HIGHER LEARNING PODCAST planning thread.

theworldismine13

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we create the better system.

no amount of cultural cohesion cant offset the devastating effects of a culture that is inherently destructive, and american culture is inherently destructive.

so it is not only the cohesion that is important but also the NATURE of that cohesion, because if we all agree to destroy each other because thats our culture then guess what, we have cultural cohesion but we're still all fukked up cuz the nature of that cohesion is negative.

i dont think i can say it any plainer than that...

and let me ask you another question, do you think the current social order is sustainable?

when you create that better system or have an example of it then please post it, but until then i dont see any greener grass on the other side of america

and no i dont think think the current social order, in terms of race, is sustainable, that was my whole point, if america becomes a land of separate cultures it will fail
 

theworldismine13

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So twism, what exactly and specifically is "cultural cohesion
it means exactly what it says, it means people share the same culture

how specifically do black Americans assimilate into this one "American culture"

in a lot of ways they already have assimilated, but as far as this conversation i am saying black americans havent assimilated into the mainstream of the american education system
why should they?

for money and power
 

theworldismine13

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as far as specifics here are my recommendations for assimilating the education of black children into the mainstream

*the ending of the public school system and replacement with vouchers and charter schools
*enforcement of all civil rights laws
*destruction of public housing and limiting section 8
*actually publicize the stats around education, i think a lot of people dont really know the specifics or how bad it is
* any new government programs should be focused on culture and encouraging capitalism and ownership
* dropping small tactical nuclear weapons on all rap record labels
* electing more black leaders
* a lot of it is things that have be done have to be done by the local community, so i cant call it, people have to come up with their own creative ways to assimilate black education to the mainstream
 

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it means exactly what it says, it means people share the same culture

Why are you talking about culture like it's a pair of pants or a shirt you can just put on and take off? Culture is a product of circumstance. There are an abundance of different cultural norms that various different types of peoples in America adhere to, I'm not just talking separation by race. The culture of whites in Huntsville, AL is pretty different from that in say Seattle to a large extent. You're not defining exactly what specific cultural aspects and degree of this so-called "cultural cohesion" is acceptable and what specific cultural aspects and degree of it will cause this drastic collapse of society you're referring or even defining it. "People sharing the same culture" is vague, empty rhetoric, specifically when you're talking about black peoples' culture vs. mainstream culture. In many ways blacks do share the same culture as white Americans, and in other ways they do not. Again, you're not being specific, but I see it's a failed task to try and coerce you to do so.

in a lot of ways they already have assimilated, but as far as this conversation i am saying black americans havent assimilated into the mainstream of the american education system
Again, that's not cultural assimilation. You can describe the lack of emphasis on education among some or many blacks as a cultural defect or deficiency, but correcting that is not the same thing as cultural assimilation and becoming part of "one culture" as you said on the podcast.

This is really sounds like some c00n shyt you're talking. Blacks not valuing education enough because they're not assimilated directly implies that 1. no blacks value education now, and 2. valuing education is a province or inherent characteristic of white people, as if emphasis on education is white people culture. America as a whole doesn't value education all that much. We're a pretty anti-intellectual society compared to many other industrialized nations. You are in essence co-signing anti-academic blacks who say getting educated is "acting white."

There are plenty of black people who get educated without "culturally assimilating." Like this guy I know who is a computer programmer for a defense contractor and an entrepeneur who owns two other businesses and drives a Jaguar and a Benz. He's a regular dude with all the normal cultural nuances of most black people I know. But you're shytting on his culture and telling him and he should be somebody else.
 

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TWISM I am a black man in America. Aside from putting more emphasis on my education tell me what I need to do to assimilate more.

Lets flip the script. Say I'm a white dude. What would I need to do to assimilate more + assist in cultural cohesion? Break it down for me like ronnie.
 

theworldismine13

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Why are you talking about culture like it's a pair of pants or a shirt you can just put on and take off?


actually no, im talking about culture as what it is, its an amorphous abstract concept that cant always be explained in concrete terms

you keep trying to put in in concrete terms, but there is a limit to how concretely you can explain culture

cultural cohesion means exactly what it says, it means people share the same culture

Culture is a product of circumstance.

wow, really? thats a really deep enlightening statement, i never knew that, thanks for the information

