Dune 2 - (March 1, 2024)

[Jazzy B.]

The white savior trope doesn’t typically involve the white savior adopting the entire culture, learning their language & customs and integrates so deeply into their society, Paul respects their ways and traditions.

It can.

See Avatar and the Last Samurai.

Jake Sully in Avatar didn't hate the Na'vi. He just wanted his legs back and undertook an infiltration mission to get the experience of walking again and then get his legs back in his human form.

He does bring fighting techniques he learned from the Bene Gesserit but the fremen are ferocious fighters and Paul barely survived 1 on 1 combat.

He immediately beat one of their best fighters in combat after being on the run in a terrain he's foreign too
.

There’s no reason to believe that the fremen wouldn’t eventually beat the Harkonnen’s, there were over a million fremen and the colonizers had no idea there were that many. Paul integrates so deeply into the fremen way of life that he feels more connected to it than his original culture. He doesn’t succeed because of inherent superiority, he’s fulfilling fremen prophecies that were planted by the bene gesserit, the path was set for him by others. Dune is a critique of blindly following a charismatic leader, the nature of power, authority, and intervention in foreign cultures. I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re factually wrong.

Paul is a superpowered/superior cac.

The Fremen are regular people, non cacs and oppressed by cac overlords for their resources.

"they ravage our lands in front of our eyes. Their cruelty to my people is all I have known." - Zendaya

"Our warriors couldn't free Arrakis from the Harkokenens" - Zendaya

This all changed because of outsider Paul. That's why Paul hasn't lost a single battle. That's why Paul is able to ride the biggest worm. That is why Paul is able to free the Fremen.

This cac came in as an OUTSIDER and did what NO FREMEN could do and you're here telling me this isn't a white savior

 

[Lootpack]

We had these exact conversations in the part 1 thread. People have been misinterpreting Dune since 1965 despite Herbert making it painfully obvious that Paul is not a good person or a savior. People don’t have room for nuance. Denis is French, not American and so is Timothee. We’re talking about an insanely distant future, the mere idea of white or black doesn’t even exist. Dune never explicitly defines the characters race or ethnicity but the Atreides home planet Caladan was described as Mediterranean so it is assumed they were Greek or European.

They are missing the point of the film if that’s their main takeaway from it. I thought it was obvious as hell even here that this is not your conventional hero story. Will be interesting to see how those same people spin it when (and not if) Messiah drops.

 

[PoorAndDangerous]

It can.

See Avatar and the Last Samurai.

Jake Sully in Avatar didn't hate the Na'vi. He just wanted his legs back and undertook an infiltration mission to get the experience of walking again and then get his legs back in his human form.



He immediately beat one of their best fighters in combat after being on the run in a terrain he's foreign too
.


Paul is a superpowered/superior cac.

The Fremen are regular people, non cacs and oppressed by cac overlords for their resources.

"they ravage our lands in front of our eyes. Their cruelty to my people is all I have known." - Zendaya

"Our warriors couldn't free Arrakis from the Harkokenens" - Zendaya

This all changed because of outsider Paul. That's why Paul hasn't lost a single battle. That's why Paul is able to ride the biggest worm. That is why Paul is able to free the Fremen.

This cac came in as an OUTSIDER and did what NO FREMEN could do and you're here telling me this isn't a white savior

At the time Chani said that it was true, it does not mean the fremen would never defeat the Harkonnen. He’s not ever described as Caucasian, it is irrelevant to the entire story, he is a messiah, and that’s more powerful than any race ethnicity or creed. Paul was extremely educated and studied the fremen and arrakis extensively, Paul is literally a product of millennia of selective breeding by the bene gesserit and was trained by one (his mother). It’s like being trained by a Jedi, why would he not be a more skilled fighter? The fremen don’t follow Paul because he’s “cac” they follow him because he fits the prophecies that the gesserit seeded the planet with for generations. I can’t tell if you’re trolling or just incapable of grasping this

 

[Poetical Poltergeist]

It can.

See Avatar and the Last Samurai.

Jake Sully in Avatar didn't hate the Na'vi. He just wanted his legs back and undertook an infiltration mission to get the experience of walking again and then get his legs back in his human form.



He immediately beat one of their best fighters in combat after being on the run in a terrain he's foreign too
.


Paul is a superpowered/superior cac.

The Fremen are regular people, non cacs and oppressed by cac overlords for their resources.

"they ravage our lands in front of our eyes. Their cruelty to my people is all I have known." - Zendaya

"Our warriors couldn't free Arrakis from the Harkokenens" - Zendaya

This all changed because of outsider Paul. That's why Paul hasn't lost a single battle. That's why Paul is able to ride the biggest worm. That is why Paul is able to free the Fremen.

This cac came in as an OUTSIDER and did what NO FREMEN could do and you're here telling me this isn't a white savior

" The biggest worm". That's the giveaway right there.

 

[DeeezNuts]

just saw this in IMAX.. joint was official

 

[Warren Peace]

Spoiler

"If you drink, you will die. If you drink, you may see."

The Jessica and Paul we knew are beyond gone. They're both something else now.

 

[Panther]

ehh this was just ok for me. 6.5/10. That 1st hour was DRAGGING

 

[CHICAGO]

"If you drink, you will die. If you drink, you may see."

The Jessica and Paul we knew are beyond gone. They're both something else now.

