For Interns, All Work and No Payoff

[Wild self]

IT APPEARS I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG TO CHASTISE @bigDeeOT BROTHER!

*throws self over top rope*

It also downs to people that as time goes on, I slowly prove myself to be correct, brother!

 

[bigDeeOT]

.

 

[NZA]

Using your logic, people shouldn't get into any job market period, because the supply will eventually devalue them. Even though we have a shortage of nurses and doctors, we shouldn't tell people to go into it because the supply will devalue them. EVERY market of employment carries the risk of being saturated. So what are you supposed to tell people?

When the supply actually IS more than the demand, THEN we can tell people to move on to other things. Because think about it, what is the alternative?

Besides that, even when the supply of engineers exceeds the demand, it STILL might make sense to go into engineering because a huge bulk of that supply consists of foreigners. I'm about to transfer to a university in the area and there's a facebook page for the incoming class for each major. In the computer engineering department, literally 90% of the class is indian or asian.

Employers are going to value American employees over Indian ones simply because of the cultural barrier, and no one wants to see their office fill up with a bunch of foreigners. I have this one white friend who applied to be an adjunct professor at a community college. The head of the department gave him the job pretty quick and straight up said a big reason why he was hired was because he was one of the only american applicants for the job.

my logic is that we should not be telling teens to take out loans to go into a field as if it is somehow going to be a ticket to good jobs.the more people that go into it, the more will be getting mediocre results and a bunch of student loan debt.

if anything, we should be putting the financial burden on someone else to make sure we get the workforce we need in the future. we are already dealing with a burst bubble for other degrees, and it's because we told kids to go get all kinds of degrees and it would pay off "cuz it's always better to have any degree over being an HS grad". now that that is failing, we are moving the goal post to STEM, but what do we do then when we have a bunch of broke kids in that field too?

if foreigners can do the jobs by the boatload, then you really wont be able to compete for very long since they will be cheaper (your anecdote not withstanding). they are probably saving entry level stuff for indians, and eventually the only americans making decent wages will be the elite STEM students. the average will be screwed.

my own anecdote is that i know a chemistry grad who, last i heard, was working at a call center for AT&T U-verse with a starting pay of $12 hourly

how about we nip this boom and bust cycle in the bud?

 

[ReggieFlare]

If only a few can excel mathematically its because you grew up despising mathematics so your brain didn't develop anything in that area. Just like if you don't grow up to learn two languages as a young kid, it's a lot harder to do when you're older.

Personally I believe MANY people can excel in it mathematically. It will just take a lot of developmental math classes to get you up to speed. Stop trying to make excuses for everything. There will be no "makeover" of the system. We are living in the world we're in now and nothing about it is going to change in the near future. You gotta do what you can to succeed. If you don't want to be an engineer because it hurts your brain to multiply 70 *21 in your head then I guess you have to accept your fate as a ditch digger, or worse, an unemployed person.

The problem I see is that if we are to shift our focus to science and mathematics, we would probably be back at square one but on the other side of the spectrum. There would be saturation of STEM and we'll have built a society that is not naturally "geared" towards the humanities, recreating the initial problem. That scenario may actually may be better than the way things are now, but it doesn't seem like a long term solution to me. Ultimately, I think the problem lies in capitalism itself...there needs to be a revamp of the current system if we really want to solve this issue of unemployment.

 

[Wild self]

The problem I see is that if we are to shift our focus to science and mathematics, we would probably be back at square one but on the other side of the spectrum. There would be saturation of STEM and we'll have built a society that is not naturally "geared" towards the humanities, recreating the initial problem. That scenario may actually may be better than the way things are now, but it doesn't seem like a long term solution to me. Ultimately, I think the problem lies in capitalism itself...there needs to be a revamp of the current system if we really want to solve this issue of unemployment.

Exactly. Imagine studying in STEM and busting your ass for a job that is no longer available due to oversaturation? The cycle of "hot jobs" need to come to an end.

 

[bigDeeOT]

Read the thread dude I've already addressed that argument multiple times.

