European vs North American description of the Moors

[Poitier]

damn @ the desperation in here

Don't know your own history so make it up brahs.

What is "our" history?

 

[Poppa_Dock]

What is "our" history?

Why is this a question? Get your DNA tested, find out where it comes from, proceed from there.

Don't post a 18th century dutch painting of a black dude with a sword and go THIS IS MY PERSONAL FAMILY HISTORY THIS DUDE CREATED ALGEBRA!!! and make yourself look completely moronic.

 

[Im Kemet Rocky & I like penis]

damn @ the desperation in here

Don't know your own history so make it up brahs.

be direct pimp..

 

[Poitier]

Why is this a question? Get your DNA tested, find out where it comes from, proceed from there.

Don't post a 18th century dutch painting of a black dude with a sword and go THIS IS MY PERSONAL FAMILY HISTORY THIS DUDE CREATED ALGEBRA!!! and make yourself look completely moronic.

Who did that in this thread? Quote them.

DNA testing doesn't identify at the tribe level or at the micro level so I'm not sure what that accomplishes... Black Americans come from many African tribes mixing immediately off the boats and later, mixing with the other Black diasporas that immigrated here.

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

Why is this a question? Get your DNA tested, find out where it comes from, proceed from there.

Don't post a 18th century dutch painting of a black dude with a sword and go THIS IS MY PERSONAL FAMILY HISTORY THIS DUDE CREATED ALGEBRA!!! and make yourself look completely moronic.

This is silly... who the fukk said that? Nobody.. cept maybe me... but I'm half Moroccan... they're saying it's black history which it is. Plus a DNA test reveals only a bit of information. This is black history hence the thread.

 

[Ikwa]

@Chesirecatdaddy would you say modern day Moroccans are Berbers, Arab or Black? What about the people of Western Sahara?

 

[Poppa_Dock]

This is silly... who the fukk said that? Nobody.. cept maybe me... but I'm half Moroccan... they're saying it's black history which it is. Plus a DNA test reveals only a bit of information. This is black history hence the thread.

If you have your family history documented then you wouldn't need DNA if you had questions. For those who unfortunately don't have that information if you are interested in knowing about your ancient family history that would be a good starting point to at least flesh out what spot on the globe your DNA comes from or is most common. This is obviously more of a islamic/arab historical issue than a "black history" issue as well. The thing is that lots of african american do not know their history therefore they like to crowbar themselves into these points in history where they see "black people" referenced. So for example a painting of a group of dark skinned men drinking tea, nobody knows what it is, where it is, who they are, gets turned into a bunch of african kings sitting around plotting european destruction. Then a narrative about how black people invented everything on earth and the white man stole it all gets started, then all of a sudden isaac newton is useless and he stole all his ideas, and a bunch of these kemet/hotep tribe of judah dudes come in continue on this narrative of smart dumb nonsense. This is fine and doesn't harm anybody, but i personally just don't let retarded discussions like that go unchecked because it's blatantly false.

Of course saying that i get painted like a white person coming in trying to do the opposite, and snatch away a bunch of history from black people and give it to white people which isn't the case im just trying to bring reality to the discussion.

 

[Swagnificent]

Did the Greeks and Romans constantly refer to Germanic tribes as "white tribes, white people"? No, they called them barbarians, savages and used such words however the Berbers constantly refer to sub-saharan tribes as Black. If the Berbers were predominantly black themselves they would have used other words to differentiate themselves from sub-saharan Africans. This is common sense cotdammit.

I've brought many examples of Berbers clearly differentiating themselves from sub-saharan tribes, you're attempt to explain that is laughable to be honest.

The Greeks considered themselves FUNDAMENTALLY different than the germanic tribes. Whether or not they used the terms white to describe them or not is beside the point. I wanna instead of focus on this and ask you why you find this to be critical? why does the fact they differentiate themselves make them NOT black?

You claim to be Somalian correct? Could you please tell us about Somalians views on other "sub-saharan tribes"? Are there disparaging words in your language for other blacks? Do Somalians consider themselves different? This is rhetorical because I already know the answer. YOU DO (if you really are Somalian). Now are Somalians NOT BLACK because they distinguish themselves from other "sub-saharan tribes"? I'd like to get your answer to this because if you think Somalians are NOT black, then we can just end our discussion.

