Fetishzation & Exotization of US Creoles, Louisiana history & People

im_sleep

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More on AA cultural convergence.

Most AA creole foods have some kind of general southern soul food variant of some kind.

Red Beans and Rice is a variation of the Hoppin John dish in the US southern soul food tradition.

Jambalaya is a variation of the Charleston Red Rice dish.

Dirty Rice is a variation of Rice Dressing in the US southern soul food tradition.

Gumbo is a variation of Okra Soup in US southern soul food tradition.

Not to mention all of the other typical soul food dishes are present in new orleans/louisiana cuisine as like grits, cornbread, collard greens, dressing, oxtail, pork bones etc etc.

-------------------------



Architecturally shotgun homes can be found in traditional AAs neighborhoods from Houston, to Louisville, to Florida, to South carolina, North Carolina and even Chicago.

North Carolina

52340bca9c03c4e4e25d9a8e23c6bea3.jpg


Louisville

shotgun.jpg


Jacksonville

shotgun-house-1.jpg


Tupelo, MS

1200px-elvis_birthplace_tupelo_ms_2007.jpg


Lowland SC

shotgun-house-lowland-south-carolina-tony-hood.jpg


Houston TX

0114-top_homes-shotgun_houses_mbbdop.jpg






But, some people act like this is the most uniquely New Orleanian thing in the world. :bryan:
People think Shotgun houses are exclusive to NOLA?
:gucci:

second line goes with the brass band traditions

mardi gras indians is a combination of white mardi gras parade krewes and black cowboy/wild west imagery





yes, those fall under pan-new world black, overlaps in the sense that they all have common african roots but took shape differently depending on regional influences. The pinkster parade of Afro-Dutch America, was something in the same vein

dewulf_cover-copy.jpg
Good shyt, I just started getting up on the Pinkster parade as I been brushing up on slavery in the north.
:ehh:

Now as far as the Mardi Gras Indians I ask because the costumes seem to fall more in line with similar traditions that essentially come from West African influences. I get the Indian references, folklore, etc. but the costumes themselves appear African influenced to me.

Besides, don’t the Mardi Gras Indians predate the Wild West?
 

IllmaticDelta

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Now as far as the Mardi Gras Indians I ask because the costumes seem to fall more in line with similar traditions that essentially come from West African influences. I get the Indian references, folklore, etc. but the costumes themselves appear African influenced to me.

some are more african, and other's are more indian



these look more african inspired



Besides, don’t the Mardi Gras Indians predate the Wild West?

there are few origins stories out there

"One common belief is that local Native American tribes sheltered runaway slaves, and the two cultures merged. Some Mardi Gras Indians claim direct Native American ancestry. Other people believe the intermingling of Native Americans with Creoles, slaves and free people of color in Congo Square brought about the merge. There are also accounts of blacks participating in the Buffalo Bill Wild West shows that traveled through major cities in the late 1800s and being influenced by the costumes. Later, Jim Crow laws barred the Mardi Gras Indian tribes from parading with mainstream Carnival krewes on Canal Street or St. Charles Avenue, so they stayed within their neighborhoods and became solidified."

NPR Choice page
 

Kasgoinjail

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The Igbos and Akan still have their Jonkonnu festival
The Igbo call it Njoku (new moon/yam festival)

And their masquerade is Onkonku


I think there is a really strong link (stronger than I once thought) with the American Creole and the Akan/Fon tribes
The way the managed to preserve their heritage is almost impeccable, thread is solid
 

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Nah, African Americans in New Orleans predate the Haitians who came into New Orleans after the revolution.

To say otherwise would be to say something like..
:ld:"Aren't Haitian people African Americans anyway?" :ld:

...all because small groups of African Americans came to Haiti after the revolution.



