense of responsibility to the collective. Do you care about making the world a better place or are you strictly about getting your desires and needs met, don't lie to yourself in the big picture there are no right answers. When you live a life of conviction and purpose based on conscious desires and intentions life will adjust around you.

Dedication to a craft or to real spiritual communion I think is a healthy path for men today. There are lessons in the way monks and artist of late antiquity to the middle ages lived their lives with total dedication to an ideal that men could learn from today, I see a lot of aimless drifting. Also there is alternative path if you are very bold of approaching life with complete fearlessness for a cause think Malcolm X towards the end of his life, masculine energy needs to be focused on something.

 

[Iverson_64]

It's deeper than just economics tho. I saw a chart that shows a direct correlation between education and inceldom i.e. men with just a high school dipoloma where the least likely to be incels, men with PHDs are the most likely. There are exceptions but I think it's safe to say most men with PHD's are doing well for themselves financially.

You got to remember women are going for what they are attracted to and while money plays a huge factor especially after 30, there are less tangible things like social status, charisma, "aura", swag, being the leader of your friend group, etc. From 18-25 those factors are far more important than money. There are dudes making 300k at Google that can't get laid unless they pay for it.

Getting men to make more money is relatively easy if they put in the work and have a long-term plan. Becoming a man that women desire isn't quite as straight forward and it will be harder for some men than others regardless of them being a good dude, or intelligent, hard working, etc.

There are good women (on paper) who like scumbag dudes and dudes with high social clout (life of the party) because those men get their coochie wet. You can get young women without clout but you better be exceptionally handsome and/or entertaining. We can be honest and tell men to either become more like those men, try to find one of the minority of young attractive women who don't like scumbags and popular men from 18-28, become a passport bro or do the sugar baby/escort thing.

First and foremost, can you show actual credible sources that prove that rich and successful men are more likely to be incels than other men?

Cause most stats I've seen showed an inverse correlation to what you're saying. Middle-upper class and educated men statistically have the highest marriage rates and lowest divorce rates in the country. Hell, most incels online that complain about women are broke and underemployed by their own admission. A few are better off but they're in the minority.

Also, swag, clout, and the other things you bring up usually correlate with success one way or another. The average college athlete is not a "dumb jock" like the stereotype. They're usually very ambitious and work hard to maintain their scholarships. And we all know college athletes don't struggle with women. But it's exaggerated to say that highly educated guys in college struggle with women.

Many educated and/or successful men have high n-counts, girlfriends, and wives. I've seen that first hand. They also pull better quality women than broke and unambitious men who only bring swag and charisma to the table. A lot of those dudes get p*ssy but it's usually with lower tier women who are on their level. Quality > Quantity.

Like I said, there's no real proof that stable/educated men struggle with women more than poor/uneducated men. And the majority of married successful men have cited that they met their wives in college which contradicts your point that college or young adult girls are all chasing after broke f*ckboys while ignoring stable/educated men for relationships.

I'm an accountant who wears glasses and all and never struggled with women. Most of my educated/stable male friends are either with partners or just got off a relationships. I just talked to a friend of mines the other day who's Black and a fellow accountant who bought a home in North Carolina with his fiance. We're planning to thrown him a party before he heads down South for good.

It all depends on your circle I guess.

 

[get these nets]

How do we get rid of capitalism? Any actionable items you want to offer? I agree with you to be clear. I'm trying to live in the world we have not the world I want.

A lot of the critiques of systems across these forums don't look at addressing problems in practical ways. In that sense they are copouts.

I don't know about saving the world, or dealing with all the young disgruntled men in America.
But, in terms of young Black boys in our circles, we have to show them a wide range of things that the world has to offer.Early in life. Find out what they have natural ability and interest in, and help them to develop that interest. I think a lot of young men feel like they are floating aimlessly. Have to root them in something. Self development gives them a purpose.

 

[RaspberryFitted]

Women have gained a lot of freedom in a short space of time. Since the industrial revolution man's identity has been tied to his dominance over women, however a rebalancing is taking place and it's uncomfortable for everyone. Women are figuring out how to deal with they're new found power and naturally going a bit crazy with it, they are not showing anything new, it's just that parts of female nature always present had been concealed artificially. Naturally society is in a bit of a mess and young men particulary are struggling, we don't know our place in this new context.

