Five Bleak Facts on Black Opportunity

[Poitier]

>I don't have to give you evidence, just take me at my word

Its up to you to read about how post war America was shaped by the concept of suburbia and how that impacted the concepts of courtship.

Here is another fun fact...."dating" as we know it is also a product of post war suburbia.

 

[DrX]

"But but but fukk talking about economic s, we wanna chase p*ssy "

- typical coli nikka

 

[AJaRuleStan]

Its up to you to read about how post war America was shaped by the concept of suburbia and how that impacted the concepts of courtship.

Here is another fun fact...."dating" as we know it is also a product of post war suburbia.

Your back at progression 1 of this debate -- trying to argue that what the nuclear family phrase defines didn't exist in reality pre the term being coined, but that's nonsensical. There is no way you can prove that the social structure type of couple and their dependent children wasn't a thing until the 40s.

Let's just cut the bullshyt out, we know nuclear families existed pre 1940s. Anybody with an IQ over room temperature knows that to be a fact. So what the argument really boils down to is this, what family structure was prevalent among blacks pre-1960s. You're claiming two things on this front

1. blacks, for the most part, did not have family structures that met the criteria to be perceived as a nuclear family.

2. Marriage and Illegitimacy(well you ignore this) stats have no correlation with a particular family structure, so the evidence wheywhey posted is invalid.

all i'm asking for is just one real word example of #2, and I swear to god, I will admit my L and shut the fukk up. Just give me the data.

 

[Poitier]

Let's just cut the bullshyt out, we know nuclear families existed pre 1940s. Anybody with an IQ over room temperature knows that to be a fact.

And so did suburbs, factory based jobs, social security and public education....you assume a lot and it doesn't reflect well on your intellect.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

And so did suburbs, factory based jobs, social security and public education....you assume a lot and it doesn't reflect well on your intellect.

Wtf have I assumed? I have literally been asking you for empirical evidence for your claim that marriage and illegitimacy(my bad, you totally ignore that part) fail at testing for certain family structure types for like two pages now.

When did empiricism become code for rationalism? Just give me the evidence, I swear to god i'm reasonable person. I will accept my L and walk away once i'm refuted by the facts.

 

[Poitier]

Wtf have I assumed? I have literally been asking you for empirical evidence for your claim that marriage and illegitimacy(my bad, you totally ignore that part) fail at testing for certain family structure types for like two pages now.

Marriage isn't a measure of family structure. This is my last time telling you this nor was the nuclear family the standard the norm for most of history (and still isn't in many parts of the world).

Anyways, this conversation is irrelevant to the thread, so I'll let you throw a fit about your warped idea of history.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

Marriage isn't a measure of family structure. This is my last time telling you this nor was the nuclear family the standard the norm for most of history (and still isn't in many parts of the world).

Anyways, this conversation is irrelevant to the thread, so I'll let you throw a fit about your warped idea of history.

>spent a dozen or so post referencing Marriage+Illegitimacy together.
>he still pretends that illegitimacy wasn't mentioned.

If anybody wants to know why Poitier refuses to argue with facts just read this:

The current most widespread African American family structure consisting of single-parent has historical roots dating back to 1880.[9] Data from U.S. Census reports reveal that between 1880 and 1960, married households consisting of two-parent homes were the most widespread form of African American family structures.[9] Although the most popular, married households decreased over this time period. Single-parent homes, on the other hand, remained relatively stable until 1960 when they rose dramatically.[9] A study of 1880 family structures in Philadelphia showed that three-fourths of black families were nuclear families, composed of two parents and children.[10]

In New York City in 1925, 85% of kin-related black households had two parents.[10] When Moynihan warned in his 1965 report on the coming destruction of the black family, however, the out-of-wedlock birthrate had increased to 25% among blacks.[8] This figure continued to rise over time and in 1991, 68% of black children were born outside of marriage.[11]

 

[wheywhey]

I probably should have elaborated. I wasn't claiming that marriage has always been on the back burner for blacks. It's just that when I hear "nuclear family", it implies the husband as the sole breadwinner, a stay at home wife, and their 2.5 kids, maybe living in a house somewhere in suburbia. In other words, a family centered around a single married couple and their children.

