Giannis Antetokounmpo should now be in the lead for MVP. 🦌

mastermind

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Wilt won the finals in his 3rd MVP season.

It's within the same season, you can't frame it as "before".
No, I can because he won the third MVP before his first finals appearance. You don't want to acknowledge that because you don't want to confront a fault in your BS narrative.
Jordan and Wilt are also vastly superior players to Jokic. You're talking about 2 of the best to ever play the game.
Another one, "my narrative means more than facts. :sadcam:"
Another post where I ramble while ignoring the point because this is what I do across the entire forum, no mater the topic. I am an insecure guy. :sadcam:
 

calh45

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They just need to go ahead and change the award. Just do MVP after the finals. Ring speak has changed the discussion and the NBA can't put that genie back in the bottle.

It's weird to me they made conference MVPs instead of doing an MVP for the entire season and a separate MVP for the finals. They might be the same person, but they could also not be.
 

In The Zone '98

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No, I can because he won the third MVP before his first finals appearance. You don't want to acknowledge that because you don't want to confront a fault in your BS narrative.

The last person to win 3 straight won 2 titles and went all 3 years.

Jokic can have his 3. But he needs some chips before he retires.

The NBA MVP has a different level of prestige to it. Jokic gotta make some Finals. Period.
 

threattonature

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I meam the point is they rarely play without Jokic on the floor right? And vice versa. A small coaching habit like that can have a statistical effect over an 82 game season


This is a good point, Idk how to fact check starting 5 minutes so I gotta take your word for it
That wasn't even a good point. The reason he's only using the starting 5 numbers is because the Kings starting 5 has been damn near completely healthy all season long. The Kings starters have missed a combined 14 games. The Nuggets starters have missed 50+ games. So it makes perfect sense that the Kings starters would have much higher minutes played together.

And speaking of Kings this was an interesting tweet. It's for some reason never brought up how many more touches a game Jokic is using up to put up these stats. He's getting around 25 more touches per game than Giannis and Embiid. So they are nearly as dominant without dominating the ball near as much.
 

Ozymandeas

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Wilt won the finals in his 3rd MVP season.

It's within the same season, you can't frame it as "before".

The argument is around the dominace of winning three in a row. Some are looking for the greatest team success within that time also or to follow soon.

The last person to win 3 in a row went to 3 straight finals.

He’s so dumb. He really thinks it’s the same too.
 

Ozymandeas

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No, I can because he won the third MVP before his first finals appearance. You don't want to acknowledge that because you don't want to confront a fault in your BS narrative.

Another one, "my narrative means more than facts. :sadcam:"

Posting research is a “narrative” :mjlol:
 
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That wasn't even a good point. The reason he's only using the starting 5 numbers is because the Kings starting 5 has been damn near completely healthy all season long. The Kings starters have missed a combined 14 games. The Nuggets starters have missed 50+ games. So it makes perfect sense that the Kings starters would have much higher minutes played together.
How stupid are you to not realize that actually weighs in my favor?

The more a lineup plays together (and stays healthy in the process) the more likely they're going to build chemistry and play with consistency, and that is going to reflect in their plus/minus. Something I wouldn't expect you to understand because you lied about Wiseman have a positive plus/minus with the Warriors. The initial point that I was arguing against was that the Nuggets are supposedly curating their lineups just so Denver's starting lineup can have the best plus/minus, as if they're taking a different approach to every other team, when they're not even in the top-5 for most played starting lineups.

That proves they're not doing something different to every other team.

To layer this even further, Jokic and Brown (their 6th man) have played a total of 1060 minutes this season, which is one of the most-played two-man lineups of any #1 option and 6th man in the league. This proves Jokic is not just playing in lineups with just the starters, but with personnel from the bench too.
And speaking of Kings this was an interesting tweet. It's for some reason never brought up how many more touches a game Jokic is using up to put up these stats. He's getting around 25 more touches per game than Giannis and Embiid. So they are nearly as dominant without dominating the ball near as much.

You don't look at general touches (because they incorporate backcourt touches), you only want to use frontcourt touches, where big men are actually touching the ball to get box score stats. You rarely ever get box score stats by touching the ball in the backcourt as a big man.

Frontcourt touches:

Jokic - 52 per game
Embiid - 52 per game
Sabonis - 47 per game.


Jokic is more dominant than both of them despite touching the ball in the frontcourt at a similar rate. The backcourt touches Jokic gets is him bringing up the ball more often than both of them do to initiate the offense.
 

threattonature

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How stupid are you to not realize that actually weighs in my favor?

The more a lineup plays together (and stays healthy in the process) the more likely they're going to build chemistry and play with consistency, and that is going to reflect in their plus/minus. Something I wouldn't expect you to understand because you lied about Wiseman have a positive plus/minus with the Warriors. The initial point that I was arguing against was that the Nuggets are supposedly curating their lineups just so Denver's starting lineup can have the best plus/minus, as if they're taking a different approach to every other team, when they're not even in the top-5 for most played starting lineups.

That proves they're not doing something different to every other team.

To layer this even further, Jokic and Brown (their 6th man) have played a total of 1060 minutes this season, which is one of the most-played two-man lineups of any #1 option and 6th man in the league. This proves Jokic is not just playing in lineups with just the starters, but with personnel from the bench too.

You too slow to realize that saying their starters don't play the top 5 minutes together doesn't mean shyt due to all their different lineups with games missed. It still could mean they sit their entire starting unit together, just that due to injury it's a different starting unit for some games. So it's disingenuous to only use one starting lineup for them as if that proves anything.