There are an abundance of different cultural norms that various different types of peoples in America adhere to, I'm not just talking separation by race. The culture of whites in Huntsville, AL is pretty different from that in say Seattle to a large extent.

yeah, but how does that contradict what i am saying?

overall there is a high level of cultural cohesion between somebody from Al and somebody from Seattle relative to other countries, there are regional differences inside the US and if those regional differences increase (in other words the level of cultural cohesion decreases) then the united states will dissipate, thats why we had a civil war

so for the united states to stay strong its important to increase the level of cultural cohesion between people in AL and people in seattle, or at least make sure it doesnt increase

again im befuddled as to what is controversial about what i am saying about cultural cohesion, im not stating my personal opinion as much as im pointing out a basic fact of state building, its self evident that cultural cohesion is important to a nation state and lack of it will lead to decline or dissipation of the nation state

You're not defining exactly what specific cultural aspects and degree of this so-called "cultural cohesion" is acceptable and what specific cultural aspects and degree of it will cause this drastic collapse of society you're referring or even defining it. "People sharing the same culture" is vague, empty rhetoric, specifically when you're talking about black peoples' culture vs. mainstream culture. In many ways blacks do share the same culture as white Americans, and in other ways they do not. Again, you're not being specific, but I see it's a failed task to try and coerce you to do so.

because that is to broad of a topic, its impossible to know how much cultural cohesion is needed to keep a country together. there are too many factors involved

so its deliberately vague, if i was able to make a formula to predict the exact level of cultural cohesion needed to keep a nation state together then i would have won a nobel prize for it, there is no concrete answer to that and i doubt there will ever be

i narrowed it down to education culture, for the record i have never said anything about white people, i simply referred to mainstream american culture, you are more than welcome to equate the two, but for the record i never did

i have asserted before that the educational performance of blacks and latinos is related to culture, i have long said this

the question was asked is america still #1, i simply said that if blacks and latinos do not assimilate our views of education with the mainstream views america will decline

what more specificity do you need other than cultural views of education?

Again, that's not cultural assimilation. You can describe the lack of emphasis on education among some or many blacks as a cultural defect or deficiency, but correcting that is not the same thing as cultural assimilation and becoming part of "one culture" as you said on the podcast.

i dont see any reason to argue about semantics, i apologize profusely for describing integration of black and latinos into the education system as assimilation :leon:

so using your vocabulary, what i meant to say is that we need to correct the cultural deficiencies of blacks and latinos

This is really sounds like some c00n shyt you're talking. Blacks not valuing education enough because they're not assimilated directly implies that valuing education is a province or inherent characteristic of white people, as if emphasis on education is white people culture. America as a whole doesn't value all the much. We're a pretty anti-intellectual society compared to many other industrialized nations. You are in essence co-signing anti-academic blacks who say getting educated is "acting white."

you can interpret it that way if you want, like i said, i have never said anything about white people, but you are free to make that association if you want

if black and latinos assimilated into mainstream culture then that would imply that american culture is not a white culture, my point about assimilation is that american culture isnt a white culture

so i think you are confused, im in essence saying american culture is not white and if it continues to be defined as white, america will collapse

There are plenty of black people who get educated without "culturally assimilating." Like this guy I know who is a computer programmer for a defense contractor and an entrepeneur who owns two other businesses and drives a Jaguar and a Benz. He's a regular dude with all the normal cultural nuances of most black people I know. But you're shytting on his culture and telling him and he should be somebody else.

sorry, im not interested in sharing anecdotal stories, i dont believe in using anecdotal evidence
 

theworldismine13

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TWISM I am a black man in America. Aside from putting more emphasis on my education tell me what I need to do to assimilate more.

Lets flip the script. Say I'm a white dude. What would I need to do to assimilate more + assist in cultural cohesion? Break it down for me like ronnie.

again lets go back to the original question so we dont get carried away

the question was asked is america #1, i pointed out some of the stats concerning blacks and latinos and i said its important to bring in black and latinos into the mainstream for america to succeed

so my whole point was about education, i think other areas of culture are not really important because they dont have to do with money and/or there is already assimilation going on

education is a big deal because education = money and money = power, and for america to be #1 it has to have the most money and the most power

i think if laws are followed and proper leadership is shown by leaders (it has to be explicitly stated that assimilation is the goal, like what theodore roosvelt said) then assimilation will happen as matter of course in america
 

