Haitian color caste system

[Biscayne]

Francois ,meant well. Just that the way he went about it (ruthless killings and all) was all wrong.

Francois while he was not communist and didn't want to associate with Castro had the same mindset as Castro: Small countries should be free to determine their own destinies which includes being more than mere playgrounds for the major countries run by puppet governments manipulated by said major countries

That is why he kicked both American and French ambassadors out of the country. He felt that they were doing too much to influence political atmosphere in the country for their own gains.

But his fatal mistake was reassociating back with the Americans when he felt his death was imminent. He knew his son was too young and too weak to maintain power without the backing of a super power. Enter, the United States back into the fold. We haven't recovered since.

BINGO!!!! My mom would tell me something similar. She'd always say she didn't endorse how evil Papa Doc was(he was mad to say the least) but she'd talk about how much less volatile Haiti was back then, even under a boarderline Communist regime. She had nothing but pleasant memories of Haiti back then as a child in and teenager in the 60's and 70's. After the death of Papa Doc, and the ousting of Baby Doc, and the US occupation of Haiti, Haiti turned volatile, and thus began the modern era of and modern perception of Haiti. No leader was entirely right for Haiti. Baby Doc and his wife Michelle Bennett were seen as thieves. Haitians got fed up, and they were ousted. Aristide would see the same fate 9-10yrs later:



Racist, White foreign policy always seems to find a way to cripple these small Black countries. Than that White media can turn around and say "Look how feral and volatile they are".

 

[Biscayne]

NO.

Just a little thing called racism.

See, a lot of mulattos prefer that their kids marry mulattos because they prefer their babies to have white skin, curly haired hazel eyed babies. They would like to keep the family from turning too dark. But trouble is, outside of those foreigners who became haitian over time, most of the ruling class is regular dark-skin black people And we know mulatto girls feel they need to be with powerful men thus they marry these powerful black men.
But in government it's the blacks that rule. Notice the people in power from senate to presidents

Find me the non-blacks that are at the helm
Again it's about money. Those that have it vs those who dont. And a lot of those who migrated and came with money were white and middle eastern men from mid 1900s.

And even today they are still migrating. I should know. My own cousin married one of those Syrians. He a cool dude and all but still. And lately there has been an influx of Chinese and Koreans too invading Haiti.

 

[Biscayne]

Depends on the area. Remember unlike the other islands Haiti is huge. The Haitian side of the territory alone is 3 times that of Jamaica and Jamaica is considered one of the biggest islands.

If you're trying to buy land near some areas it will cost you an arm and a leg. Jacmel real estate is expensive now and so is Port Salut which is near where my parents are from (Les Cayes area). I' kill to won land near Port-Salut. Just a beautiful area. I want to buy my boy's property in Saint-Louis but the asking price is getting up there. I inherited some land in near Les Cayes (Merçant) and also Cavaillon areas

Then again thats just Southern Haiti. Im sure lands near Plateau Central aren't as bad because they are far away from the water. But good luck with Cap areas since they opened the new Hugo Chavez airport. You may have to donate a first born

My moms family is from Les Cayes(Aux Cayes).

 

[Biscayne]

You want them to wave the magic wand and improve the economy?
How old are you?
Look, there is a lot of corruption there. Dont get me wrong. But you find me a government on earth that does not have corruption and i'll slit my wrist right now. I have a knife in hand as we speak (eating).

And as far as foreign produce being imported here is how a lot of it started: Back in the mid 1900s Haiti and Cuba were the major EXPORTERS of cofee and meat products (especially pork). Then the Duvalier years came and as Duvalier was kicking more and more foreigners out the country for trying to influence Haitian affairs that not only drove away investors who were discouraged by their own gvts to stay away but also a lot of countries who used to buy our products were convinced or strong-armed into doing business elsewhere. That took away major part or our income as crops layed there unsold and wasted.

When Duvalier (the son) came into power and started doing business with Americans again. A US senator out of TX took samples of a few Haitian pigs that were affected by Asian swine and convinced Duvalier that all the Haitian pigs had to be iradicated completely and repopulated.
http://www2.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/pigs/gaertner.htm
http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1985/12/ebert-porkbarrel.html

Said senator i believe was involved in approving a lot of development loans we needed and wouldnt approve of the loans until this was done. Jean-Claude like a dumb ass went ahead and completely erased the live stock and erased it with IMPORTED pigs from... Texas. This started a cycle of foreign products flooding the country to the point where they were cheaper than local products and local farmers could not make ends meat thus abandoning farm work.

So that is why i ask you where you are from. A lot of people who grew up in America are very educated and know their stuff but majority get their information from CNN and FOX in bits and pieces and think they understand what goes on in other countries

KET!! Blancs yo, sal!! Ti Djab yo ye oui!!! Those Whites are a bunch of tricksters. But why are we so gullible?

 

[Biscayne]

Who did you expect us to mirror? We fought all 4 European powers (France, Spain, Brits and Deutch). We also further angered the spanish by helping Bolivia. So when they shut us out who were we to turn to?
Our foods, our music all mirror Africans. Most Haitian artists come here and are barely recognized but go to Mozambique and Cameroon and have to fend fans off

True, True. Being the lone free Black entity, in a time where slavery was still the norm in many parts of the Western world, who could we have traded with? We were in a tough situation from the start. And as far as artistry, no doubt about it. Many Haitian artist are HUGE in Africa. Our music is heavily African influenced:

 

[Biscayne]

You brought it up, all I am saying its not a fair comparison. Poverty is no joke anywhere....but I am willing to bet you'd rather be poor in the West than poor in a third world country. I know I do...let's not kid ourselves.