Bruce Brown has started 28 games. So who is to say the majority of his minutes played with Jokic weren't during those games he's started. C'mon you ain't this dumb.

You don't look at general touches (because they incorporate backcourt touches), you only want to use frontcourt touches, where big men are actually touching the ball to get box score stats. You rarely ever get box score stats by touching the ball in the backcourt as a big man.

Frontcourt touches:

Jokic - 52 per game
Embiid - 52 per game
Sabonis - 47 per game.


Jokic is more dominant than both of them despite touching the ball in the frontcourt at a similar rate. The backcourt touches Jokic gets is him bringing up the ball more often than both of them do to initiate the offense.
You definitely full of shyt here. You acting like you talking to somebody that isn't watching games. Jokic often initiates offense from the three point line. How the fukk you gone act like the majority of Jokic's touches come in the front court. He does a lot of backing down from the three point line, or shoots, or pump fakes and drives. You really are sicking in sucking his dikk so hard that you just making up shyt now lol.
 

threattonature

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How stupid are you to not realize that actually weighs in my favor?

The more a lineup plays together (and stays healthy in the process) the more likely they're going to build chemistry and play with consistency, and that is going to reflect in their plus/minus. Something I wouldn't expect you to understand because you lied about Wiseman have a positive plus/minus with the Warriors. The initial point that I was arguing against was that the Nuggets are supposedly curating their lineups just so Denver's starting lineup can have the best plus/minus, as if they're taking a different approach to every other team, when they're not even in the top-5 for most played starting lineups.

That proves they're not doing something different to every other team.

To layer this even further, Jokic and Brown (their 6th man) have played a total of 1060 minutes this season, which is one of the most-played two-man lineups of any #1 option and 6th man in the league. This proves Jokic is not just playing in lineups with just the starters, but with personnel from the bench too.

You don't look at general touches (because they incorporate backcourt touches), you only want to use frontcourt touches, where big men are actually touching the ball to get box score stats. You rarely ever get box score stats by touching the ball in the backcourt as a big man.

Frontcourt touches:

Jokic - 52 per game
Embiid - 52 per game
Sabonis - 47 per game.


Jokic is more dominant than both of them despite touching the ball in the frontcourt at a similar rate. The backcourt touches Jokic gets is him bringing up the ball more often than both of them do to initiate the offense.
AND touches only count when a player is within attacking position. So basically when they are within three point range. It doesn't count when players are dribbling the ball up the court.
 
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You too slow to realize that saying their starters don't play the top 5 minutes together doesn't mean shyt due to all their different lineups with games missed. It still could mean they sit their entire starting unit together, just that due to injury it's a different starting unit for some games. So it's disingenuous to only use one starting lineup for them as if that proves anything.
:mjlol::dead:

Except we know the Nuggets just don't go sit their entire starting lineup for games.

They've only played two games this season without at least two main starters. That's only 3% of their total games this season where they've effectively had their starting unit out. Otherwise, it's been a combination of starters/second unit, where Murray and MPJ have been on load management (Murray has missed 14 games and MPJ 17 games). What's really disingenuous is bringing up this nonsensical talking point of "it could still mean they sit their entire starting lineup together" and not actually looking at the lineups beforehand to see whether this is true or not, otherwise, you're just throwing shyt at the wall and hoping it sticks.

You just can't simply deal with the fact that Jokic has elevated his teammates more than any other player this season and you're desperately reaching for some shyt to manipulate to reaffirm your confirmation bias. You've done this all season. I've witnessed it.
You definitely full of shyt here. You acting like you talking to somebody that isn't watching games. Jokic often initiates offense from the three point line. How the fukk you gone act like the majority of Jokic's touches come in the front court. He does a lot of backing down from the three point line, or shoots, or pump fakes and drives. You really are sicking in sucking his dikk so hard that you just making up shyt now lol.
The three-point is inside the front-court.

What the fukk are you even talking point?

Your dumbass tried to use general touches when it's typically Jokic touching the ball in the backcourt and then passing to initiate the first action of the possession. He rarely brings the ball up right from the backcourt, then backdowns his matchup and attempts a shot or pass that directly leads to a field goal attempt. He's typically making quick decisions where the ball doesn't stick in his hands.

He, Embiid and Sabonis are all touching the ball at a similar rate in the frontcourt.
AND touches only count when a player is within attacking position. So basically when they are within three point range. It doesn't count when players are dribbling the ball up the court.
You need to stop.

Touches count whenever a player touches the ball on the court - it doesn't matter where it is or what situation it is. It's just whenever a player touches the ball at the start of them possessing it. Are you suggesting it's counting touches for each dribble? Otherwise, you'd have the likes of Trae touching the ball 500 times with each dribble. Or are you suggesting touches aren't counted in the backcourt?

A touch is counted whenever they first touch it and then it's counted again when they get the ball back. From every space on the floor.

Jokic touches the ball more in the backcourt than Embiid and Sabonis, which again, rarely ever leads to getting box score stats.

In fact, it's even more impressive that Jokic is as dominant as he is given he touches the ball more times throughout a possession whereas the likes of Embiid and Sabonis might have 1-2 touches and they're getting a potential box score stat out of it. Jokic is running multiple DHO, give-and-go's, touch passes that are the first action of a sequence during any given possession. All his touches are based upon him making quick decisions, multiple times during a possession.
 
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