If cultural cohesion is high, why were you just proclaiming that minorities need to work towards it?
overall america has cultural cohesion, meaning everybody including white people, and overall everybody should work toward keeping it that way and/or even increasing the amount of assimilation
for the 101st time, the question was asked about america being #1, and i linked that question to the issue of america assimilating black and latinos
and yeah i think minorities should work toward assimilation to mainstream america, specifically in education, because that is where the money and power is in this planet
So just to clarify, cultural cohesion = everyone having the same culture, which goes beyond education, correct? Can we stick with this definition from here forward?
sure
Blacks and Latinos have been in this country since the beginning, why is it now all of a sudden that we are the ones responsible for the country's decline? Blacks/Latinos are no less educated than we were when the country was #1, so how is it now that our lack of education is what is dragging down the entire country?
because blacks and latinos are becoming a majority
Why didn't you make that distinction from the outset of your "cultural cohesion" point?
i was talking about education from the beginning and im talking about education now
unless you live under a rock its very obvious minorities are integrated into american culture in a lot of ways, but education stands out as one way in which they are not
and again i have no idea why cultural cohesion is controversial, cultural cohesion is a defining characteristic of a nation state
here it is again in case you missed it
Nation state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the nation is a cultural and/or ethnic entity.
The most obvious impact of the nation state, as compared to its non-national predecessors, is the creation of a uniform national culture, through state policy. The model of the nation state implies that its population constitutes a nation, united by a common descent, a common language and many forms of shared culture. When the implied unity was absent, the nation state often tried to create it. It promoted a uniform national language, through language policy. The creation of national systems of compulsory primary education and a relatively uniform curriculum in secondary schools, was the most effective instrument in the spread of the national languages. The schools also taught the national history, often in a propagandistic and mythologised version, and (especially during conflicts) some nation states still teach this kind of history.
if america lacks cultural cohesion it will obviously decline or dissipatate into separate nations unless force is used
why am i getting attacked for bringing up basic facts about state formation? its not me thats saying its, its the theory of state formation that is saying it, are yall retarded?
Again, how is the lack of education focus of 28% of the population responsible for 100% of the country's decline? And what about the fact that education for everyone has been less and less of a focus since the space age?
i didnt say its 100%, i said its a factor, and it becomes more of factor as minorities become more than 28% of the population
the math is pretty clear, blacks and latino are right now graduating from HS at about 50-60 percent rate, if 30 years from now blacks and latinos make up more than 50% of the nation, then that low graduation rate will cause the decline of america, there is no if ands or buts about it
what i am saying is that the low graduation rate of blacks and latinos is caused by culture, so i think there has to be a shift in the culture to stop the eventual inevitable decline of the US cause by low graduation rates of more than 50% of the population
its simple math, i dont think i should be attacked for pointing out the math, we are not doing ourselves a favor
By any metric, there's nobody more "assimilated" here than the black Americans whose ancestors were brought + kept here as slaves, and yet now its those very folks you are proclaiming aren't "American" enough. I am confused as to why you feel that is a legacy worth perpetuating?
I do understand the history of immigration in America. I remember how damn near every group that came here, from the Chinese, to the Irish, to the Italians, to the Japanese, faced some level of discrimination & persecution, which continues to this day w/anyone brown.
ok lets stay focused, i said that assimilation was a 2 way street, you asked me why i didnt say that from the beginning, i said i was saying that because i was using american immigration as a model
america adopted a lot of the culture of the irish, chinese and italians so if im using that as a model for black and latinos, then im saying that america will absorb a lot of the culture of blacks and latinos
so that answers your question of why "i didint say that before" i did say that before you just werent listening
the fact that immigrants were subjected to discrimination doesnt mean that i was saying that assimilation was NOT a 2 way street
so yeah, immigrants were subjected to discrimination, what is your point?
By any metric, there's nobody more "assimilated" here than the black Americans whose ancestors were brought + kept here as slaves, and yet now its those very folks you are proclaiming aren't "American" enough. I am confused as to why you feel that is a legacy worth perpetuating?
yeah i think you are confused, i never said we werent american enough, unlike you i have never defined american as being white, you did, so maybe you are confusing me with somebody else
what i said is that blacks and latinos need to shift our culture as far as education for america to stay #1, that is all i said
"The people" are a faceless monolith? All individuals decide the same things all the time?
yeah its called democracy
But Black Americans are Americans; yet you say they are not part of American culture (as they need to assimilate). Same with Latinos. So if the black and brown people need to be more "American", who is "American"?
when it comes to education, blacks and latinos are not part of the american mainstream, and they need to be, thats my only point, in other ways they are part of the mainstream but im focused on education because that is the most important IMO and like i said there is no exact definition of american
but i can say this, if the HS graduation rate is below the overall average, then its not part of the mainstream in terms of education, and blacks and latinos are not in the mainstream
Yes but even complex issues can be summarized or whittled down to bullet points to some degree; you have failed to even provide one bullet point outside of education. Just name one other thing that is part of a culture, anything... There are some pretty low hanging fruit
culture is wide subject, can you narrow what aspect of culture you want me to define, is it music, literature, sports, language etc etc,
im focused on education but let me know what subject you want me to break down, preferably make another thread
"According to the U.S census about 43.8 percent of African immigrants had achieved a college degree, compared with 42.5 of Asian-Americans, 28.9 percent for immigrants from Europe, Russia and Canada and 23.1 percent of the U.S. population as a whole"
most immigrants are from mexico and latin america, african and europeans are a tiny percetnage of immgrants and asian just started coming up but that are still a tiny population
White people comprise 72% of the American population, how/why is America's fall from grace the fault of the remaining 28%?
first of all i never said america would fall from grace, im optimistic
second the 28 percent is predicted to grow to over 50%
third im just doing the math and saying changes have to be made to stop the decline
No, you said, and I quote:
"so my whole point was about education, i think other areas of culture are not really important because they dont have to do with money and/or there is already assimilation going on"
Which directly contradicts your previous assertion that cultural cohesion (w/no distinction between educational and non-educational "culture") is so important that
"you can always use force" to achieve it. I am unsure of why you would suggest a nation state use force to achieve something that isn't important
ok lets step back, you asked my why i focus on education, and i said other things are not important because they dont have to do with money and there is already assimilation going on, it wasnt important to the subject at hand, i didnt say it was important period
culture is very wide subject, education is a one aspect cultural cohesion, so focusing on education is still focusing on cultural cohesion, i dont see what the contradiction is and especially when i added that assimilation has already happened in other aspects, if assimilation already happened and i dont focus on it ,it doesnt mean that its not important, it simply means im not focused on it because it doesnt need to be focused on, its not a pressing issue
again, i quoted from wikipedia the theory behind of state formation, im not sure why people are mad at me for quoting wikipedia, cultural cohesion is a defining characteristic of a nation state and if it doesnt exist force can be used to enforce it
the fuk you want from me?
that's the theory, its not my personal opinion, im just the messenger
If minorities are fully assimilated why did you suggest that minorities have to assimilate more?
because we havent assimilated in terms of education
, we run things as far as that
