Dune 2 - (March 1, 2024)

Piff Perkins

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What is the “story of dune” philosophically?

What’s the message?

The movies make the story seem basic and not complex. Or maybe my standard is high…..

How does the book explore more into the metaphorical?

I think Star Wars story, underlying themes, concepts and dialogue is light years a head of dune. :banderas:

And Star Wars is partly a fun kids movie where as Dune is 100% serious/dark

Dune is basically a story of ONLY “the dark side”
Lucas literally stole a bunch of shyt from Dune though…
 

rabbid

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I honestly also just wish they had said its three parts back when they were hustling us with the whole "idk if we can make part 2 maybe if enough people stream the movie etc." nonsense. i shouldn't have had to wonder when anya taylor joy was gonna reappear. That took a lot of joy out of it for me (pun intended). across the spiderverse for instance told a complete story up until right at the end. a true epilogue. dune 2 was a whole bridge between movies.
 

WIA20XX

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What is the “story of dune” philosophically?

What’s the message?

Herbert was warning people about charismatic leaders. Following them is bad news essentially. But Herbert allegedly meant JFK.

Is that what Denis' interpretation trying to do? I don't know. Not at this point at least.

Others may be sure that the message is the same, but I'm not.

Am I convinced that Paul is manipulating the Fremen as much as Lady Jessica is trying to?

Is he a reluctant tyrant? Or is he the ultimate opportunist?

That is not the sense I got from reading the books, but this isn't the book. Events, plotlines, and characters have been changed.

It is clear to me that the director is telling a different story than what is in the text, but keeps the same spirit of what is in the text. Or does he?

Book fanatics and zealots are so sure of what the message is in the book that they are convinced that it is the same message in the film. They don't leave room for any other sort of analysis.

Given the director's film making style and the nature of film adaptation, I think DV is telling his own story. And because he doesn't like dialogue, prefers to show and not tell - he's leaving his work open to even more interpretation on purpose.
 

DoubleClutch

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Herbert was warning people about charismatic leaders. Following them is bad news essentially. But Herbert allegedly meant JFK.

Is that what Denis' interpretation trying to do? I don't know. Not at this point at least.

Others may be sure that the message is the same, but I'm not.

Am I convinced that Paul is manipulating the Fremen as much as Lady Jessica is trying to?

Is he a reluctant tyrant? Or is he the ultimate opportunist?

That is not the sense I got from reading the books, but this isn't the book. Events, plotlines, and characters have been changed.

It is clear to me that the director is telling a different story than what is in the text, but keeps the same spirit of what is in the text. Or does he?

Book fanatics and zealots are so sure of what the message is in the book that they are convinced that it is the same message in the film. They don't leave room for any other sort of analysis.

Given the director's film making style and the nature of film adaptation, I think DV is telling his own story. And because he doesn't like dialogue, prefers to show and not tell - he's leaving his work open to even more interpretation on purpose.

Was the book all about religion like the movie is? Or was it political?

DV grew up religious so maybe he’s telling his own story but chose to make everyone Muslims instead of Christians.

I don’t see this movie about charismatic leaders as much as it is about helpless sheep deep in their religious traditions and waiting for a “messiah” to the point they create a self fulfilling prophet which in this case seems to be a false one…..according to Zendaya at least

Paul begins to believe his own hype.

I think he’s manipulating the people but has good intentions (which is one of the better themes or the plot). He’s not a believer and is playing with the idea of religion strictly for his own selfish interests and taking it as far as it can go but he doesn’t realize he’s in over his head

It’s like making a deal with the devil

The Mothers are just pure evil. Religious nuts. And they’re using him. :yeshrug:

But I like how he’s showing a society which is inseparable from religion in a bad way

Maybe when the book was written it’s was more influenced by what was going on at the time as well or people interpreted it that way naturally
 

PoorAndDangerous

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I was thinking about this last night, you think Denis was inspired to cast Walken because he was in that fat boy slim music video with the lyrics that reference Dune? Walk without rhythm so you don’t attract the worm


 

nieman

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How could there be an hour missing? :gucci:

The movie was already too long that’s why it’s pacing and flow was kinda off

You think DUNE 2 alone should be cut into 3 parts? :damn:


What am I missing cause I don’t think they could add too much more. The story is kinda simple and predictable by design

And that said, I think most people watch dune for the visuals and NOT a complex storyline or drama (outside of the Zendaya love interest side story)

Scenes jump from one another with no transition, but there has been time lapses. First instance, Paul has to cross the dessert...so they show him being sent out and Chani watching him. Then it skips and Chani is with him, then skips again and they're back in the community. There's so many examples of that, and a lot of the setups are missing. Now if it's not important to show him learning to survive out there, there was no reason to show it to begin with...what to get a scene with no dialog between he & Chani?

