Elizabeth Warren HQ: She's Got A Plan!

[Piff Perkins]

M4A is financially unfeasible and the minute you admit to raising taxes on middle people, you lose. "...But your insurance premiums go to zero" is not a good retort. People tune out the minute they hear taxes will go up on them.

This is a losing policy that will NEVER happen in the US and democrats are idiots for allowing Sanders to drag them here. At this point I'm not convinced Warren is running to win the presidency.

 

[Wargames]

M4A is financially unfeasible and the minute you admit to raising taxes on middle people, you lose. "...But your insurance premiums go to zero" is not a good retort. People tune out the minute they hear taxes will go up on them.

This is a losing policy that will NEVER happen in the US and democrats are idiots for allowing Sanders to drag them here. At this point I'm not convinced Warren is running to win the presidency.

She got baited into it, but she is trying to win the primary first.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Warren up 3 in SC
Sanders down 2 in SC
Biden down 6 in SC

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[rapbeats]

Tying yourself to a healthcare proposal that (i) eliminates private insurance and (ii) covers undocumented persons -- when both positions are unpopular to neutral with Democrats -- is an untenable position to be in if you plan on winning the primary and election. This idea that you can just ignore the fact that loss aversion is a powerful motivator is really a poor campaigning strategy.

Ted Kennedy's vision for Medicare-For-All was one that included private insurance. There are examples of better healthcare systems around the world that are mixed.

However, Warren supports the single-payer and she's been shytting on multi-payers. As long as this isn't her priority (ie she doesn't waste any significant amount of capital on a losing fight) I really don't care if she runs on it. The legislative landscape doesn't change because a hyper-competent person is the one pushing for it, c00ns et al will tell her to shove it and she will still lack leverage.

I'd rather focus on the climate crisis, anti-corruption, voting rights, and statehood (PR, if they want it, & DC), lowering prescription drug prices, housing, and student debt. Then push for single-payer when there's a stronger majority and it's been on the collective conscious longer. Two years is all we're guaranteed, better make them count when a recession is on the way.



Keep in mind that Obama was likely referring to the Kennedy/Dingell bill. Bernie people don't have a monopoly on the use of the term.

you're afraid of the real fight. i get it. yes we have too many issues that we need to tackle. but this one aint one that i'm willing to let go of or push to the side. its the #1 cause of bankruptcies. you hear that?
THEE reason people are filing BR. healthcare can and is BREAKING people. if you fix that, you have fixed other financial problems for a lot of households. we're not just talking about poor people, we're talking about true middle to upper middle. to even slightly rich folks. You mess around and have a family member or yourself end up with some weird health issue or whatever and bam you can lose millions of dollars or 100's of thousands of dollars. i didnt get that from some think tank. I work in the industry, i've seen the actual Claims going out for 40k here, 30k there, 80k here... like what the hell? who has that kind of doe? straight up breaking people with those bills.
undocumented people are on our system now anyway. and they are getting emergency care, which costs way more than preventative care. but trying to use a small portion of society as an excuse not to fix something thats broken for most americans is silly/bad logic.

M4A or bust.

 

[rapbeats]

The real Tulsi Info. no she aint no russian stooge. and if she was, shame on hil and the dnc for putting her in that chair position before she quit a few years back.

but this is the hole truth about tulsi. i aint riding with her for all of her policies. i just ride with her on no regime change wars. I'm not going to vote for her as my president though. but i still aint vibing with old lady hillary for popping off at the mouth with false info trying to use old shady tactics like they use to use against black folks and others who didnt agree with their vietnam war. call em russians or communist and make everyone else think they have the plague. whether or not its true..doesnt matter. just smear them.