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again lets go back to the original question so we dont get carried away

the question was asked is america #1, i pointed out some of the stats concerning blacks and latinos and i said its important to bring in black and latinos into the mainstream for america to succeed

so my whole point was about education, i think other areas of culture are not really important because they dont have to do with money and/or there is already assimilation going on

education is a big deal because education = money and money = power, and for america to be #1 it has to have the most money and the most power

i think if laws are followed and proper leadership is shown by leaders (it has to be explicitly stated that assimilation is the goal, like what theodore roosvelt said) then assimilation will happen as matter of course in america

:comeon:

The elephant in the room remains unaddressed. What American culture is must be defined, of not totally, then at least some relevant parts. If Asian culture values education more than American culture, should they merely assimilate and lower their educational standards or should that aspect of American culture be replaced? What are these American cultural elements worth preserving?
 

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again lets go back to the original question so we dont get carried away

the question was asked is america #1, i pointed out some of the stats concerning blacks and latinos and i said its important to bring in black and latinos into the mainstream for america to succeed

so my whole point was about education, i think other areas of culture are not really important because they dont have to do with money and/or there is already assimilation going on

education is a big deal because education = money and money = power, and for america to be #1 it has to have the most money and the most power

i think if laws are followed and proper leadership is shown by leaders (it has to be explicitly stated that assimilation is the goal, like what theodore roosvelt said) then assimilation will happen as matter of course in america
Wait now I am confused. Weren't you saying "a nation state simply needs cohesion", and that if cohesion doesn't happen naturally "you can always use force", etc?

Now everything aside from education is unimportant? But you just said cultural cohesion (which I am assuming is interchangeable with complete assimilation) was a fundamental need for a nation state that should be brought on by force....

Which is it?

What are you trying to say aside from the fact that minorities need to focus more on education (which is a no brainer that I think we can all agree on)?
 

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:comeon:

The elephant in the room remains unaddressed. What American culture is must be defined, of not totally, then at least some relevant parts. If Asian culture values education more than American culture, should they merely assimilate and lower their educational standards or should that aspect of American culture be replaced? What are these American cultural elements worth preserving?

Hell, just defining what American culture is period would be a good start. If I am to completely abandon my history and identity for what TWISM defines as success, it would be pretty helpful to know what exactly I should be doing/internalizing.
 

theworldismine13

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:comeon:

The elephant in the room remains unaddressed. What American culture is must be defined, of not totally, then at least some relevant parts. If Asian culture values education more than American culture, should they merely assimilate and lower their educational standards or should that aspect of American culture be replaced? What are these American cultural elements worth preserving?

assimilation is a 2 way street, so people living withing the geogrpahic boundaries of the US should assimilate and in that process american culture changes as it absorbs things from other cultures

yes sometimes the newcomers do certain things better than the mainstream

if asians are doing things better in terms education then it would behoove the mainstream to absorb asian educational cultural norms, if black people are doing music better then it would behoove the mainstream to absorb black musical forms, if immigrants have better food then we should put that food in the maisntream etc etc etc

the exact definition of american culture is and should remain amorphous and pliable except for some corny things like freedom and liberty
 

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assimilation is a 2 way street, so people living withing the geogrpahic boundaries of the US should assimilate and in that process american culture changes as it absorbs things from other cultures
This is not what you were saying before

yes sometimes the newcomers do certain things better than the mainstream

if asians are doing things better in terms education then it would behoove the mainstream to absorb asian educational cultural norms, if black people are doing music better then it would behoove the mainstream to absorb black musical forms, if immigrants have better food then we should put that food in the maisntream etc etc etc
This is not what you were saying before either, and in any case who gets to define what is/isn't "better" for something as subjective as music or food

the exact definition of american culture is and should remain amorphous and pliable except for some corny things like freedom and liberty
How can someone work to assimilate into a culture w/no definition?

By that logic, how can minorities aspire to the educational standards of American culture? Especially when you consider minority immigrants, INCLUDING BLACKS, are way more educated than the average "American"?

------------------------------------

If you answer nothing else TWISM, at least do us the favor and answer the question of why you couldn't just say minorities need to focus more on education. Since nothing cultural of value matters besides education, why were you suggesting minorities abandon their culture to assimilate into a culture that celebrates intellectual powerhouses such as Snooki, Kim Kardashian and Larry The Cable Guy.
 
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