Dune isn't actually that simple, which is why it was always deemed unfilmable or better as a series/mini-series.

To answer your other question about the book, the basis for it is entirely political. Overall, EVERYONE has an agenda. So, everyone is using their resources and alliances to gain positioning over the others. It's also favors intelligence over brute strength. "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." The world itself values intelligence, status and manipulation. Even in the fights and wars, there are reasons why certain weapons are never used. Everyone is playing chess, but everyone is on the board, so your pawn is a rook/king/knight in another's game, and a King/Queen in theirs. It is dense though, and wordy. To put in a modern comparison, it's Game of Thrones but if everyone was on the Limitless pill. The overall theme is pretty much to never trust the charismatic "leader" for they all serve themselves. There's also heavy criticism against putting everything into religion. While it does serve as a place of comfort and power, it's easily exploited. The Fremen are pretty much irrelevant to the story. If Leto hadn't died, they would still be used for the same purpose - an alliance to fortify Arrakis and control the most valued resource in the galaxy, and Leto was never on the board as "the chosen one." They're so irrelevant that no one cares about the rest of the planet.

Even with House Atreides, Leto was not married to Lady Jessica. She was his concubine, and he was not married for the sole reason to keep his options open to form alliances with other houses via marriage. In reality, you can figure he was never going to do so, but that was also an option. There are also instances of Lady Jessica having her own plans, using Leto and Paul, but going against the plans of the Bene Gesserit who gave her part of the plan in the first place. And take the "prophecy"; the Bene Gesserit started the prophecy and planted the seeds over generations/centuries until they could create their "Chosen One" with all of the traits they said in the prophecy, just so they had control over everything.
 
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I honestly also just wish they had said its three parts back when they were hustling us with the whole "idk if we can make part 2 maybe if enough people stream the movie etc." nonsense. i shouldn't have had to wonder when anya taylor joy was gonna reappear. That took a lot of joy out of it for me (pun intended). across the spiderverse for instance told a complete story up until right at the end. a true epilogue. dune 2 was a whole bridge between movies.
Part 1 & 2 is one story. They probably should've had a roadshow leading up to the release with both stitched together with an intermission between the two to help people understand that Dune Part 2 isn't Dune 2 the sequel but the literal second half of part 1.
 

Jazzy B.

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He's not in the films, you're wrong, and it's not my fault your media literacy is low.
:manny:

I've literally just explained to you how he is in the two movies :mjlol:

Paul is a superpowered/superior cac.

The Fremen are regular people, non cacs and oppressed by cac overlords for their resources.

"they ravage our lands in front of our eyes. Their cruelty to my people is all I have known." - Zendaya

"Our warriors couldn't free Arrakis from the Harkokenens" - Zendaya

This all changed because of outsider Paul. That's why Paul hasn't lost a single battle. That's why Paul is able to ride the biggest worm. That is why Paul is able to free the Fremen.

This cac came in as an OUTSIDER and did what NO FREMEN could do and you're here telling me this isn't a white savior :mjtf:

Cacs (Paul and his mother) coming into an enslaved non cac area (run by cacs), mastering the culture and then becoming holy figures which causes an emancipation that NEVER would have be achieved without their involvement.
 

Piff Perkins

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I've literally just explained to you how he is in the two movies :mjlol:

I misspoke lol, I meant to say he IS in the film. My mistake. My point is that the second film is almost entirely about him refraining from his destiny, knowing that it will lead to catastrophic violence for the universe, and then when he finally succumbs and becomes what he was meant to be...people are missing the point and calling him a savior when he's not. His ascent/descent to godhood even included dramatic, horror-esque music and people still missed the point.
 

Black Excellence

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The more I think of it, this reminds me of the flawed Prometheus. David had more complexity to his character in that movie than anything Denis put in this film.