 

[King Kreole]

you're afraid of the real fight. i get it. yes we have too many issues that we need to tackle. but this one aint one that i'm willing to let go of or push to the side. its the #1 cause of bankruptcies. you hear that?
THEE reason people are filing BR. healthcare can and is BREAKING people. if you fix that, you have fixed other financial problems for a lot of households. we're not just talking about poor people, we're talking about true middle to upper middle. to even slightly rich folks. You mess around and have a family member or yourself end up with some weird health issue or whatever and bam you can lose millions of dollars or 100's of thousands of dollars. i didnt get that from some think tank. I work in the industry, i've seen the actual Claims going out for 40k here, 30k there, 80k here... like what the hell? who has that kind of doe? straight up breaking people with those bills.
undocumented people are on our system now anyway. and they are getting emergency care, which costs way more than preventative care. but trying to use a small portion of society as an excuse not to fix something thats broken for most americans is silly/bad logic.

M4A or bust.

...how? how do you do M4A?

 

[intra vires]

M4A or bust.

Politicians who are fine with the status quo or just making mild improvements have every incentive to just walk away if they think you're operating in bad faith and running game. That's true if there wasn't a "viable" alternative to Sanders' bill; however, that alternative makes his "bargaining position" even weaker.

Like I said, your ilk doesn't know or care how policymaking works. You already exposed yourself earlier so I don't know why you're quoting me with these tirades as if I'm going to read them. Like the politician from earlier, I can just walk away because there's no substantive value in this "dialogue" for me.

...how? how do you do M4A?

A long-winded version of:

EDIT: Oops looks like he's going to be voting for Gabbard after Sanders fails to win the nomination.

 

[Wargames]

Warren/Gillum 2020



I just want to speak that into existence

 

[rapbeats]

...how? how do you do M4A?

what do you mean how do you do it? you have multiple countries around the world. you have examples of medicare right here, medicaid, the VA, etc. this aint rocket science. just because its not the usual thing we've done doesnt mean we should just keep doing the same bad thing and not try something different that seems to work financially for these other countries as well. the for profit healthcare system will never work for most of us. its not designed to. its designed to rake in record profits. thats it and thats all. its designed to deny the most expensive claims and to have healthy people pay premiums for a service they will rarely use. its called Insurance my friend.

your car insurance works the same way. disability insurance works the same way(they literally give incentive bonuses to have their reps deny claims). its like the reverse of a sales rep. you get more money for finding ways to deny someone because thats their money maker and business model. there's nothing to fight here. if you're not the type that want your citizens to be taken care of. thats you. i'm different. M4A or bust.

 

[rapbeats]

Politicians who are fine with the status quo or just making mild improvements have every incentive to just walk away if they think you're operating in bad faith and running game. That's true if there wasn't a "viable" alternative to Sanders' bill; however, that alternative makes his "bargaining position" even weaker.

Like I said, your ilk doesn't know or care how policymaking works. You already exposed yourself earlier so I don't know why you're quoting me with these tirades as if I'm going to read them. Like the politician from earlier, I can just walk away because there's no substantive value in this "dialogue" for me.


A long-winded version of:


EDIT: Oops looks like he's going to be voting for Gabbard after Sanders fails to win the nomination.

nope sorry. i dont play those games. never was in the tulsi camp as president. i liked her for what shes good at. no regime change wars. i dont need her as president to pull that off.

you can walk away all you want. thats your choice. so can a politician. but if their voters start feeling the bern and realizing what they are and who they are up against. you wont be back in office the next term. which is the way politics are supposed to work. right now its big money people and companies using their tools to help brainwash the voters into believing that big money people and corporations way of doing business is best for them when in reality its only about whats best for the business. the moment THE PEOPLE figure that out the game changes. Which is why you need a sanders type of person in there. to wake the people up who are still asleep. This is not new we did this before his name was FDR. if you re -read the history behind what happened and what lead to how he governed you will realize we are literally in a loop and we're back at that same exact point again where there's way too much wealth inequality and the pitch forks are starting to come out. You keep going this corporate first route, and we'll end up looking like these other countries with people wilding out in the streets and people getting violent more often than we've ever seen in our life times.


Truth is, why should anyone listen to your types? You guys were the ones in here in 2016 popping off at the mouth how bernie didnt have a movement and couldnt move the needle. well we now know your types were completely wrong about that. the entire dem primary debates are about bernie-esk, progressive-esk policies. every question asked is a question basically coming from the corporate media trying to see what these other centrist are going to say about a bernie like policy.