Screen-Shot-2017-11-22-at-12.39.56-PM.png
African American emigration to Haiti

In 1824, the New York Colonization Society received a commitment from Haitian President Jean-Pierre Boyer to pay the passage of U.S. emigrants. Boyer also promised to support them for their first four months and to grant them land. The same year, African-American leaders, including wealthy Philadelphia businessman James Fortenand Bishop Richard Allen, formed the Haytian Emigration Society of Coloured People. They arranged for the transportation of several hundred people, not only to Haiti but also to Santo Domingo, the Spanish-speaking western part of the island of Hispaniola that had been conquered by Haiti in 1822.

- Report from Hayti from African Repository and Colonial Journal, Vol. 5 (April 1829)
- Marriage License and Naturalization Documents of American Migrants to Haiti from Williamson Papers
- A Merging of Two Cultures: The Afro-Hispanic Immigrants of Samana, Dominican Republic from Afro-Hispanic Review, vol. 8, nos. 1 & 2 (January and May 1989) by E. Valerie Smith




"Our brethren of Hayti, who stand in the vanguard of the race, have already made a name, and a fame for us, that is as imperishable as the world's history. . . .It becomes then an important question for the negro race in America . . .to contribute to the continued advancement of this negro nationality of the New World until its glory and renown shall overspread the whole earth, and redeem and regenerate by its influence in the future, the benighted Fatherland of the race in Africa."

- Thoughts on Hayti from The Anglo-African Magazine, vol.1, no.10 (October 1859) and vol.1, no.11 (November 1859) by Holly, Theodore




Many Americans, black and white, were opposed to Haitian immigration. Their attacks were not as strong as those against Liberia, mainly because it was a movement initiated, for the most part, by African Americans. In fact, the 1854 National Emigration Convention actually endorsed Haitian immigration. But the opponents of Haiti were numerous. Frederick Douglass, who was opposed to emigration but had finally encouraged the Haitian movement, later abandoned the cause.

Widespread migration to Haiti never materialized. Estimates of the number of African Americans who made the trip range from eight thousand to thirteen thousand, but most returned to the United States. Unlike the situation in Liberia, the island's fairly large but mostly transient African-American community left no lasting evidence of its presence.


- AAME : image




That said some people play it up for various reasons...

  • Because it's actually true that someone in there family was a Haitian emigrant
  • Because they think it adds some kind of legitimacy to [insert cultural activity here]
  • etc etc
Basically there where African Americans already there in New Orleans and some Haitians came with the french who were kicked off the island. Some of those AA & Haitians mixed, some didn't. It's called "creole" to denote a language, cultural, and/or genetic mix in general ....in specific to new Orleans it's typically referring to
  • genetic and by extension cultural mix with french speaking cacs
as opposed to
  • genetic and by extension cultural mix with English speaking cacs

Nothing about the phenomena is particularly stand out in AA history just the group of cacs mixed with. :yeshrug: Some black folks think it makes them special negros because they are mixed with french cacs as opposed to anglo cacs
:mjpls: but that's few and far between so:hubie:
 

IllmaticDelta

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Myth - New Orleans was unique and unlike the rest of the USA with its free class known as gens de couleur libres

giphy.gif


N.O. was unique in many ways, perhaps the most significant for this discussion was that it had the LARGEST community of FREE Blacks in the United States.Largest concentration of non-White (Black) wealth in the entire country in the 19th century.

^^old chatter on the topic


what they called gens de couleur libres in Louisiana/New Orleans was known as "free persons of color" or "free blacks" every where else. No, Louisiana didn't have the most FREE people of color, See map below


NmuXmYG.jpg



5MMcb9g.jpg


Za7F1ig.jpg



pHsHk.png
 
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More on AA cultural convergence.

Cont.

Musically Afr'Am Louisiana creoles also cluster closest to other African-Americans more than anywhere else as well going all the way back to the earliest spirituals known as jure, which was a Louisiana creole variant of the general African-American ring shout.

"to testify,” it was a type of gospel chant that sometimes accompanied a special dance. It such cases it is understood to have been “a localized form of the African-American ‘ring shout,’ consisting of a counterclockwise procession accompanied by antiphonal singing and the shuffling, stamping, and clapping of the dancers, occasionally supplemented by simple percussion such as the ubiquitous metal-on-jawbone scraper or its descendant, the washboard.""