I’m seeing dissertations of what the characters are intended to be but Denis wrote with ambiguity mixed with generic boy would be king/boy comes to save the people, leading to surface level representation. It’s some of the same issues Prometheus had, from “things would get answered in the next movie” to some people feeling like it’s dragging. Curious what he does with the 3rd movie.
 
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I've literally just explained to you how he is in the two movies :mjlol:
It is insane the mental gymnastics white people are doing to say this isn't a white savior film. We aren't even saying we don't LIKE the movie, we actually love it still for the most part, but saying "no, you don't understand the meaning" is REAL insulting.
 

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Scenes jump from one another with no transition, but there has been time lapses. First instance, Paul has to cross the dessert...so they show him being sent out and Chani watching him. Then it skips and Chani is with him, then skips again and they're back in the community. There's so many examples of that, and a lot of the setups are missing. Now if it's not important to show him learning to survive out there, there was no reason to show it to begin with...what to get a scene with no dialog between he & Chani?

Dune isn't actually that simple, which is why it was always deemed unfilmable or better as a series/mini-series.

To answer your other question about the book, the basis for it is entirely political. Overall, EVERYONE has an agenda. So, everyone is using their resources and alliances to gain positioning over the others. It's also favors intelligence over brute strength. "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." The world itself values intelligence, status and manipulation. Even in the fights and wars, there are reasons why certain weapons are never used. Everyone is playing chess, but everyone is on the board, so your pawn is a rook/king/knight in another's game, and a King/Queen in theirs. It is dense though, and wordy. To put in a modern comparison, it's Game of Thrones but if everyone was on the Limitless pill. The overall theme is pretty much to never trust the charismatic "leader" for they all serve themselves. There's also heavy criticism against putting everything into religion. While it does serve as a place of comfort and power, it's easily exploited. The Fremen are pretty much irrelevant to the story. If Leto hadn't died, they would still be used for the same purpose - an alliance to fortify Arrakis and control the most valued resource in the galaxy, and Leto was never on the board as "the chosen one." They're so irrelevant that no one cares about the rest of the planet.

Even with House Atreides, Leto was not married to Lady Jessica. She was his concubine, and he was not married for the sole reason to keep his options open to form alliances with other houses via marriage. In reality, you can figure he was never going to do so, but that was also an option. There are also instances of Lady Jessica having her own plans, using Leto and Paul, but going against the plans of the Bene Gesserit who gave her part of the plan in the first place. And take the "prophecy"; the Bene Gesserit started the prophecy and planted the seeds over generations/centuries until they could create their "Chosen One" with all of the traits they said in the prophecy, just so they had control over everything.

Oh ok, so ultimately the Bene Gesserit is the “dark side” that controls and influences everything.

Bene Gesserit is the “devil” or the bad guy in the story. And all politics stem from them and is inherently bad even if motives seem good

Everything stems from their self fulfilling prophecy. But what is the “prophecy” based on, their own imagination or literal interpretations of old rock drawing?

In the books is it all just old superstitions or the fremen or is it a real religion that the Bene Gesserit believe in?

Also In the book is Zendaya character the only one who isn’t religious and doesn’t believe in the Prophecy?

I feel like the next movie should be about her, but she also could just disappear into the desert and become irrelevant
 

CHICAGO

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It is insane the mental gymnastics white people are doing to say this isn't a white savior film. We aren't even saying we don't LIKE the movie, we actually love it still for the most part, but saying "no, you don't understand the meaning" is REAL insulting.

THE REASON I STEPPED AWAY
FROM THE WHITE SAVIOR ANGLE...

1. IN THE ACTUAL MOVIE THEY CONTINUOUSLY
POKED FUN AT THE CHOSEN ONE ANGLE.

2. YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE DUDE IS ON
DEMON TIME NOW AND ISNT A SAVIOR AT ALL.

3. HE SAID REPEATEDLY IF HE GOES SOUTH
MILLIONS OR BILLIONS WILL DIE
AND NOW HES EMBRACING THAT KNOWING
WHAT WARRING WITH THE HOUSES WILL LEAD TO.

HES CLEARLY NOT A HERO
AND THE AGENGA HE AND HIS MOMS HAVE
WAS LAID OUT VERY CLEARLY

:devil:
:evil:

 
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