When the entire scouting report is about how to take you out you are michael jordan. that fear coming from the corporate media as well as the big money baller class. says they themselves believe in you. meaning they are afraid that you will do what you say, meaning you will be able to rally the people to wake up and get things passed or push out those politicians they feel are not doing things in their best interest. If bernie and his policies were not feasible as you guys suggest there would be ZERO fear. the same way the old green party candidates would pop up then disappear because no one believe what they were talking about would move the needle. bernie has been there and done that moving of the needle. there is legit fear from the baller class. that alone tells you he's capable of doing what he says he would like to do. only dummies that have a few pennies can't see that.

 

[King Kreole]

what do you mean how do you do it? you have multiple countries around the world. you have examples of medicare right here, medicaid, the VA, etc. this aint rocket science. just because its not the usual thing we've done doesnt mean we should just keep doing the same bad thing and not try something different that seems to work financially for these other countries as well. the for profit healthcare system will never work for most of us. its not designed to. its designed to rake in record profits. thats it and thats all. its designed to deny the most expensive claims and to have healthy people pay premiums for a service they will rarely use. its called Insurance my friend.

your car insurance works the same way. disability insurance works the same way(they literally give incentive bonuses to have their reps deny claims). its like the reverse of a sales rep. you get more money for finding ways to deny someone because thats their money maker and business model. there's nothing to fight here. if you're not the type that want your citizens to be taken care of. thats you. i'm different. M4A or bust.

No, I don't mean how do you set up and run an M4A system, I mean how do you get M4A passed into law? The numbers aren't there. Our disagreement isn't around the value or moral necessity of M4A, I'm questioning your M4A or bust stance when there is no viable path towards M4A at this moment. So, bust?

 

[rapbeats]

No, I don't mean how do you set up and run an M4A system, I mean how do you get M4A passed into law? The numbers aren't there. Our disagreement isn't around the value or moral necessity of M4A, I'm questioning your M4A or bust stance when there is no viable path towards M4A at this moment. So, bust?

you have to do what he said he would do. there is no reason to "wonder". he told you what he would do. will it work? we shall see.

Here's the thing, all bs politics aside. The people have to want it bad enough to force their politicians/representatives to vote for it no matter dem lefty, dem middle, right middle, repub righty. doesnt matter. If you're a republican voter in kentucky and you're cool with your teeth falling out because you havent seen a dentist since you were 6 years old. thats on you. if you're not cool with that and you know there needs to be substantial change made. you will get off your a... and bang out your reps about it and if they do not comply, you will vote for new ones that will. its real simple. if the corporations can put in enough money and influence to change those teethless folks from kentucky's minds. so be it. we gave it the good old college try. the people once properly presented with m4a, i said properly presented with it. They want it. so they are going to have to Prove it. dont talk about it, be about it. we shall see. again, this aint rocket science.

The people back in FDR's day was ABOUT IT. thats how you got all the unions we had up until recently, thats how you got that redistribution of wealth back into the hands of the people. not just a ton of money going to a small fraction of our country. its up to the people to get it done. bernie as we see at the moment cant get THE PEOPLE to do things they dont normally do. that is truly his biggest or most positive attribute.

if he was any other politician, i would be saying the same things you guys are saying. He's all talk and no actual action because it will never happen since he doesnt know how to move the voters nor does he have the politicial numbers in congress to pull it off.

I want you to understand something, m4A with no private companies involved is not just going against republican politicians its going against dem centrist politicians. so even if we had the blue numbers it would still be a climb/uphill battle to get this approved. so he would still need the same people movement to pull it off.

What is bernie? He's literally a community organizer. all he's doing is getting people together to fight for their own interests/rights. thats it and thats all. No frills.



and even if it doesnt get past this time around. you have him set the groundwork for it to pass in the near future.