My Father was born in the late 1940s, my older brothers were born in the 1970s and 80s and I the late last born was born in the 90s. My relationship with women and my own masculinity is completely different than my brothers and my father. My father grew up in a world of Patriarchs and men running everything and that is reflected in his character; he is stoic, very grounded and sure in his purpose while my older brothers are similar to him they are as grounded but not as stoic and unemotional yet they are still noticeably very comfortable in their masculinity.

I have grown up in a different context, I always went to mixed schools, almost all my teachers were women, I have no experience of women being submissive, weak or held back, so young men like me grow up not sure of how to express masculinity or if there is even a vessel to receive our masculinity. Society seems to have a love and hate relationship with masculinity. They want men to show up and be strong when it's convenience then stand back and put women first, this creates a cognitive dissonance for both genders, triggering bitterness which influencers and grifters take advantage of. It's also not understood that you can't have the great things that come with masculinity without some of the bad.

The challenge for men today is to develop a healthy masculine identity that is not entirely dependent on money, power and sex. If so many men are struggling then that is a sign that the masculine is being challenged on a collective level. I think the challenge is to go inside, really develop an inner life and get silent, find out who you really are and what you want on an individual level, find clarity on your sense of responsibility to the collective. Do you care about making the world a better place or are you strictly about getting your desires and needs met, don't lie to yourself in the big picture there are no right answers. When you live a life of conviction and purpose based on conscious desires and intentions life will adjust around you.

Dedication to a craft or to real spiritual communion I think is a healthy path for men today. There are lessons in the way monks and artist of late antiquity to the middle ages lived their lives with total dedication to an ideal that men could learn from today, I see a lot of aimless drifting. Also there is alternative path if you are very bold of approaching life with complete fearlessness for a cause think Malcolm X towards the end of his life, masculine energy needs to be focused on something.

Great post. The part about society’s love hate relationship with masculinity is a concept I’ve encountered but couldn’t put into a phrase

 

[V Skyye]

It's deeper than just economics tho. I saw a chart that shows a direct correlation between education and inceldom i.e. men with just a high school dipoloma where the least likely to be incels, men with PHDs are the most likely. There are exceptions but I think it's safe to say most men with PHD's are doing well for themselves financially.

You got to remember women are going for what they are attracted to and while money plays a huge factor especially after 30, there are less tangible things like social status, charisma, "aura", swag, being the leader of your friend group, etc. From 18-25 those factors are far more important than money. There are dudes making 300k at Google that can't get laid unless they pay for it.

Getting men to make more money is relatively easy if they put in the work and have a long-term plan. Becoming a man that women desire isn't quite as straight forward and it will be harder for some men than others regardless of them being a good dude, or intelligent, hard working, etc.

There are good women (on paper) who like scumbag dudes and dudes with high social clout (life of the party) because those men get their coochie wet. You can get young women without clout but you better be exceptionally handsome and/or entertaining. We can be honest and tell men to either become more like those men, try to find one of the minority of young attractive women who don't like scumbags and popular men from 18-28, become a passport bro or do the sugar baby/escort thing.

Yep. That’s why I mentioned team activities earlier for kids. You have to develop some type of personality. Whether it be cool/popular person, nerd, music junkie, sports… it’s not just make money and your life will be easy. People have to learn early how to navigate around other people and their strengths and weaknesses socially.

And this can also help with isolation issues. Women have control of who they have sex with and when so there’s nothing to be done about that. There’s too much focus on casual sex anyway and not enough focus on genuine connections with people.

 

[High Art]

A lot of these young men seem disillusioned. Like the rug was pulled out from under them.

This right here. A lot of them feel as if society was not and is not honest with them. That's all really. Everything they do is a reaction to a world where they feel as if they are taking crazy pills. This is actually how and why feminism gets scapegoated. This is how they fall into racially motivated right-wing groups as well. We tell them all shyt is equal when it really isn't. There is nothing wrong with that level of inequality if it is being introduced to correct certain issues like racism and sexism but one has to be honest about this aspect and bush all this talk that most of these dudes are either lazy, stupid, or something else. entirely. This is why redpill and manosphere spaces are growing. Consider that their whole existence is around "the redpill", the revelation of truth about the world in itself. It's right there in the name. That has always been the issue.