 

[Serious]

I know how to multiply very well and done well at math (until pre-cal). .

that's just the beginning

 

[Serious]

Ultimately, I think the problem lies in capitalism itself...there needs to be a revamp of the current system if we really want to solve this issue of unemployment.

you're not hinting at some redistribution of wealth program are you? @DEAD7

 

[Wild self]

that's just the beginning

Trust me, all the math teachers at that level were foreign and their teaching skills were piss poor. I knew that going through that trauma wasn't worth it and to do that for the rest of my life in some shyt that I hate.

 

[DEAD7]

The problem I see is that if we are to shift our focus to science and mathematics, we would probably be back at square one but on the other side of the spectrum. There would be saturation of STEM and we'll have built a society that is not naturally "geared" towards the humanities, recreating the initial problem. That scenario may actually may be better than the way things are now, but it doesn't seem like a long term solution to me. Ultimately, I think the problem lies in capitalism itself...there needs to be a revamp of the current system if we really want to solve this issue of unemployment.

Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with it, unless your talking about the perversion of it that we have in place today?

Its the structure of our welfare state thats the problem. It encourages complacency, and needs to be reworked to resemble the swedish/singapore model...

 

[BreezyH]

The college system has created this problem. They've fed the corporate complex with young, eager, free workers and these companies are happy to exploit them. You can't graduate these days without doing internships for credit and all the internship posts state that you must receive credit in order to apply.

 

[Wild self]

The college system has created this problem. They've fed the corporate complex with young, eager, free workers and these companies are happy to exploit them. You can't graduate these days without doing internships for credit and all the internship posts state that you must receive credit in order to apply.

Exactly, and how shyt changes so fast these days, you can never get it right. When I was in high school over 10 years ago, all they told me to do is graduate with a degree and get hired to anywhere. Then after the recession started, they said that you needed to major in STEM after I got my degree after I got a job with it . Tomorrow, it will be another major. That is why when people tell you things, I take it as a load of shyt, especially these crooks called educators.

 

[Huellz Santana]

the wild shyt about this is that once you start getting paid you can do whatever.

i make good money and there are so many people that hit me up for jobs because I've built up a desired skillset and a reputation of credible workmanship. all I have is an engineering degree. so when I read reports like this I'm like ... It really is supply and demand. the problem is that you gotta get your foot in the door first.
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[Huellz Santana]

Why is it that such a higher percentage of asians and indians can get into STEM fields but so few americans can? I suspect its because the culture here doesn't push towards those kind of ambitions like asian and indian cultures do.

because it doesn't vibe with our culture. we're more creative and artistic than Asians and Indians. (India is part of the continent Asia btw. ) I'm an engineer myself, and believe it or not, we need creative types. it's what keeps America at the forefront of innovation. Asia is good at copying or making things more efficient, I don't deny that.

Going forward, I'll be interested to see the impact of all this. will people level-set their expectations of what a meaningful life is? will less people go to college? I doubt it. it just seems like people will take on more debt just to create the facade of the live they told themselves they were going to have when they were younger.​

 

[Motife43]

Exactly, and how shyt changes so fast these days, you can never get it right. When I was in high school over 10 years ago, all they told me to do is graduate with a degree and get hired to anywhere. Then after the recession started, they said that you needed to major in STEM after I got my degree after I got a job with it . Tomorrow, it will be another major. That is why when people tell you things, I take it as a load of shyt, especially these crooks called educators.

See, we're feeling the downside of the shyt the baby boomers learned. My mom's generation (HS c/o 1976) was taught by their blue collar parents, "go to college, get a degree, learn about them new fangled computers, you'll make good money and get a job right out of college." That shyt was true for them, and they passed it down to us. But, shyt is totally different now. EVERYBODY is going to college and not everybody is informed about the dangers of student loans, the job situation, and applying their skillset. People think getting a degree from [insert for profit college here] will get them a nice paying job.

I'm a product of a non-STEM major people laugh at, Mass Communication, and I was a bit perplexed when I didn't get a job after I graduated (2012). I wasn't making real bread until April last year, damn near a year after I graduated. I'm not in the field I want to be, but I'm making 3x the amount of money my fellow mass comm grades make out the gate. Sometimes, landing a gig outside your desired field doesn't hurt as a starting point.

In summation, a degree isn't a golden ticket anymore.