House Of The Dragon - Season 2 - Official Thread 6/16 (NO SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Gizmo_Duck
- Start date
R.E.N. Spells Ren
Veteran
Gotchu. They just seemed like fukkups, not trained world renowned assassins so I’d say it’s on brand
right. when they were making the plan, the big dude asked Daemon, "what if we can't find him" and the scene cut with Daemon thinking... Clearly, "a son for a son" was the back up. Kill whatever male heir you can find. This was more Daemon's fukk up than theirs. They were following orders. That's why Rhany blacks on him in the previews cause now everyone is going to look at her like she took it too far killing a baby like that.
In Martin’s writing, Helaena and Aegon have three children: 6-year-old twins Jaehaerys and Jaehaera and 2-year-old son Maelor. The crux of the Blood and Cheese scene, what makes it so sickening and what provides it with agonizing impact beyond merely the death of a child (which we’ve already seen tons of in this story), is that the self-described “debt collectors” make Helaena choose which of her sons is going to live — and then kill the son she opted to save instead of the one she fingered for death. This whole exchange is only a couple paragraphs long, but it is packed with horrific details that linger in one’s memory: “On her knees, weeping, Helaena named her youngest, Maelor. Perhaps she thought the boy was too young to understand, or perhaps it was because the older boy, Jaehaerys, was King Aegon’s firstborn son and heir, next in line to the Iron Throne. ‘You hear that, little boy?’ Cheese whispered to Maelor. ‘Your momma wants you dead.’ Then he gave Blood a grin, and the hulking swordsman slew Prince Jaehaerys, striking off the boy’s head with a single blow. The queen began to scream.”
Helaena’s desperation and shock at her elder son’s death, Maelor’s knowledge that his mother picked him to die, Jaehaera old enough to understand everything going on, Helaena having to live with what happened — it’s a macabre menagerie that emphasizes exactly how ruinous this war will be. There will be intentional decisions made within Teams Green and Black that will tear families apart and haunt them for generations. House of the Dragon’s adaptation, while effective in its use of limited perspective (we only hear Blood and Cheese sawing off Jaehaerys’s head, a nightmarish squelching sound design), doesn’t hit as much emotionally“I’d probably go a little bit more graphic on the gore,” Tom Glynn-Carney, who plays Aegon II, told Vulture. “I could have done with, ‘Oh, I can’t look at that!’ The sadist in me needed it.” as it does visually and aurally.
In the series, Aegon and Helaena have only the aged-down twins Jaehaerys and Jaehaera. Phia Saban has been solidly spooky as Helaena in the series’ reimagining of her as somewhat clairvoyant (her line delivery of “I’m afraid … not the dragons, the rats” is solid foreshadowing), but when faced with Blood and Cheese, the scant dialogue underserves her. She’s rigid and barely speaks, offering her necklace as barter before quickly identifying Jaehaerys. Neither reaction feels as intense as this scene needs, and there’s no attempt from her to save her son, even though she knows he’s the kingdom’s only male heir.
This isn’t to suggest that the only valid emotions in a traumatic situation are big, exaggerated ones. However, since Helaena’s marriage to Aegon, HOTD has primarily coded her as a mother; giving her the impossible choice from the text would have accentuated whatever conflicted, pressured, or dutiful feelings she has about motherhood and her children. Without the terrible choice to bring her into sharper focus, and without more proactivity from Helaena in the episode, this scene passes by without the acute there’s no turning back from this feeling it should have. There should be magnitude and mania (in the novels, Helaena basically goes insane from the guilt of her choice, and Alicent takes over raising Maelor) and a suggestion not just for what the death of Jaehaerys will mean for Aegon (who gets a requisite “I love my son” scene earlier in the episode), but for Helaena, too, whose involvement so far in this war — and the series, for that matter — has felt fairly ancillary.
It’s odd, then, that “A Son for a Son” chooses to end not on Helaena’s grief or a personalized sense of her loss (“They killed the boy” is weirdly cold, even accepting, phrasing, isn’t it?), but on the confused face of Alicent, caught having sex with Kingsguard Lord Commander Criston Cole (a dalliance that perhaps led him to ignore his security duties, allowing Blood and Cheese to slide in). Alicent and Cole’s oath-breaking relationship serves as another gaffe HOTD is weaving into its tapestry of accidental conflict escalation, but the mistake the show makes is diminishing the details that elucidate Blood and Cheese’s viciousness, and the deliberate calculations of the man who sent them. Without them, what should be one of House of the Dragon’s most infamous scenes minimizes the guilt and grief of everyone involved.