"Utilizing the most basic of sonic devices, the voice and the hand clap, the primary role of juré in the evolution of zydeco is analogous to that of a cappella “Negro spirituals” in the early formation of the secular music called blues.
"
https://gato-docs.its.txstate.edu/jcr:026c6644-b3ab-4380-be71-97a9f309b2ab/Volume_1_No_2_Southeast Texas Hot House of Zydeco.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1ifsxQwgRmt0WESFUWlKTLqbzqE4kTvT1TzK6H3NbfpMCHskCyoSOU_2U



"An earlier song form, juré, evolved from field hollers shared during slavery days, Simien said."
From 'la la music' to zydeco

Field hollers, ring shouts, negro spirituals- All African-American musical forms found in traditional AA LA creole music, that you wont find in other places in the African diaspora like Haiti, Martinique, or Cuba.

Not to mention a large part of black NO and/or Louisiana music isn't of colonial creole origin at all but of post LA purchase domestic slave trade. non-louisiana AA. or ubiquitous among North America slave populations since the colonial era(I believe most blues motifs existed even in colonial Louisiana given the disproportionate amount of senegambians) origin like Ragtime, Delta Blues, Jazz music, Jazz funerals, Second lining, Marching bands, Boogie woogie basslines, black seminole indians etc etc.



Funny story: I had an argument with one of them "creole exoticist" people before and he was tryna claim that the "boogie beat"(boogie woogie walking bassline) was unique to New Orleans due to the caribbean influence.

I was like: :bryan: nikka, that shyt is a modified blues motif from TX, and not even the creole-influenced part, but the Northeast pineywoods part next to Arkansas, North Louisiana and shyt. :mjlol: And came down to houston from via the rail lines and THEN got to New Orleans cuz two brothers from Houston brought it there


"Dr. John Tennison of San Antonio, founder of the Boogie Woogie Foundation, believes brothers Hersal and George W. Thomas were responsible for bringing the Boogie Woogie style from such barrelhouses in East Texas to Houston, and then to New Orleans and Chicago. "
_Boogie Woogie and the Turpentine Camps_

That nikka was like :why: when he found out the truth.

:pachaha:
 
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:jbhmm:

Nothing about the phenomena is particularly stand out in AA history just the group of cacs mixed with. :yeshrug: Some black folks think it makes them special negros because they are mixed with french cacs as opposed to anglo cacs:mjpls: but that's few and far between so

Thing is though anything that happened in both colonial 13 colonies and louisiana, especially as it pertains to that of people of African descent, would've been FAR less impactful than what happened after the US became an independent country and bought louisiana from france to what would become the society of black louisiana today. And keep in mind that colonial louisiana had a much smaller population black and white, slave and free, than even the 13 colonies.

Trying to seperate Afr'Am creoles from other Afr'Ams based on colonial heritage is completely futile when you consider that the post colonial domestic slave trade of slaves from the "old US" to Louisiana was FAR larger the transatlantic slave trade of Africans directly to Louisiana in the colonial era.

Just from 1804-1820 the slave population in Louisiana would boom (from about 25,000 to nearly 70,000 in 1820), "largely from the domestic or inter-state slave trade".

In just New Orleans alone 200K slaves were brought from other states to the city during the domestic slave trade(100K by land and sea each).

^^^^The post LA purchase domestic slave trade to Louisiana completely dwarfed the previous colonial transatlantic slave trade there. And would've had a much larger impact on the slave population there culturally and ancestrally and diffused throughout the entire previous creole slave population rather quickly. The vast majority of African heritage in Louisiana is non-creole in origin even among individuals who are creole(all you need is SOME colonial louisiana heritage and to be culturally acclimated to be creole). The creole part of heritage of gulf coast AAs is simply what gives AA creoles a unique flavor similar to the geechee people of the lower atlantic coast, Afro-dutch heritage of people of the Carolinas and Tri-state respectively, and the indian freedman of the native american nations, not something that takes them out of the fold of being African-American.