My understanding was that historically, an extended family setup was more of the norm for blacks. Which wouldn't be incompatible with couples being married. It would just mean that a couple was more likely to live with other relatives besides their own children.

I agree. I'm sure on the farm extended family did live together and help with the labor. That's how it was with my family. I've never heard of too many black housewives from back then, city or country, unless it was a well-to-do preacher's wife or the occasional doctor's wife.

 

[Poitier]

>spent a dozen or so post referencing Marriage+Illegitimacy together.
>he still pretends that illegitimacy wasn't mentioned.

If anybody wants to know why Poitier refuses to argue with facts just read this:

The current most widespread African American family structure consisting of single-parent has historical roots dating back to 1880.[9] Data from U.S. Census reports reveal that between 1880 and 1960, married households consisting of two-parent homes were the most widespread form of African American family structures.[9] Although the most popular, married households decreased over this time period. Single-parent homes, on the other hand, remained relatively stable until 1960 when they rose dramatically.[9] A study of 1880 family structures in Philadelphia showed that three-fourths of black families were nuclear families, composed of two parents and children.[10]

In New York City in 1925, 85% of kin-related black households had two parents.[10] When Moynihan warned in his 1965 report on the coming destruction of the black family, however, the out-of-wedlock birthrate had increased to 25% among blacks.[8] This figure continued to rise over time and in 1991, 68% of black children were born outside of marriage.[11]

http://users.pop.umn.edu/~ruggles/Articles/AHR.pdf

We can both cite stuff!

 

[Poitier]

I agree. I'm sure on the farm extended family did live together and help with the labor.

You do realize extended families aren't nuclear families.

Goggle family 1950.... the rest is up to yall.

 

[LEEeveryday]

Change yourself ...Change the world

 

[Art Barr]

Ok...so how do we fix it?

They have a system built on applied knowledge so we won't be able to fix it.

That is what people don't get.


Art Barr

 

[AJaRuleStan]

You do realize extended families aren't nuclear families.

Goggle family 1950.... the rest is up to yall.

Nice, moving the goal post until you find an argument you can win. Pathetic. Even if I were to grant you that there is some meaningful differences between extend and nuclear, the end results is still the same. Mass Single female families, which is viewed as a sign of dysfunctional culture, wasn't the result of slavery. In other words, you have completely missed whew's whole point when he touched on the increase of female headed house holds.

I assume him, and myself included, view "Culture" as the ingredient to success for a group, so if that's true, than the family unit represents the "Cultural Glue". Norms, behaviors, attitudes, and traditions can successfully be passed generation by generation depending on the state of the family unit. If you look at history, it has shown that dysfunctional cultures have a strong relationship with single, young, out of wedlock mothers. And the opposite is made for successful cultures with them having strong family units. And that's why this new argument your presenting is in fact MEANINGLESS, because both Extend&Nuclear is non-single female. They both have lead to the same result of a strong family presence. There is no fukking difference in this context, and you know it.

Again read what whew cited

It was not until 1950 that there was a noticable increase in female headed households. The author in the above link thinks that it was due to urbanization. He may be right, there would be a wider selection of potential new partners in the city compared to the country.

The black family declined rapidly starting in the 1960s with the sexual revolution, civil rights/women able to get decent paying jobs, feminism, no fault divorce in the 1970s, welfare.

Making some point about extended families doesn't change the substance of the discussion. It's an irrelevant red-hearing, so you don't have to look bad from all the ether I have been handing out on you itt.

Also, you didn't actually post any numbers on this extended family claim either. What? Did you think I was gonna read thru a 20 page pdf to find your evidence? Burden of proof is on you. Not like it would even matter for this discussion, but, just on principle, cite your gotdamn evidence.

 

[Poitier]

Even if I were to grant that there is some meaningful differences between extend and nuclear,

Did you think I was gonna read thru a 20 page pdf to find your evidence?

Thats why I posted the synopsis, dumb fukk

 

[AJaRuleStan]

Thats why I posted the synopsis, dumb fukk

>Can't refute, so he just shytposts