European vs North American description of the Moors

[Swagnificent]

If race doesn't exist then what are you arguing about?

Europeans didn't base their characterizations of superiority/inferiority on the "skin color" of peoples, that's absurd...they based them on what they believed certain groups of people had accomplished. Europeans always admired civilizations like Egypt and India (who were dark skinned) that's why they tried to claim them as white. They considered other groups of africans to be inferior because they didn't believe they had civilizations worth talking about....it had nothing to do with the fact that they were "black."

all this black/white shyt is for the birds.

First of all, what I meant was race doesn't exist in a biological sense. It does, however, exist as a social construct. Hell the entire history of black people in America has been controlled by our race. And this argument is to say that the moors, ancient berbers, and ancient egyptians were CLEARLY within the American social construct of blackness. They were in fact MORE BLACK than many people in America that are within the black racial category.

On the issue of Europeans and their opinions about Egypt and Africa, we have to be SPECIFIC about which Europeans we are talking about. Europeans before the 1800s considered Egypt to be a quintessentially black african empire. Every reference to the race of the Ancient Egyptians by the Greeks and Romans was of them being black. In addition, the notion that africans are inferior is relatively new. In fact, before the slave trade, the only mentions of africa or black people were usually on good terms.

Our contention is not with the Europeans of the past. Our contention is with all the post 1800 europeans who have changed what their ancestors said about egypt, africa, and black people. Its clear that modern europeans have changed history to fit into the relatively NEW worldview of white superiority. We just want to put history back where it used to be before racist cacs changed it.

 

[↓R↑LYB]

this is a picture and news clipping about the barbary pirates. as you can see from the news clipping, this riff pirate was off the seaboard of Morocco. and he is CLEARLY black.

That picture doesn't mean he was black. They drew him in black ink because it was customary during those times to draw people from foreign nations in black ink to represent the unknown

 

[Constantine]

These are some depictions of the black Moors that entered Europe from North Africa have survived. There seem to be more depictions of the Moors that resided in the Iberian pennisula with light complexions then there are of dark complexioned Moors. That's not to say the majority of the Moors had dark, or light complexions, because its going on 1400 years since they entered the penisula. You also have to understand that there were multiple waves of migrations into the penisulia from North Africa of varying hues, and a lot of miscegnation occured in the penisulia which would over the course of nearly seven hundred years change the complexions of the citizens. But it appears, and from what I've read the dark complexioned Moors were a size able miniority, 10 to 40 percent. I've said this before, that trying to over estimate the number of blacks who resided in the penisulia is just as ignorant as whites who try to minimize the ones who were there. I also see no reason why the Iberians in the past would try to diminish the role that dark complexioned Moors played in their society, especially since most of the depictions of Moors we have come from the native Iberians. If they really didn't like blacks, why would they depict them at all? They could've easily left them out of their paintings. Europeans had been depicting dark skin Africans for eons in there art through ancient Greece, the Etruscans, Roman, Medieval, and Renassiance eras. There are lots of blogs, and books devoted to the subject.
http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2013/04/afro-iberia-blacks-in-medieval-and.html
http://www.economist.com/news/books...ean-artists-were-fascinated-africans-hue-were
If anyone can show me where the Iberians displayed color prejudice towards dark complexioned Moors at the time I would be happy to read it. For the record I'm black.

 

[Malik]

Europeans didn't base their characterizations of superiority/inferiority on the "skin color" of peoples.

Seriously bruh?

If race doesn't exist then what are you arguing about?

Europeans didn't base their characterizations of superiority/inferiority on the "skin color" of peoples, that's absurd...they based them on what they believed certain groups of people had accomplished. Europeans always admired civilizations like Egypt and India (who were dark skinned) that's why they tried to claim them as white. They considered other groups of africans to be inferior because they didn't believe they had civilizations worth talking about....it had nothing to do with the fact that they were "black."

Europeans most definitely did think Africans were inferior because of their skin color. See.....there was this thing going on in the 1700s called the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. I don't know if you read about it. But Europeans came into Africa and forced millions of Africans into bondage and servitude over in the New World. To justify this action, Africans had to be painted as animals, savages and uncivilized people. So yes, anyone with black skin was demonized. And anyone with white skin idolized. The fact you even fix your mouth to say otherwise is The problem they faced.............was that they found out Egypt became blacker and blacker the further they went back into the earlier dynasties before it became mixed. One of the greatest civilizations was started by blacks. The same group they labeled monkeys, apes and savages. It went against their notions of African/Black inferiority. They faced the same problems with the Moors and the Berbers. That's when these groups suddenly became white/mixed/non-African. Every great thing Africans did, Europeans tried to make those peoples distinct from other Africans. It wasn't that Blacks didn't accomplish anything. Its that anything that was accomplished, Whites snatched away. It would be like somebody snatching Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece away from Europe. Without those two civilizations, cac history would look pretty bleak. After Rome fell, yall went into the Dark Ages for a thousand years. And technically people would be in the right.......because the same logic you use to separate Egyptians from the rest of Africa because they were a little lighter could be said about the Greeks and the Romans because they were little darker than most Europeans.


