Five Bleak Facts on Black Opportunity

[Poitier]

wheywhey has provided empirical data on the subject.

No, she posted marriage rates. Learn the difference.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

No idiot, I'm saying most family structures were anything like a nuclear family pre WW2.

>The nuclear family did not even exist post slavery - Poitier

And I'm saying, if you're serious about testing that claim, the empirical evidence that wheywhey provided will ether that argument, real quick.

 

[Poitier]

>The nuclear family did not even exist post slavery - Poitier

That statement still holds moron.

Getting married has nothing to do with family structure.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

That statement still holds moron.

Getting married has nothing to do with family structure.

>Getting married has nothing to do with family structure

Oh, I'm gonna have some fun with this.

Explain to me, explicitly, why using Illegitimacy and Marriage stats is an inaccurate method for measuring the "nuclear family" prevalence among a group/culture using it's definition, "A nuclear family or elementary family is a familygroup consisting of a pair of adults and their children. This is in contrast to a single-parent family". Than, give me one real world example of a group with high illegitimacy stats and low marriage rates that somehow have high numbers of nuclear families running around.

 

[Poitier]

>Getting married has nothing to do with family structure

Oh, I'm gonna have some fun with this.

Explain to me, explicitly, why using Illegitimacy and Marriage stats is an inaccurate method for measuring the "nuclear family" prevalence among a group/culture using it's definition, "A nuclear family or elementary family is a familygroup consisting of a pair of adults and their children. This is in contrast to a single-parent family". Than, give me one real real world example of a group with high illegitimacy stats and low marriage rates that somehow have high rates of a nuclear family structure.

This is in contrast to a single-parent family, to the larger extended family, and to a family with more than two parents. Nuclear families typically centre on a married couple;[1] the nuclear family may have any number of children. There are differences in definition among observers; some definitions allow only biological children that are full-blood siblings,[2] while others allow for a stepparent and any mix of dependent children including stepchildren and adopted children.[3][4]

were you dropped on your head? most people lived in extended families pre WW, dumbass.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

This is in contrast to a single-parent family, to the larger extended family, and to a family with more than two parents. Nuclear families typically centre on a married couple;[1] the nuclear family may have any number of children. There are differences in definition among observers; some definitions allow only biological children that are full-blood siblings,[2] while others allow for a stepparent and any mix of dependent children including stepchildren and adopted children.[3][4]

>The nuclear family did not even exist post slavery - Poitier
>Getting married has nothing to do with family structure
>avoided my post completely
>thinks I didn't noitce

You didn't explain why Illegitimacy/marriage stats fail as an indicator for nuclear family prevalence.

You didn't cite any group that has HIGH illegitimacy numbers, and LLOW marriage rates, but still retain a large amount of nuclear families.

You didn't do anything, but ad-hom and re-post the definition that I just posted. I don't understand, if you are right, and i'm wrong than just post the fukking data.

 

[Poitier]

You didn't explain why Illegitimacy/marriage stats fail as an indicator for nuclear family prevalence.

are you dumb? a union between 2 people has nothing to do with their family structure.

Take a hint at you -500 rep and seek a remedial learning course.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

You didn't cite any group that has HIGH illegitimacy numbers, and LLOW marriage rates, but still retain a large amount of nuclear families.

Only every group that ever came to power before the last ~60 years

"Marriage" or the "nuclear family" as we see it today is a very recent occurrence.

"Marriage" is not needed to form a "nuclear family"

And a "nuclear family" is not needed for economic prosperity.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

are you dumb? a union between 2 people has nothing to do with their family structure.
.

>so you're gonna act like I didn't state both illegitimacy and marriage as variables

Again, cite any group that has HIGH illegitimacy numbers, and LOW marriage rates, but still retain a large amount of nuclear families. And I will take my L. Why can't you just cite the data. We can end it right NOW.

 

[Poitier]

Again, cite any group that has HIGH illegitimacy numbers, and LOW marriage rates, but still retain a large amount of nuclear families.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Spatial Paradox]

That's not true. During slavery blacks jumped the broom and did their best to maintain nuclear families. For nearly 100 years after slavery blacks actively formed nuclear families. Most of that time the marriage rate for blacks was higher than that for whites. This despite the fact that there were fewer black men to marry.

For several decades whites were more likely to be single than blacks. Even though blacks were far more likely to be widowed, the percentage of married blacks was nearly the same as whites, occasionally slightly higher.

See Table I for census data on black and white marriage percentages 1890-1920
http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc121e.pdf

It was not until 1950 that there was a noticable increase in female headed households. The author in the above link thinks that it was due to urbanization. He may be right, there would be a wider selection of potential new partners in the city compared to the country.

The black family declined rapidly starting in the 1960s with the sexual revolution, civil rights/women able to get decent paying jobs, feminism, no fault divorce in the 1970s, welfare. In the early 70s black activists and clergy demanded that the government enact tough drug laws which of course further damaged the black family and created a greater man shortage.

Timeline: Black America’s surprising 40-year support for the Drug War

I probably should have elaborated. I wasn't claiming that marriage has always been on the back burner for blacks. It's just that when I hear "nuclear family", it implies the husband as the sole breadwinner, a stay at home wife, and their 2.5 kids, maybe living in a house somewhere in suburbia. In other words, a family centered around a single married couple and their children.

My understanding was that historically, an extended family setup was more of the norm for blacks. Which wouldn't be incompatible with couples being married. It would just mean that a couple was more likely to live with other relatives besides their own children.

 

[Poitier]

It's just that when I hear "nuclear family", it implies the husband as the sole breadwinner, a stay at home wife, and their 2.5 kids, maybe living in a house somewhere in suburbia. In other words, a family centered around a single married couple and their children.

My understanding was that historically, an extended family setup was more of the norm for blacks. Which wouldn't be incompatible with couples being married. It would just mean that a couple was more likely to live with other relatives besides their own children.

Exactly.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

This has nothing to do with what I said.

>The nuclear family did not even exist post slavery - Poitier

That's what you claimed, Wheywhey posted two main points as a counter to said claim, which were marriage and illegitimacy( there was a noticable increase in female headed households - wheywhey)

I'm asking you why are those variables inaccurate for making claims about the nuclear family prevalence among a group, and you only responded to the marriage data, which isn't sufficient. You have to respond to both points.

Than, I asked you to post one empirical piece of evidence were those two variables FAILED to measure for nuclear family prevalence, so I could have some proof of your explanation validity, and you refuse to do so. Just give me the DATA, and I will shut up. How is that unreasonable? Is it not fair to ask for some hard evidence? Just give me the data I ask for, please, just give it to me.

 

[Poitier]

>The nuclear family did not even exist post slavery - Poitier

That's what you claimed, Wheywhey posted two main points as a counter to said claim, which were marriage and illegitimacy( there was a noticable increase in female headed households - wheywhey)

I'm asking you why are those variables inaccurate for making claims about the nuclear family prevalence among a group, and you only responded to the marriage data, which isn't sufficient. You have to respond to both points.

Than, I asked you to post one empirical piece of evidence were those two variables FAILED to measure for nuclear family prevalence, so I could have some proof of your explanation validity, and you refuse to do so. Just give me the DATA, and I will shut up. How is that unreasonable? Is it not fair to ask for some hard evidence? Just give me the data I ask for, please, just give it to me.

stew in your idiocy

 

[AJaRuleStan]

stew in your idiocy

>I don't have to give you evidence, just take me at my word