Helaena’s desperation and shock at her elder son’s death, Maelor’s knowledge that his mother picked him to die, Jaehaera old enough to understand everything going on, Helaena having to live with what happened — it’s a macabre menagerie that emphasizes exactly how ruinous this war will be. There will be intentional decisions made within Teams Green and Black that will tear families apart and haunt them for generations. House of the Dragon’s adaptation, while effective in its use of limited perspective (we only hear Blood and Cheese sawing off Jaehaerys’s head, a nightmarish squelching sound design), doesn’t hit as much emotionally“I’d probably go a little bit more graphic on the gore,” Tom Glynn-Carney, who plays Aegon II, told Vulture. “I could have done with, ‘Oh, I can’t look at that!’ The sadist in me needed it.” as it does visually and aurally.
In the series, Aegon and Helaena have only the aged-down twins Jaehaerys and Jaehaera. Phia Saban has been solidly spooky as Helaena in the series’ reimagining of her as somewhat clairvoyant (her line delivery of “I’m afraid … not the dragons, the rats” is solid foreshadowing), but when faced with Blood and Cheese, the scant dialogue underserves her. She’s rigid and barely speaks, offering her necklace as barter before quickly identifying Jaehaerys. Neither reaction feels as intense as this scene needs, and there’s no attempt from her to save her son, even though she knows he’s the kingdom’s only male heir.
This isn’t to suggest that the only valid emotions in a traumatic situation are big, exaggerated ones. However, since Helaena’s marriage to Aegon, HOTD has primarily coded her as a mother; giving her the impossible choice from the text would have accentuated whatever conflicted, pressured, or dutiful feelings she has about motherhood and her children. Without the terrible choice to bring her into sharper focus, and without more proactivity from Helaena in the episode, this scene passes by without the acute there’s no turning back from this feeling it should have. There should be magnitude and mania (in the novels, Helaena basically goes insane from the guilt of her choice, and Alicent takes over raising Maelor) and a suggestion not just for what the death of Jaehaerys will mean for Aegon (who gets a requisite “I love my son” scene earlier in the episode), but for Helaena, too, whose involvement so far in this war — and the series, for that matter — has felt fairly ancillary.
It’s odd, then, that “A Son for a Son” chooses to end not on Helaena’s grief or a personalized sense of her loss (“They killed the boy” is weirdly cold, even accepting, phrasing, isn’t it?), but on the confused face of Alicent, caught having sex with Kingsguard Lord Commander Criston Cole (a dalliance that perhaps led him to ignore his security duties, allowing Blood and Cheese to slide in). Alicent and Cole’s oath-breaking relationship serves as another gaffe HOTD is weaving into its tapestry of accidental conflict escalation, but the mistake the show makes is diminishing the details that elucidate Blood and Cheese’s viciousness, and the deliberate calculations of the man who sent them. Without them, what should be one of House of the Dragon’s most infamous scenes minimizes the guilt and grief of everyone involved.
Source
It would've hit, way different.
Yeah, it wasn't a long game transaction. Daemon wanted something done right then and there, Aemond was the target but if he couldn't be found then a son for a son was the other option for them to get paid in full.
Just an emotional and erratic display of giving in to impulse, the Targaryen way. Which is why #StarkSet will be superior in any timeline
Just an emotional and erratic display of giving in to impulse, the Targaryen way. Which is why #StarkSet will be superior in any timeline
Silver Surfer
Veteran
Yeah I thought they fukked up then remembered there was a scene where they asked what if
FukYaFeelings
Superstar
Boy yall nikkas funny
where fukk have I been when brother and sister Helaena and Aegon got married and have a whole family 
I shouldn't be surprised b/c we talking about half targs but when this happened?
I shouldn't be surprised b/c we talking about half targs but when this happened?
Ridge Forrester
All Star
I missed the credits the first time I watched.
But it looks like it's depicting the history of the Targaryens from the Doom to the Dance.
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
Still wouldn’t have hit. I mean who is really connected to Heleana as a show watcher? She’s been made to be nothing more than a mumbling idiot (altho we know her mumblings are foreshadowing). And we have zero attachment to them kids besides “oh snap, y’all killed a kid”.In Martin’s writing, Helaena and Aegon have three children: 6-year-old twins Jaehaerys and Jaehaera and 2-year-old son Maelor. The crux of the Blood and Cheese scene, what makes it so sickening and what provides it with agonizing impact beyond merely the death of a child (which we’ve already seen tons of in this story), is that the self-described “debt collectors” make Helaena choose which of her sons is going to live — and then kill the son she opted to save instead of the one she fingered for death. This whole exchange is only a couple paragraphs long, but it is packed with horrific details that linger in one’s memory: “On her knees, weeping, Helaena named her youngest, Maelor. Perhaps she thought the boy was too young to understand, or perhaps it was because the older boy, Jaehaerys, was King Aegon’s firstborn son and heir, next in line to the Iron Throne. ‘You hear that, little boy?’ Cheese whispered to Maelor. ‘Your momma wants you dead.’ Then he gave Blood a grin, and the hulking swordsman slew Prince Jaehaerys, striking off the boy’s head with a single blow. The queen began to scream.”