In short, fukk outta here.

 

[Im Kemet Rocky & I like penis]

I believe the moors were of varied complexions/appearances, if you want to consider them black it doesn't matter one bit to me. Like I said, "race" wasn't a factor back then the way it is now.

what you believe?...

thats irrelevant we need evidence and sources....

doesnt matter if race was a factor, now thanks to white supremacy in america; race exists as a massive social construct. so basically we'ere claiming black people in a civilization as our own, because apprantly whites can do it but we cant?....

 

[GetInTheTruck]

what you believe?...

thats irrelevant we need evidence and sources....

doesnt matter if race was a factor, now thanks to white supremacy in america; race exists as a massive social construct. so basically we'ere claiming black people in a civilization as our own, because apprantly whites can do it but we cant?....

Claiming people who wouldn't claim you is an effort in futility.

 

[Im Kemet Rocky & I like penis]

Claiming people who wouldn't claim you is an effort in futility.

thats what cacs do

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Seriously bruh?



Europeans most definitely did think Africans were inferior because of their skin color. See.....there was this thing going on in the 1700s called the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. I don't know if you read about it. But Europeans came into Africa and forced millions of Africans into bondage and servitude over in the New World. To justify this action, Africans had to be painted as animals, savages and uncivilized people. So yes, anyone with black skin was demonized. And anyone with white skin idolized. The fact you even fix your mouth to say otherwise is The problem they faced.............was that they found out Egypt became blacker and blacker the further they went back into the earlier dynasties before it became mixed. One of the greatest civilizations was started by blacks. The same group upon they labeled monkeys, apes and savages. It went against their notions of African/Black inferiority. They faced the same problems with the Moors and the Berbers. That's when these groups suddenly became white/mixed/non-African. Every great thing Africans did, Europeans tried to make those peoples distinct from other Africans. It wasn't that Blacks didn't accomplish anything. Its that anything that was accomplished, Whites snatched away. It would be like somebody snatching Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece away from Europe. Without those two civilizations, cac history would look pretty bleak. After Rome fell, yall went into the Dark Ages for a thousand years. And technically people would be in the right.......because the same logic you use to separate Egyptians from the rest of Africa because they were a little lighter could be said about the Greeks and the Romans because they were little darker than most Europeans.


In short, fukk outta here.

Except Europeans didn't view Egyptians and the Africans they enslaved as being from the same stock of people even though they were both dark skinned African peoples, you're proving my point. They viewed the Africans they enslaved as an inferior people based on what what they perceived to be their lack of a glorious history and accomplishment like that of the Egyptians. Like I said, skin color had very little to do with anything.

you guys always want to bring up ancient Greece and Rome and how it relates to white people but neglect to mention how much those two societies influenced present day western civilization which has been the basis for white domination of the planet for hundreds of years now. Ancient Egypt didn't have nearly the same effect on the rest of Africa as Greece and Rome did on Europe.

 

[Malik]

Except Europeans didn't view Egyptians and the Africans they enslaved as being from the same stock of people even though they were both dark skinned African peoples, you're proving my point. They viewed the Africans they enslaved as an inferior people based on what what they perceived to be their lack of a glorious history and accomplishment like that of the Egyptians. Like I said, skin color had very little to do with anything.

No....you're proving my point. Ancient Egyptians are just as African as West, South and East Africans. The languages, cultures and customs may differ but, its all Africa. Europeans tried to divide Egypt from the rest of the continent because Egypt was the crown jewel of the ancient world. And acknowledging a Black/African Egypt went against their notions of African inferiority.


