Fact: the first rappers wasnt from da Bronx... they was Pimps down south

[IllmaticDelta]

One thing most people don't realize is that Disco comes from Soul and Funk and before there was a genre known as "Disco", there was no distinction between Soul/Funk and what became known as Disco. The "Disco" tag didn't exist until like 1975-1977. The music or sound that came to be known as Disco was really the soul/funk sounds that were developing beginning in the late 1960's with certain drumming patterns like the Earl Young 4/4 floor with the hissing hi hat sound for example and lusher orchestrations/strings. Im oversimplifying things but

This is a Disco type drum groove





@ 7:16 ..Earl Young on the Disco beat




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Funk was more laid back with harder grooves and not so much four on the floor like Disco.



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[IllmaticDelta]

More on the Disco vs Funk/Breatbeat divide

Alot of the times when you read the old interviews about HipHop history and you see people dissing Disco, they're refering to the watered down/more pop stuff like Village People, Bee Gees, Donna Summer etc..





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When you read what Grand Wizard Theo says here..

you realize that he doesn't/didn't know that people like Kool & The Gang, James Brown, Earth Wind & Fire, Rare Earth,Jimmy Castor got played in those Discos. For example, the Kool & The Gang song below was a Disco banger but it was loved by Bboys in the Bronx because it's Funky

 

[IllmaticDelta]

A look at some of the songs Herc played and you'll see most of these were also played in the Disco clubs outside of maybe Apache

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Nile Rodgers (Chic) on the blurred lines between Disco and Funk/Soul@ 3:58




"When people talk about Disco, the lines are a little blurry to me because infact what ended up being called disco were really just danceable R&B records"

 

[IllmaticDelta]

These also got played at the Disco but these are more Funk than lush Disco

 

[IllmaticDelta]

another way to look at is that all Disco is Funky because Funk is the root but most pure Funk doesn't pass for Disco because Funk isn't lush/orchestrated. To keep it real simple

soul



Funk





Disco




Disco-Funk




Black Disco Dj's spun all those types whereas white disco dj's were more heavy on the pure Disco sound and Disco Funk. Early HipHop Dj's like Herc, spun mostly Funk with some Disco-Funk.

 

[Rakim Allah]

another way to look at is that all Disco is Funky because Funk is the root but most pure Funk doesn't pass for Disco because Funk isn't lush/orchestrated. To keep it real simple

soul



Funk





Disco




Disco-Funk




Black Disco Dj's spun all those types whereas white disco dj's were more heavy on the pure Disco sound and Disco Funk. Early HipHop Dj's like Herc, spun mostly Funk with some Disco-Funk.

That lushness along with drum grooves of a lot Disco are reasons why I'm not big on Disco. Late 70s Disco was just pure . It reminded me of the early 90s with C&C and Music Factory, Snap, Marky Mark & The Funky Bunch and other pop/dance/rap groups like them.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

That lushness along with drum grooves of a lot Disco are reasons why I'm not big on Disco. Late 70s Disco was just pure .

There are some late 70's early 80'sbangers though. The kind of stuff they played at the Garage.

It reminded me of the early 90s with C&C and Music Factory, Snap, Marky Mark & The Funky Bunch and other pop/dance/rap groups like them.

as I said, commercial Disco is the father of that Dance-Pop sound

 

[Rakim Allah]

There are some late 70's early 80'sbangers though. The kind of stuff they played at the Garage.











as I said, commercial Disco is the father of that Dance-Pop sound

I always liked Instant Funk...they brought that Disco Funk. They were a lot edger than a lot of disco in the late 70s to me.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

^^getting back to the lushness of Disco, alot of people don't realize that lush Funk sound originated with Isaac Hayes in the late 60's. He was doing those long extended songs with some almost 20 mins long in the 60's! That's the kind of stuff you get later on with Disco extended mixes.










..then Barry White came along and took the mantle from hayes sound



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Motown even had the lush funk








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gamble and Huff created the Blueprint to disco because their drummer created the disco beat to go along with the lush strings










^^All of those songs came out before there was a genre known as Discobutthese are the actual types of songs being played in the Discos of New York's early 1970's.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

To get back to the point Im trying to make in all of this Disco talk, from the Herc-Beakboys POV, they were mainly dissing and against commercial Disco like the Village People, Bee Jees but if the Disco music was Funky,they made it a part of what they were doing even they didn't consider those songs Disco. Read below on Grandmaster Flash..

This is the song..the break starts around 3:20



24:40 for more on the story

 

[Self_Born7]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^BOTH OF YALL AS WRONG AS ALL GET OUT....also at how BUGS is trying to avoid responding to me...cause he don't wanna get MURKED in his own bumbalaat thread

How do you explain the DEEJAYING???....

all of that comes from the RUB A DUB style of the jamaicans

that DJ KOOL HERC a JAMAICAN HIMSELF brought with him back from JAMAICA..

None of those muthaphuking pimps or even ALI had turntables backing them up when they were "rapping"

but DADDY U ROY of JAMAICA did when he first started in the 50's on a soundsystem....and to this day he IS STILL DOING IT...WHILE ON TOUR:

This

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Great doc with interviews with many of the early pioneers in the 4 elements



These are the most important parts


23:30->49:43 Early Dj's ( pete dj jones, coke la rock, herc, maboya, flowers, disco king mario, baambatta, Kool Dj D)


1:15:45->1:18:40 The Roots of rapping (Last Poets, Gil Scott Heron, Radio DJ, Ali, PIgmeat Markham, Cab Calloway, Hustlers Convention)


1:14:43 (herc and coke la rock )


1:24:14 (description of the herc/pre-melle mel + cowboy style of mcing )

1:24:27 (description of the luvbug star ski/disco style of mcing)


1:24:44 - 1:25:11 (Grandmaster Caz on Dj Hollywood, Luv Bug Starski and Busy Bee styles of mcing. Basically the Rhyming Disco djs vs Bronx crowd dynamic)


1:27:00 (Bronx based, melle mel, cowboy and kid creole style of mcing)

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Promo of radio Dj, Hank Spann from the early 1970's.



You often hear that, the Bronx crowd played hardcore Funk unlike the more commercial stuff on the radio but I hear him playing "Skull Snaps" in the beginning of this video which is a hardcore Funk break

 

[IllmaticDelta]

go to 3:00 mins into the video below to hear herc's take on how mcing or rapping started




@ 22:43 in this video, Herc gives an example of what Coke La Rock and himself were doing on the mic. If you notice, it' freelanced with no actual syncopated rhyming going on