Not to mention the other events that shaped the development of African-Americans as an ethnic group which all together also completely dwarf the importation of African slaves to louisiana during the colonial period in terms of magnitude.

- the domestic slave trade

- underground railroad

- reconstruction era black carpetbaggers in the south

- the great migrations of blacks from the south to the north, going back to the earliest exodusters in 1879

- legal and unwritten racial segregation in the US

.
 
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IllmaticDelta

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The vast majority of African heritage in Louisiana is non-creole in origin even among individuals who are creole(all you need is SOME colonial louisiana heritage and to be culturally acclimated to be creole). The creole part of heritage of gulf coast AAs is simply what gives AA creoles a unique flavor similar to the geechee people of the lower atlantic coast, Afro-dutch heritage of people of the Carolinas and Tri-state respectively, and the indian freedman of the native american nations, not something that takes them out of the fold of being African-American.

.

exactly....it's like arguing sojouner truth wasn't afram because her white ancestors/enslavers weren't Anglo but instead, Dutch


Sojourner Truth was Afro-Dutch and spoke Dutch as her first language


BkcQVvr.jpg


ISABELLA was born in the village of Hurley, in Ulster County, New York, about seven miles west of the Hudson River. Hurley (its first Dutch name was Niew Dorp) lies about ninety miles north of New York City and sixty miles south of Albany. The county's original inhabitants were Waroneck (Mohawk) Indians, who called a creek that empties into the Hudson River "Esopus," meaning small river. After much struggle in the mid-1610s that came to be known as the Esopus Wars, Dutch settlers overwhelmed the Indians without entirely displacing them. For more than a hundred years afterward, large numbers of Indians remained in a region that, with the arrival of Africans, would become tri-racial.

A hilly region of frigid, fast-running streams and rivers, Isabella's birthplace belongs to the New England upland of forested mountains, and lies west and slightly to the north of Hartford, Connecticut; Providence, Rhode Island; and Cape Cod, Massachusetts. A cold, rocky place of long winters and short summers, Ulster County is covered with northern flora: spruce, balsam fir, hemlock, red cedar, yellow birch, as well as the oak, hickory, and pine that are found throughout the eastern United States. If she stood in a field with time to enjoy the scenery to the west, Isabella would have been able to see the Catskill Mountains, whose highest peak, Slide Mountain, rises to 4,180 feet.

Ulster County was one of New York's original counties, organized m 1683 and named after the Irish title of the Duke of York. At the turn of the nineteenth century it was overwhelmingly rural, producing wheat that was fair-to-middling in quality and lots of decent wool. When Isabella was born, before the advent of railroads and before New York City became a lucrative market, Ulster County was a backwater. Beautiful in a cold and craggy fashion akin to New England, it was not easy to traverse by road. Travelers used the river or bogged down trying to cross difficult terrain.

In rural counties like Ulster--in the Hudson Valley, on Long Island, and in New Jersey--the culture of local blacks was likely as not to be Afro-Dutch, although some blacks were Afro-Indian. They worked for Dutch farmers in areas where as many as 30 to 60 percent of white households owned slaves. At the turn of the nineteenth century Ulster County's total population was 29,554, of whom more than 10 percent, 3,220, were black people scattered widely across the countryside.

Most slaveholding New York State households owned only one or two slaves; a large slaveowner, like Isabella's first master, might have six or seven at a time, but New Yorkers who owned more than twenty slaves could be counted on the fingers of one hand. In the late eighteenth century, of course, no stigma attached to the trafficker in people, and masters did not hesitate to break up slave families through sale. But all was on a much smaller scale than the southern system of slavery.

Several factors, including the wide distribution of slaves among white families, combined to give rural black New Yorkers a singular culture. The contrast was especially sharp in comparison with southern blacks, often living in much larger homogeneous communities, who developed a vibrant Anglo-African culture revolving around plantation slave quarters. Half of all black southerners lived in communities of twenty or more African Americans, large concentrations that allowed them to learn their culture from other blacks and to create a distinctive way of life.