If what you say is true.....and it isn't.....but let's say it is true......that Europeans perceived the other Africans as inferior because of "a lack of a glorious history and accomplishments" (which is incredibly offensive) and not due to the color of their skin. If that's true, then why did Europeans hide and suppress the Black African origins of the Ancient Egyptians? If skin color had nothing to do with it, then it shouldn't have been no problem for Europeans to acknowledge that Black Africans founded Egypt

 

[GetInTheTruck]

First of all, what I meant was race doesn't exist in a biological sense. It does, however, exist as a social construct. Hell the entire history of black people in America has been controlled by our race. And this argument is to say that the moors, ancient berbers, and ancient egyptians were CLEARLY with the American social construct of blackness. They were in fact MORE BLACK than many people in America that are within the black racial category.

On the issue of Europeans and their opinions about Egypt and Africa, we have to be SPECIFIC about which Europeans we are talking about. Europeans before the 1800s considered Egypt to be a quintessentially black african empire. Every reference to the race of the Ancient Egyptians by the Greeks and Romans was of them being black. In addition, the notion that africans are inferior is relatively new. In fact, before the slave trade, the only mentions of africa or black people were usually on good terms.

Our contention is not with the Europeans of the past. Our contention is with all the post 1800 europeans who have changed what their ancestors said about egypt, africa, and black people. Its clear that modern europeans have changed history to fit into the relatively NEW worldview of white superiority. We just want to put history back where it used to be before racist cacs changed it.

Arguing about what the Moors, Egyptians, or Berbers would be considered today is useless. We know they weren't white, who gives a fukk.

Can you link me to some European sources from the pre-1800's praising the societies in other parts ofAfrica with the same admiration as they did Egypt?

 

[Swagnificent]

I believe the moors were of varied complexions/appearances, if you want to consider them black it doesn't matter one bit to me. Like I said, "race" wasn't a factor back then the way it is now.

racism is so ingrained in you that even in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence, you cacs still play this game.

I'll ask you one simple question: If the Moors were transported into modern-day America and given modern clothes, what race would most people consider them?

all we're saying is if they were here, they'd be considered black.

just like their TRUE descendants still living in africa

 

[GetInTheTruck]

No....you're proving my point. Ancient Egyptians are just as African as West, South and East Africans.

This is true and I never claimed they weren't African.

The languages, cultures and customs may differ but, its all Africa.

languages, cultures, customs, tribes, and ethnicity are what divided people back then. Skin color or racial classification was not a factor.

Europeans tried to divide Egypt from the rest of the continent because Egypt was the crown jewel of the ancient world. And acknowledging a Black/African Egypt went against their notions of African inferiority.

This did that because Ancient Egypt influenced Europe MORE than it did Africa. Isn't that ironic?

If what you say is true.....and it isn't.....but let's say what you say is true......that Europeans perceived the other Africans as inferior because "a lack of a glorious history and accomplishments" (which is incredibly offensive) and not due to the color of their skin. If that's true, then why did Europeans hide and suppress the Black African origins of the Ancient Egyptians? If skin color had nothing to do with it, then it shouldn't have been no problem for Europeans to acknowledge that Black Africans founded Egypt

You're right, it is incredibly offensive. That's why I find it laughable that you guys go so hard at cacs when it was cacs who taught you to bestow ancient Egypt with more admiration than any other African society. You're on Egypt's dikk because Europeans were on Egypt's dikk.

 

[Malik]

This is true and I never claimed they weren't African.



languages, cultures, customs, tribes, and ethnicity are what divided people back then. Skin color or racial classification was not a factor.



This did that because Ancient Egypt influenced Europe MORE than it did Africa. Isn't that ironic?




You're right, it is incredibly offensive. That's why I find it laughable that you guys go so hard at cacs when it was cacs who taught you to bestow ancient Egypt with more admiration than any other African society. You're on Egypt's dikk because Europeans were on Egypt's dikk.

You didn't answer my question. You said the other, non-Egyptian Africans were perceived as inferior by Europeans because they didnt accomplish anything great. Not because of their black skin. So, if skin color didn't matter, and it was solely due to merit, then why did Europeans try to hide the Black origins of Ancient Egypt?

 

[GetInTheTruck]

racism is so ingrained in you that even in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence, you cacs still play this game.

I'll ask you one simple question: If the Moors were transported into modern-day America and given modern clothes, what race would most people consider them?

all we're saying is if they were here, they'd be considered black.

just like their TRUE descendants still living in africa

I can't say for sure and neither can you. Some may be considered black, sure, others may be more ambiguous

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

racism is so ingrained in you that even in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence, you cacs still play this game.

I'll ask you one simple question: If the Moors were transported into modern-day America and given modern clothes, what race would most people consider them?

all we're saying is if they were here, they'd be considered black.

just like their TRUE descendants still living in africa

Dominican!