Helaena’s desperation and shock at her elder son’s death, Maelor’s knowledge that his mother picked him to die, Jaehaera old enough to understand everything going on, Helaena having to live with what happened — it’s a macabre menagerie that emphasizes exactly how ruinous this war will be. There will be intentional decisions made within Teams Green and Black that will tear families apart and haunt them for generations. House of the Dragon’s adaptation, while effective in its use of limited perspective (we only hear Blood and Cheese sawing off Jaehaerys’s head, a nightmarish squelching sound design), doesn’t hit as much emotionally“I’d probably go a little bit more graphic on the gore,” Tom Glynn-Carney, who plays Aegon II, told Vulture. “I could have done with, ‘Oh, I can’t look at that!’ The sadist in me needed it.” as it does visually and aurally.
In the series, Aegon and Helaena have only the aged-down twins Jaehaerys and Jaehaera. Phia Saban has been solidly spooky as Helaena in the series’ reimagining of her as somewhat clairvoyant (her line delivery of “I’m afraid … not the dragons, the rats” is solid foreshadowing), but when faced with Blood and Cheese, the scant dialogue underserves her. She’s rigid and barely speaks, offering her necklace as barter before quickly identifying Jaehaerys. Neither reaction feels as intense as this scene needs, and there’s no attempt from her to save her son, even though she knows he’s the kingdom’s only male heir.
This isn’t to suggest that the only valid emotions in a traumatic situation are big, exaggerated ones. However, since Helaena’s marriage to Aegon, HOTD has primarily coded her as a mother; giving her the impossible choice from the text would have accentuated whatever conflicted, pressured, or dutiful feelings she has about motherhood and her children. Without the terrible choice to bring her into sharper focus, and without more proactivity from Helaena in the episode, this scene passes by without the acute there’s no turning back from this feeling it should have. There should be magnitude and mania (in the novels, Helaena basically goes insane from the guilt of her choice, and Alicent takes over raising Maelor) and a suggestion not just for what the death of Jaehaerys will mean for Aegon (who gets a requisite “I love my son” scene earlier in the episode), but for Helaena, too, whose involvement so far in this war — and the series, for that matter — has felt fairly ancillary.
It’s odd, then, that “A Son for a Son” chooses to end not on Helaena’s grief or a personalized sense of her loss (“They killed the boy” is weirdly cold, even accepting, phrasing, isn’t it?), but on the confused face of Alicent, caught having sex with Kingsguard Lord Commander Criston Cole (a dalliance that perhaps led him to ignore his security duties, allowing Blood and Cheese to slide in). Alicent and Cole’s oath-breaking relationship serves as another gaffe HOTD is weaving into its tapestry of accidental conflict escalation, but the mistake the show makes is diminishing the details that elucidate Blood and Cheese’s viciousness, and the deliberate calculations of the man who sent them. Without them, what should be one of House of the Dragon’s most infamous scenes minimizes the guilt and grief of everyone involved.
Source
It would've hit, way different.
It is what it is. Aside from Rhaneyra, Daemon, Rhaenys, Aemond, Alicent, Criston and Otto…doesn’t seem like people’s emotions are evoked by the other characters, even Aegon is just a plot device
detroitwalt
Superstar
Argon drinking with his boys:
“You could be Aegon the Strong”
”No my nephews already claimed that”
“You could be Aegon the Strong”
”No my nephews already claimed that”
During the time jumpwhere fukk have I been when brother and sister Helaena and Aegon got married and have a whole family
I shouldn't be surprised b/c we talking about half targs but when this happened?
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
They were married last season, it’s why Alice r was mad aegon raped the the hand maiden, he cheated on Helena. Helena also mentions being ignored by him besides when he’s drunk. The kids are a season 2 creation thowhere fukk have I been when brother and sister Helaena and Aegon got married and have a whole family
I shouldn't be surprised b/c we talking about half targs but when this happened?
Maxine Shaw
#ColiFam gave more $ 2 my students than my school
This shyt was pure cheeks. Ain't no way Daemon Targaryen is gonna duck the smoke like THAT. He would never send another man to kill Aemond - or at the very least, another skilled fighter! This was more pro-Black bullshyt from the writers, who were too scared to Sexy Uncle Daddy be responsible for a child's murder. I'm so sick of it.
detroitwalt
Superstar
GRRM is pro-black?