In New York State, by contrast, there were large numbers of blacks only in New York City. On the farms of rural New York, where slaves like Isabella lived and worked, one or two Africans commonly lived with a Dutch family and remained too isolated and scattered to forge any but the most tentative separate culture. Surrounded by Dutch speakers, rural black New Yorkers grew up speaking the language of their community. A good 16 or so percent, perhaps more, of eighteenth-century black New Yorkers, like Isabella and her family, spoke Dutch as their first language.

Such sound from black folk astonished those who were not from New York. A southern slave, accompanying his owner on a trip to New York, grew frustrated trying to extract directions from an Afro-Dutch woman. To his query about the way to New York, she answered: "Yaw, mynheer," pointing toward the town, "cat is Yarikee." Isabella as a young woman would have spoken in just this way. Over her lifetime she learned to speak English fluently, but she lost neither the accent nor the earthy imagery of the Dutch language that made her English so remarkable.

It is not possible to know exactly how Sojourner Truth spoke, for no one from her generation and cultural background was recorded. Isabella was the slave of the Dumont family from about twelve until about thirty, and many years later the daughter, Gertrude Dumont, protested that Truth's speech was nothing like the mock-southern dialect that careless reporters used. Rather, it was "very similar to that of the unlettered white people of [New York in] her time." As an older woman, Truth took pride in speaking correct English and objected to accounts of her speeches in heavy southern dialect. This seemed to her to take "unfair advantage" of her race.

Living so closely with tigers, Afro-Dutch New Yorkers imbibed other aspects of Dutch culture. If Afro-Dutch New Yorkers went to church--and in the countryside most, like their poor white neighbors, did not--they might join churches that were Dutch Reformed (as did Isabella's oldest daughter, Diana) or Methodist (as did Isabella). In Ulster County in the very early nineteenth century, young Isabella learned the Lord's Prayer in Dutch from her mother, and she may have attended Reformed churches as a child and young woman. This Afro-Dutch world was distinct, first culturally, then economically, from the slaveholding South.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/sojournertruth.htm
 
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IllmaticDelta

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MYTH - Drumming/expression of percussive nature was only found, allowed, and displayed at Congo Square

giphy.gif



Wow you got someone to dap this ignorant ass shyt.

Those videos you posed are military bands. The only place blacks were allowed to play in military bands was cuba and new orleans.

^^^old chatter

Me:

stop it

slave_to_drummer_boy.jpg



Drummer boy of 54th Massachusetts Vol. Infantry Regiment, Reverend Henry Augustus Monroe, knew Frederick Douglass before his enlistment at age 13 (pt. 1)



You could not own a drum in America. Only in New Orleans and Cuba. Period. Once you were free. You had the music flow from the delta northward.

Me:

you're talking about HAND DRUMS and even then they still had them


Steve Smith :: Confessions of a U.S. Ethnic Drummer

MD: Did you consciously put yourself into a scholarly frame of mind to do this project, "Drumset Technique/History of the U.S. Beat"?

STEVE SMITH: That mindset of exploring the history of U.S. music is just something that I've been living for a long time, so I've been in that headspace for quite a few years.

MD: Then this project was merely formalizing something that you've been thinking about anyway?

SS: Yeah, exactly. I guess the place to start is the Vital Information album "Where We Come From." Before we did that album back in 1997 I had spent some time investigating Afro-Cuban music. I realized I could learn the patterns of that style of drumming and I could play it to a degree but I didn't really play it well, in my opinion, because I didn't grow up in the culture. I realized that the best musicians of the genre are literally all from Cuba or Puerto Rico or somewhere in the Caribbean and most of them know the history of their music and culture. This inspired me to focus on the music of my own culture and use that same approach. I had to admit that as a U.S. drummer I didn't know a lot about the origins of my own music. I knew some jazz history and I had lived through '60s rock and the fusion era but I didn't know a lot about early jazz or the early rhythm and blues, blues, country and gospel and all that. And at a point I really started seeing myself as part of a lineage, a U.S. ethnic drummer playing the percussion instrument of the United States -- the drum set.