Your arguments are fallacious and laughable. While I showed you clear documentation from europeans and arabs on the ORIGINAL BERBERS being black skinned and with wooly hair, you keep coming back to this non-sequiters. Whether or not the Berbers considered themselves the same or different from the southern african tribes is as irrelevant to their blackness as whether or not somalians consider themselves different to other sub-saharan tribes.

 

[Poitier]

So for example a painting of a group of dark skinned men drinking tea, nobody knows what it is, where it is, who they are, gets turned into a bunch of african kings sitting around plotting european destruction. Then a narrative about how black people invented everything on earth and the white man stole it all gets started, then all of a sudden isaac newton is useless and he stole all his ideas, and a bunch of these kemet/hotep tribe of judah dudes come in continue on this narrative of smart dumb nonsense.

Who said that in this thread?

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

@Chesirecatdaddy would you say modern day Moroccans are Berbers, Arab or Black? What about the people of Western Sahara?

Well they are Arabized berbers... genetically they have very little arab blood from what recent findings show...some have more than others... lots of from yemenite tribes... Being that they are berbers you can find many different colors... but the darkest are those from the south the Saharawites and the Taureags... it's a mixed bag since the kingdom has been united forr a very very long time... and that would've included Mauritania (lots of black looking folks) as well but it doesn't thanks to the Spanish (this is why it's in such disarry today). Most People are tan.. but in everyones family you'll find light to dark.. I got two dark aunts and one aunt who is a redhead with green eyes... everyone else is in the middle... I'm actually one o the lighter ones and I'm half Haitian LOL.. go figure.

The thing you also gotta understand is the poltical climate... King Hassan 2 and Mohammed 6 pushed Arabic culture hard to keep shyt in line... but as a result the original Amazigh/berber culture suffered... it wasn't taught in school anymore .. they had no more presence onthe radio.. ppl started calling themselves arab.. it was a political chess move (king hassan 2 survived 14 assasination attempts).

Now we have King Mohammed VI and shyt is different.. he built off of what his father did but he's totally diff. He identifies and pushes Berber culture and language... it's on TV... it's taught in school.. people are proud of it and less and less people refer to themselves as Arab. He's pushing Morocco and not Arabism and linguistic helps with that in 15-30 years it will cause a huge change. All of what I said also applies to french (2nd most popular language in morocco).

So to answer the question, it's mixed,but Moroccans identify via nationality.

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

If you have your family history documented then you wouldn't need DNA if you had questions. For those who unfortunately don't have that information if you are interested in knowing about your ancient family history that would be a good starting point to at least flesh out what spot on the globe your DNA comes from or is most common. This is obviously more of a islamic/arab historical issue than a "black history" issue as well. The thing is that lots of african american do not know their history therefore they like to crowbar themselves into these points in history where they see "black people" referenced. So for example a painting of a group of dark skinned men drinking tea, nobody knows what it is, where it is, who they are, gets turned into a bunch of african kings sitting around plotting european destruction. Then a narrative about how black people invented everything on earth and the white man stole it all gets started, then all of a sudden isaac newton is useless and he stole all his ideas, and a bunch of these kemet/hotep tribe of judah dudes come in continue on this narrative of smart dumb nonsense. This is fine and doesn't harm anybody, but i personally just don't let retarded discussions like that go unchecked because it's blatantly false.

Of course saying that i get painted like a white person coming in trying to do the opposite, and snatch away a bunch of history from black people and give it to white people which isn't the case im just trying to bring reality to the discussion.

Islam is a religion... arab is a culture/language.... Black is a racial classification bruh... people here are talking about black history.. they're not saying yo I'm a moor... we know that most AA's and caribs come from west africa... and west africa was touched by the moors... they even ran the empire for a bit.

the 2nd half of what you're stating sounds similar to a cac narrative that pushes out that disconnect between AA's and powerful kingdoms from Africa. You're taking away from people like Van Sertima and Diop...as if they are smart dumb nikkaz who only based everything they said off paintings.

The Isaac newton shyt is irrelevant and yes white people did steal... but who cares about them ...this aint about them.