Then again, I think a lot of people in higher positions realize this. They know that merely being transparent would also help things considerably but at the same time hurt since it would show how unbalanced and unfair the system is for some of these dudes.

 

[O³ (O cubed)]

Tell them the truth.

Media tells boys that girls want sensitive men who share their feelings. Real life shows them that women like a$$holes.

Media tells his that if you work hard you get rich. Truth is that if you work hard and not smart you're basically on a hamster wheel to an early grave.

Media tells men to settle down and get married. Women initiate 70% of divorces.

I could go on.

The truth about being a man is that outside of your immediate family and friends, nobody gives a fukk about you. People see you as a utility. It's down to the individual man to make himself valuable.

 

[Cloutius Maximus]

First and foremost, can you show actual credible sources that prove that rich and successful men are more likely to be incels than other men?

Cause most stats I've seen showed an inverse correlation to what you're saying. Middle-upper class and educated men statistically have the highest marriage rates and lowest divorce rates in the country. Hell, most incels online that complain about women are broke and underemployed by their own admission. A few are better off but they're in the minority.

Also, swag, clout, and the other things you bring up usually correlate with success one way or another. The average college athlete is not a "dumb jock" like the stereotype. They're usually very ambitious and work hard to maintain their scholarships. And we all know college athletes don't struggle with women. But it's exaggerated to say that highly educated guys in college struggle with women.

Many educated and/or successful men have high n-counts, girlfriends, and wives. I've seen that first hand. They also pull better quality women than broke and unambitious men who only bring swag and charisma to the table. A lot of those dudes get p*ssy but it's usually with lower tier women who are on their level. Quality > Quantity.

Like I said, there's no real proof that stable/educated men struggle with women more than poor/uneducated men. And the majority of married successful men have cited that they met their wives in college which contradicts your point that college or young adult girls are all chasing after broke f*ckboys while ignoring stable/educated men for relationships.

I'm an accountant who wears glasses and all and never struggled with women. Most of my educated/stable male friends are either with partners or just got off a relationships. I just talked to a friend of mines the other day who's Black and a fellow accountant who bought a home in North Carolina with his fiance. We're planning to thrown him a party before he heads down South for good.

It all depends on your circle I guess.

I didn't go as far as to say broke dudes are doing better with women than educated, successful men. Overall, having money and a degree will absolutely help with pulling higher quality women. Just saying having money, a degree, a car or your own place isn't a guarantee anymore and it's possible to get passed up during those 18-25 years for dudes with social clout without those things. Not all women but it might be a particular girl you want.

Remember most men aren't incels even today. 2/3rds of men are eating. Most men with degrees get women but there are a minority that do fit the stereotype of the guy that focused on the books 24/7 and put dating on the backburner. Or the foreign transfer student that can't speak English. The chart makes sense because men without degrees will smash damn near everything, many of em don't have anything else to do besides fukk and hang out, and if they got a job they work with other low-tier women who are down to fukk.

 

[Shadow King]

An actual workaholic/hypercapitalist is not watching twitch streams for 8 hours.

They're grinding 60 hour work weeks so they can get that high-salary and eventually own capital.

Feminism isn't stopping young men from putting down the playstation and going to the gym, taking showers, shampooing their hair, taking care of their skin, taking care of their teeth, smelling good, going to school, learning a trade, leveling up in life, etc. Either you do the things that put in a better position to get the women you want or you don't.

If men (especially white men) wanted to change the hypercapitalist culture then they could. but they don't, and if they don't then they shouldn't complain about the negative affects of that hypercapitalist culture and how it effects society.

This is how I know you're not serious.

 

[King Jove]

This is how I know you're not serious.

Yeah man, I tried to take a shower this morning and there was a blue haired SJW feminist that stopped me right before I turned on the water.

 

[Wildhundreds]

Oh and the old heads should of empowered the younger boys to speak up and handle their community. Instead of being afraid of big mama’s belt.

You talking about empowered younger boys to be better fathers than the old heads?