Remember people, m4a was a cuss word just a few years ago. so was the ACA. That hilary healthcare bill that got shot down back in the day was the start of the ACA getting run, the ACA getting run was the start of M4a, bernie running in 2016 was, a boost to the m4a discussion. if bernie tries but fails but if you pay good attention and you see more fight from the people than ever before. remember, the same hilary healthcare bill thing and how hard they shot that down and how we ended up with the ACA years later. so when i say m4A or bust. i mean whoever we get in there has to push it like that. no bending on that at all. there is no compromise for that at all. no b*stardized version of it either. die trying basically. i'm a realist i know i will never get everything i want in one swoop. but i can break the ground to get it a lot sooner than later or never.

 

[King Kreole]

you have to do what he said he would do. there is no reason to "wonder". he told you what he would do. will it work? we shall see.

Here's the thing, all bs politics aside. The people have to want it bad enough to force their politicians/representatives to vote for it no matter dem lefty, dem middle, right middle, repub righty. doesnt matter. If you're a republican voter in kentucky and you're cool with your teeth falling out because you havent seen a dentist since you were 6 years old. thats on you. if you're not cool with that and you know there needs to be substantial change made. you will get off your a... and bang out your reps about it and if they do not comply, you will vote for new ones that will. its real simple. if the corporations can put in enough money and influence to change those teethless folks from kentucky's minds. so be it. we gave it the good old college try. the people once properly presented with m4a, i said properly presented with it. They want it. so they are going to have to Prove it. dont talk about it, be about it. we shall see. again, this aint rocket science.

The people back in FDR's day was ABOUT IT. thats how you got all the unions we had up until recently, thats how you got that redistribution of wealth back into the hands of the people. not just a ton of money going to a small fraction of our country. its up to the people to get it done. bernie as we see at the moment cant get THE PEOPLE to do things they dont normally do. that is truly his biggest or most positive attribute.

if he was any other politician, i would be saying the same things you guys are saying. He's all talk and no actual action because it will never happen since he doesnt know how to move the voters nor does he have the politicial numbers in congress to pull it off.

I want you to understand something, m4A with no private companies involved is not just going against republican politicians its going against dem centrist politicians. so even if we had the blue numbers it would still be a climb/uphill battle to get this approved. so he would still need the same people movement to pull it off.

What is bernie? He's literally a community organizer. all he's doing is getting people together to fight for their own interests/rights. thats it and thats all. No frills.



and even if it doesnt get past this time around. you have him set the groundwork for it to pass in the near future.

Remember people, m4a was a cuss word just a few years ago. so was the ACA. That hilary healthcare bill that got shot down back in the day was the start of the ACA getting run, the ACA getting run was the start of M4a, bernie running in 2016 was, a boost to the m4a discussion. if bernie tries but fails but if you pay good attention and you see more fight from the people than ever before. remember, the same hilary healthcare bill thing and how hard they shot that down and how we ended up with the ACA years later. so when i say m4A or bust. i mean whoever we get in there has to push it like that. no bending on that at all. there is no compromise for that at all. no b*stardized version of it either. die trying basically. i'm a realist i know i will never get everything i want in one swoop. but i can break the ground to get it a lot sooner than later or never.

I have no doubt in my mind about Bernie's conviction on this issue. My doubt is about the mechanisms of change that M4A needs to navigate on its way to passing, particularly the ideological composition of the Senate and the House. You're essentially speaking about Bernie's plan to get M4A passed - converting Republicans and Centrist Dems to Progressives - which would truly be a revolution in this country. I'm just perhaps more skeptical about the underlying logic and likelihood of this revolution this than you are. I also see a meaningful difference between the current healthcare system, a system with universal coverage under a public option and M4A. So if M4A isn't on the table in the immediate future, I'm not going to say "well fukk it all then", which is what M4A or bust implies.

 

[intra vires]

...

I'm not wasting my time reading that drivel.

I don't care for uninformed opinions, learn how to interpret data and educate yourself on policymaking. If King Kreole is willing to humor your nonsense, then consider bothering him with your incessant whining...

You people need to realize that not all, or in your case any, of your thoughts need to be posted. This forum isn't your personal diary and I'm definitely not your shrink.