If she had dropped out and endorsed Bernie before ST, Bernie would have won more states, thus increasing the chances of a progressive agenda actually being enacted.
Elizabeth Warren HQ: She's Got A Plan!
- Thread starter King Kreole
- Start date
If she had dropped out and endorsed Bernie before ST, Bernie would have won more states, thus increasing the chances of a progressive agenda actually being enacted.
He's obviously a progressive whether or not he's a socialist. I don't think its accurate to call him a socialist by the definition I grew up with but the definition has become pretty fluid so use whatever you want.
I'd say FDR and MLK were more socialist than Bernie but that doesn't mean you can't call them progressives too.
It's seems Bernie supporters want it both ways some times.
If you accept that he has made progressive ideas part of the mainstream of the Dem party then one should be able to accept that he might not be the best or only person who can carry it out.
I only wish that someone would have said something like this last year.
Oh wait, I did.
I think the fluidity of the term is detrimental to the actual advancement of Progressive policies.
That's by design. Conservatives and centrists have worked to fukk up the term as much as possible in order to muddy the waters. That's why you've seen Bernie over his history sometimes reject the term and sometimes embrace it and try to remove the stigma and sometimes just ignore it, because it's just hard to know how to move when they do shyt like that.
I consider socialism to be the dissolution of private ownership of significant capital/the means of production, and "socialism" as a stand-alone term as it's used in America more specifically means state control of the means of production. I've seen no sign he wants that.
However, once you start adding words to it, like "cooperative socialism", you could legitimately argue that Bernie is a socialist of a sort, in that his long-term goal would probably be worker/collective ownership of the means of production and he's pushed for tiny steps in that direction. But for the most part that's not his platform at all.
Personally I'm fond of libertarian socialism, but that is completely unrecognizable from what "socialism" is referred to today and so far from our current systems that I feel like it would just confuse people if I called myself a socialist.
I'm not against Liz, that's why dummy.
I guess libertarian socialism (if I'm interpreting you properly) and democratic socialism seems too optimistic to me, especially in the digital age, in that it relies on people being selfless and valuing their community over their personal well being. It's a nice thought, but one of the many trends of post-industrial society has been the breakdown of community in America; it's common that people don't even know their neighbors anymore.
Either way, I think saying that socialism and progressivism are interchangeable is playing into conservatives hands more than anything. Progressivism seeks to make progress on the Liberal model whereas socialism condemns it. That's not a small difference, in my opinion, in a country that is built on Classical Liberalism.
The majority of the specifics in Bernie's vision (healthcare, free college, etc.) can easily be framed in a Progressive Liberal (e.g., pro-Capitalist) argument in the 21st century. I think Bernies use of the word socialism has made him just popular enough to be relevant, but never popular enough to win. Arguing for those things through a Progressive lens would alienate far less people.
Last edited:
they're SO humble on twitter right nowI’m sorry, but it’s pure hilarity in that Bernie thread with them crying out for a warren endorsement and extending olive branches to her supporters, you know, the
fail to expand your base brehs and then need the voters who actually vote democratic
If elected, Joe Biden would be, on paper, the most progressive president in history.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
I mean in the context of 2020. There's a difference between having a seat at the table vs looking in from outside the window. I don't see this as infighting, I'm just trying to see things strategically. I still think she'll endorse Bernie btw.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
I haven't seen any proof of this.
honestly, warren could run again and still be younger than everyone in the race
Again, Ralph Nader and Barney Frank were warning people about how poorly he works with others.
Dude is terrible.
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
ST was a non starter, she at least deserved to compete in her home state. She had tons of donors in some of those states and there was the hope of consolidating some of the woman first Amy support and college educated Pete support. It didn’t work, so NOW, yes, there is a case for her to drop, but the idea that she should’ve done it for ST needs to stop.