MD: And that triggered your whole investigation of the past?

SS: Definitely. I wanted to be informed about my own past and what I was connected to. I became very engrossed in learning about the whole U.S. music scene in general and the development of the drum set in particular. So now I really do see myself as a U.S. ethnic drummer that plays all the different styles of U.S. music, not that I'm a unique person doing it because I think there's a lot of guys doing it but they may not have identified themselves as that. It's been helpful for me to think of myself as a U.S. ethnic drummer. It's a bigger perspective than "a jazz drummer" or "studio drummer" or "fusion drummer."


MD: It's like the machine was emulating Gadd, and then the next generation emulated the machine.

SS: Yeah, it's a real twist and a real shift. And so, to me, there's not a lot of new drum vocabulary since the '70s, the emphasis became execution -- perfection. Different music's have developed since then but a whole lot of new vocabulary isn't necessary to play it. You can pretty much recycle everything that developed up until the '70s to play the music. For example, drum 'n bass is basically funk drumming speeded up and hip-hop is funk slowed down. And both come directly from James Brown, it's still essentially the same rhythms and beats that the James Brown bands developed in the '60s and '70s. So even though some things have evolved and changed, it remains the same. Hopefully some new things will evolve but for the most part the lion's share of the vocabulary is already there for drummers.

MD: What were some of the surprises that you had in researching the early years...even the African connection. Were there any revelations about how this music developed as you found out about it in your research?

SS: I think what was significant to me is that in the United States there's no hand drum tradition, which in fact led to the drum set becoming the rhythmic voice of the African American community. Whereas, if history had played itself out differently and let's say we had a hand drum tradition in the United States, the drumset may have never been a necessary invention because we would've had a whole percussive orchestra just with hand drumming. But because of the no-drumming laws that were enforced during the time of slavery, the hand drum tradition that develops directly out of African drumming was squelched in this country. It is true that slaves in New Orleans were allowed to play hand drums once a week at Congo Square. But when you look at that in the scope of how long slavery existed in the United States, which is from the 1500s until the mid 1800s, Congo Square only represents about 40 years in the scheme of things. It began in 1817 and lasted until the mid 1850s. I think in some ways the significance of Congo Square has been a bit overemphasized. Congo Square had the drumming legally but there were other places in Louisiana and all over the South that had the African polyrhythmic percussive concepts still being practiced illegally or underground for the entire history of slavery in the U.S. There's a great book by Dena Epstein called "Sinful Tunes and Spirituals," which is a documentation of everything she could find on the African polyrhythmic concept surviving in the United States throughout the years of slavery. She found that people kept the African pulse alive in many ways such as playing washboards, jawbones, beating sticks on the floor, or stomping their feet on the floor. Even some African hand drums or African styled drums that were made in secret here in the U.S. have been found.

MD: And you make an interesting point in the DVD about the polyrhythmic style of "patting juba" leading to the development of the drumset.

SS: That's another percussion instrument, so to speak, that was developed in the U.S., where the person is playing with feet and hands, incorporating all the limbs just like the drumset. It's an African polyrhythmic concept and it was eventually applied to the drumset, which is the only percussion instrument in the world that uses all four limbs. So in effect, the slaves being deprived of hand drums set the stage for the African American community to embrace the drumset. Without hand drums they were forced to adapt to the European percussion instruments that were available in the1800s, the snare drum and the bass drum, so they were comfortable with the individual instruments that would make up the drumset. I find it real interesting that basically the invention of the drum set is the invention of the bass drum pedal. After that happened in the late 1800s, basically the drum set wasn't used for any other purpose than playing jazz, which was a creation of the African American community. So when people first played the drumset they wanted to play with that concept -- one person playing a snare drum and a bass drum with that African American swing rhythmic concept. The drumset could've just as easily been used in a symphony orchestra but it wasn't. It had some applications in, say, vaudeville and maybe a few situations here and there other than jazz but they never took off as playing concepts. The playing concept that we now take for granted is essentially an African American concept of how to use the instrument. This concept has been so thoroughly assimilated into the culture that most people don't even think about it or question how it came to be. Today the drumset is an instrument that's been accepted all over the world but it is quintessentially a U.S. instrument that developed from our unique history and culture.