 

[Swagnificent]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me when the whitewashing (with dates) of the Berber happened. I gave you detailed evidence of the Berber Dynasties from the time they ruled Southern Spain to present day. Dates, sources, everything. Even cross checking them with quotes by the explorer Ibn Battuta. Bring me the evidence, real evidence, not the BS you've been posting about Germanic tribes. I want to know when and what caused the whitewashing of the Berbers.

you keep ignoring this post that I've made like 2 times already. it answers the question of the whitewashing of the berbers. and its made by a european during the 1800s.

http://www.africanark.org/berbersandmoors.html

According to James Prichard, Kabylia was a name of the mountainous areas of the north of Tunisia and Algeria and included those speaking the dialects called Showia. (See Researches into the Physical history of Mankind. Vol. II, 1851, p. 20) Colonial observers actually mention two distinct peoples of Kabylia, plus those who were a mixture between these. The ones described as dark brown and near black were said to live in Numidian type huts of the ancient Berbers called "Magalia". Others were of a different culture and appearance, quite fair in color, and according to recent scholars dress themselves and make jewelry and pottery like that of the early and modern inhabitants of the Balkans, Greeks and ancient Vandals. These fair skinned populations of the Algerian Kabyle area who speak the Berber dialects have palm prints and blood groupings which link them directly to the European peoples of the southern Mediterranean and are thus largely descendants of ancient and modern Europeans and Turks who have absorbed Berber or Kutama blood. Unlike the early matrifocal Berbers and modern Tuareg, they have also been documented as the most patrifocal people in Africa. (Algeria: A Country Study, 1985) The darker-skinned Kabyle groups mentioned above - "their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black" - are those whose origins belong to the ancient Berbers but, are almost never spoken of by modern observers. As stated by the colonialists, their culture is very different. Their dancing, for example, with rapid shoulder movement resembles that of modern Ethiopians and Eritraeans.

the white berbers are descendants of the europeans from the balkans, greece, and the vandals. the original black berbers resemble and are similar culturally to the ethiopians and eritereans. when did the absorption of whites into north africa happen? I don't know exactly but it was definitely before the 1800s and probably no earlier than the middle of the first millennium (mainly because of all those quotes from the Romans and Greeks I posted a couple of pages back describing the berbers as black during the 1-4 century AD).

 

[Im Kemet Rocky & I like penis]

If you have your family history documented then you wouldn't need DNA if you had questions. For those who unfortunately don't have that information if you are interested in knowing about your ancient family history that would be a good starting point to at least flesh out what spot on the globe your DNA comes from or is most common. This is obviously more of a islamic/arab historical issue than a "black history" issue as well. The thing is that lots of african american do not know their history therefore they like to crowbar themselves into these points in history where they see "black people" referenced. So for example a painting of a group of dark skinned men drinking tea, nobody knows what it is, where it is, who they are, gets turned into a bunch of african kings sitting around plotting european destruction. Then a narrative about how black people invented everything on earth and the white man stole it all gets started, then all of a sudden isaac newton is useless and he stole all his ideas, and a bunch of these kemet/hotep tribe of judah dudes come in continue on this narrative of smart dumb nonsense. This is fine and doesn't harm anybody, but i personally just don't let retarded discussions like that go unchecked because it's blatantly false.

Of course saying that i get painted like a white person coming in trying to do the opposite, and snatch away a bunch of history from black people and give it to white people which isn't the case im just trying to bring reality to the discussion.

be direct nikka..

 

[Knicksman20]

Islam is a religion... arab is a culture/language.... Black is a racial classification bruh... people here are talking about black history.. they're not saying yo I'm a moor... we know that most AA's and caribs come from west africa... and west africa was touched by the moors... they even ran the empire for a bit.

the 2nd half of what you're stating sounds similar to a cac narrative that pushes out that disconnect between AA's and powerful kingdoms from Africa. You're taking away from people like Van Sertima and Diop...as if they are smart dumb nikkaz who only based everything they said off paintings.

The Isaac newton shyt is irrelevant and yes white people did steal... but who cares about them ...this aint about them.

I wouldn't even call him bruh Ches because his post revealed who he really is.

 

[Chesirecatdaddy]

I wouldn't even call him bruh Ches because his post revealed who he really is.

crazy that he'd pick the name pappa dock too lol