Western poverty is nowhere near third world country poverty or corruption.

But alot of the poverty and corruption in those countries can be traced to racist White foreign policy. Haiti was a SPECIAL case. They'll teach you that Haiti has a caste system, they'll teach you about Haitian savagery and extreme poverty, but won't let you in on the foreign invaders and policy that turned Haiti on its head.

 

[Biscayne]

Appare ntly the colorism divide in Haiti, like most(all) of the west was there from its' beginnings:



But on top of that the management of the country has been piss poor.

Even in the link provided earlier by @Intruder v3.0 about the pigs it reads like a sad story of poor government.

The most important thing or movement to create in Haiti is education. The literacy rate there is really low and if it went up to 80-90% maybe the ppl will spark something..

Haiti had a constant shift of power between dark-skinned rulers, and light-skinned(mulatto) rulers. Petion(although he was Mulatto) still had African roots. How many heavily Black countries in the Caribbean and or Latin America have had at the very LEAST a light skinned(Mulatto) African descended leader? Haiti(like many countries) has colorism issues, but Haiti has ALWAYS had Black leaders. ALL have been dark-skinned or Afro-Euro mixed mulattos.

 

[yardman]

@Intruder v3.0 Those IMF b*stards helped destabilize Haiti further, right?

 

[Yup]

Lmao non-Haitians talking about Haiti. You guys don't understand. It's easy to get money n clout in Haiti unlike America. Just gotta be smart.

Everyone talks about every one this site. Plenty of non black americans speaking on black american issues all the time.

 

[Yup]

Haiti had a constant shift of power between dark-skinned rulers, and light-skinned(mulatto) rulers. Petion(although he was Mulatto) still had African roots. How many heavily Black countries in the Caribbean and or Latin America have had at the very LEAST a light skinned(Mulatto) African descended leader? Haiti(like many countries) has colorism issues, but Haiti has ALWAYS had Black leaders. ALL have been dark-skinned or Afro-Euro mixed mulattos.

My argument is black leaders is not a real indication of anything.

 

[Yup]

i don't know about all that but then i'm not Haitian...haven't all Haitis presidents out the current one been darkskin?.. speaking of which I hear sand cacs(Lebanese and Syrians) make up significant portion of Haiti's elite class despite being like something like 5% of the population.

i think it's ironic and digusting how these camel fukkers hate and treat blacks like trash back home but run to black countries and communities and are treated like kings.

Yup. Try doing that in a syryan or east indian country.

 

[Yup]

It has tho...........you really need to do more research before trying to debate /argue anything

Anyone does not needs to do full research before opening a subject. I opened the discussion. Many people on debates they had not fully researched before speaking on it either

 

[Yaboysix]

I would like to visit Haiti one day.

 

[OfTheCross]

I'm a Haitian-American also, and to echo what Intruder said, many foreigners came to Haiti in the 1900's(mainly men), and reproduced with Haitian women. From what I've gathered from other Haitians , alot of this miscegenation took place in rural parts of Haiti, where big time Euro business men or what have you, would try to set up shop by bringing in their industry. Some of these small towns would have many workers in those businesses. So essentially that White business owner would be the de facto "Papa" of the town, thus giving him leway to marry/have sex with/spread his seed with the local women of that town, thus creating these large mixed-race sub-groups of Half-Black/Half-Euro Haitians.
In particular, there's a big Black/Polish(They call themselves Polonai in Haitian Creole) Community in rural Haiti. There are many light skinned green eyed impoverished Half-Black Half-Polish folks, living in those rural communities alongside dark-skinned Black Haitians who are also impoverished. So you basically have a bunch of light-skinned Haitian Mike Kryzewskis running around in certain parts of Haiti. Some of them have light skinned with Green eyes and pronounced African features and nappy hair. While others half heavy European features. It's quite interesting really:

Those Polish Haitians were mercenaries that wound up staying. They didn't go to take over anything economically and haven't...

i don't know about all that but then i'm not Haitian...haven't all Haitis presidents out the current one been darkskin?.. speaking of which I hear sand cacs(Lebanese and Syrians) make up significant portion of Haiti's elite class despite being like something like 5% of the population.

i think it's ironic and digusting how these camel fukkers hate and treat blacks like trash back home but run to black countries and communities and are treated like kings.

This is what I'm curious about.. I hadn't heard of Haitian Arabs until this thread...

What's the real dynamic there? What money is in it for the Arabs? What benefit is in it for the people? How has the government or people helped the situation of these guys taking over?

But alot of the poverty and corruption in those countries can be traced to racist White foreign policy. Haiti was a SPECIAL case. They'll teach you that Haiti has a caste system, they'll teach you about Haitian savagery and extreme poverty, but won't let you in on the foreign invaders and policy that turned Haiti on its head.

Go on...

 

[OfTheCross]

Id prefer one of the Haitians on here to enlighten but a big issue has been the French vs. Creole debate

Quoted for emphasis..