Steve Smith :: Confessions of a U.S. Ethnic Drummer (part 1)
 

Juneya

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MYTH - Drumming/expression of percussive nature was only found, allowed, and displayed at Congo Square

giphy.gif





^^^old chatter

Me:

stop it

slave_to_drummer_boy.jpg



Drummer boy of 54th Massachusetts Vol. Infantry Regiment, Reverend Henry Augustus Monroe, knew Frederick Douglass before his enlistment at age 13 (pt. 1)





Me:

you're talking about HAND DRUMS and even then they still had them


Steve Smith :: Confessions of a U.S. Ethnic Drummer



Steve Smith :: Confessions of a U.S. Ethnic Drummer (part 1)

Its so interesting to me, maybe its that you have a photographic memory but bad reading comprehension skills. Its something about your ability to research things and not see how they prove the point of, or even connect to, the conversation. Its like this talent you have.

Everything you posted proves that African drums were not allowed anywhere but new orleans. The development of snare drums and it being american, further proves the point... it definitely does not disprove the fact that they were not ALLOWED anywhere but new orleans.

Sneaking to play drums is not being allowed to have drums. But I'm sure we have been through this already lol. So never mind. Continue to prove your point by twisting facts.
 

IllmaticDelta

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Its so interesting to me, maybe its that you have a photographic memory but bad reading comprehension skills. Its something about your ability to research things and not see how they prove the point of, or even connect to, the conversation. Its like this talent you have.

Everything you posted proves that African drums were not allowed anywhere but new orleans. The development of snare drums and it being american, further proves the point... it definitely does not disprove the fact that they were not ALLOWED anywhere but new orleans.

Dude, this was your quote



Wow you got someone to dap this ignorant ass shyt.

Those videos you posed are military bands. The only place blacks were allowed to play in military bands was cuba and new orleans.

military bands doesn't have shyt to do with african hand drums


sneaking to play drums is not being allowed to have drums. But I'm sure we have been through this already lol. So never mind. Continue to prove your point by twisting facts.

they didn't have to sneak to play military style drums is the point you're missing
 

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MYTH - Drumming/expression of percussive nature was only found, allowed, and displayed at Congo Square

giphy.gif

I mean even with the banning of african hand drums hand percussion still persisted in the African-American tradition with the adoption of Tambourines, especially in the black church.




Then ya got various forms body percussion like hamboning and buck dancing







Then ya got makeshift instrument tradition that involved African-Americans turning household appliances like washboards, tubs, sticks, triangle bells, etc etc into percussive instruments.





Then ya got the tradition of African-American pushing the percussive limits of the piano I think best exemplified by boogie woogie music.



Then ya got African-Americans turning string instruments like the bass guitar into tools of percussion with techniques like slap bass.





Hey, if banning the african drum in north america led to my people developing all of that masterful innovation then I'm glad they did it.
 

IllmaticDelta

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I mean even with the banning of african hand drums hand percussion still persisted in the African-American tradition with the adoption of Tambourines, especially in the black church.



Hey, if banning the african drum in north america led to my people developing all of that masterful innovation then I'm glad they did it.

facts



Washboard
First used by African-Americans, the washboard or "rub-board" is played by moving a fork or thimbles over the board's corrugations to produce a loud, staccato rhythm.

Originally made popular by jug and washboard bands, it is now most commonly found in zydeco music.

Instruments | Nashville, Tennessee | Country Music Hall of Fame








gospel hand claps

 
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