YEA THEYRE HARKONNENS NOW







​

 

[klutch2381]

Christopher Walken was miscast. There’s a part where’s he’s like, “maddddd?” And shyt sounds like Wedding Crashers or a SNL skit. As far as Paul being a white savior, I actually thought it was more of a commentary on how white people culturally appropriate resources, skills, language, etc. from marginalized groups under the guise of admiration and respect. Yet, when it suits them, they go back to their milquetoast white culture whenever it’s convenient. The one they always subconsciously thought was superior and they rationalize their return by whatever psychological conventions necessary (e.g., revenge, securing legacy, power, accumulating resources, familial pressure, etc.).

 

[jwinfield]

YEA THEYRE HARKONNENS NOW







​

Your grandmothers warned you of my coming, fear the moment.

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

The white savior trope doesn’t typically involve the white savior adopting the entire culture, learning their language & customs and integrates so deeply into their society, Paul respects their ways and traditions. He doesn’t view himself as culturally or morally superior. He does bring fighting techniques he learned from the Bene Gesserit but the fremen are ferocious fighters and Paul barely survived 1 on 1 combat. There’s no reason to believe that the fremen wouldn’t eventually beat the Harkonnen’s, there were over a million fremen and the colonizers had no idea there were that many. Paul integrates so deeply into the fremen way of life that he feels more connected to it than his original culture. He doesn’t succeed because of inherent superiority, he’s fulfilling fremen prophecies that were planted by the bene gesserit, the path was set for him by others. Dune is a critique of blindly following a charismatic leader, the nature of power, authority, and intervention in foreign cultures. I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re factually wrong.

They are missing the point of the film if that’s their main takeaway from it. I thought it was obvious as hell even here that this is not your conventional hero story. Will be interesting to see how those same people spin it when (and not if) Messiah drops.

@Jazzy B.


"The difference between a hero and an anti hero is where you stop the story"

 

[shonuff]

It can.

See Avatar and the Last Samurai.

Jake Sully in Avatar didn't hate the Na'vi. He just wanted his legs back and undertook an infiltration mission to get the experience of walking again and then get his legs back in his human form.



He immediately beat one of their best fighters in combat after being on the run in a terrain he's foreign too
.


Paul is a superpowered/superior cac.

The Fremen are regular people, non cacs and oppressed by cac overlords for their resources.

"they ravage our lands in front of our eyes. Their cruelty to my people is all I have known." - Zendaya

"Our warriors couldn't free Arrakis from the Harkokenens" - Zendaya

This all changed because of outsider Paul. That's why Paul hasn't lost a single battle. That's why Paul is able to ride the biggest worm. That is why Paul is able to free the Fremen.

This cac came in as an OUTSIDER and did what NO FREMEN could do and you're here telling me this isn't a white savior

uhh bruh
the DIRECTOR of THIS movie made the people of the planet DUNE "brown" ....

the people of the planet DUNE in the books are no different than all other people in that universe - they are ( appearance wise) ALL the same the people of DUNE are as " white" as Paul .... this movie is an interation where the Director put his own spin on it . The movie from 1984 has Paul learning the ways and traditions of the Freeman who are ...wait for it .... WHITE. its all white actors in that movie - in the movie that was suppsed to get made 20 years before that it was ALL white actors to play the parts.

so how is a white savior what this movie is about when in its construction and every iteration until this one only and always had "white" people?

the stuff you are focusing the story on is already misguided because you are focusing on what you are seeing on the screen and bringing your own biases and current day issues and projecting it onto the movie to declare what the story is .....when whats on the screen is really the directors vision about how the story should APPEAR.....

The book DUNE never had black people or people described as BEING black race and its role wasnt the focus of the story - in fact the author makes a point of saying he used foreign names and concepts that his audience ( americans ) would not be comfortable understanding to emphasize how NOT like the world was in his story. He knew readers at that time did not know anything about the use of arabic names or jewish concepts of superbeings / messiahs - the story he wrote is about leadership and the failure of people to recognize the need for change and to be wary of the exercise of power.

oh and again - lets make it aboundantly clear - DUNE isnt "enslaved" this is the second part of your erroneous characterization

- the whole point is that the people that come to DUNE just consider the planet a rare resource ....but a resource. Nonetheless, the actual people of DUNE live their own lives and ONLY stay on the planet - they dont go anywhere and they dont WANT to go anywhere. They only fight the Harkonnens because the Harkonnens seek them out to kill them to make sure they control the areas that they want to mine spice. the whole rest of an entire planet isnt used or explored at all by anyone from off the planet and there is no desire by anyone to do so.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Paul is a cac outsider who is superior to EVERY Fremen (non cacs), he masters their ways in record time and emancipates them from the oppressive cac ruling overlords that never would have been achieved without him and his superiority.

It's Paul who is the best fighter, Paul with the powers, Paul who comes up with the plans. Paul who becomes the leader Paul liberates the Fremen.

White Savior 101.

It is no different to Jake Sully in Avatar.




The biggest issue I had is that the movie despite all the hype is forgettable. The visuals are good but that’s it. Everything else was flat .

While watching it I just kept thinking that another director would have made all this epic, grandiose and iconic. And also would have had the foresight to cast better actors to elevate a paper thin script. Because the actor who plays Paul isn't good enough for the role. The same with Zendaya.

There’s action with scope but at the same time it felt dull and subdued and none of it was memorable. If I had to compare it another movie it would be Dunkirk. Do you remember anything from it, any line or any of the characters? NOPE. It will be the same with this movie in a year.

This movie is being protected by the popularity of the two main actors, Zendaya and the actor who plays Paul. If not for their popularity it would be getting trashed.

This is categorically not true and the novel was literally written to dismantle the white savior trope.

Paul is genetically and physically designed to be a superior fighter to just about anyone he comes across due to the weirding way. He's genetically determined to be the chosen one. And his mother's secret order has spent large amounts of time conditioning the people of the world to recognize him as a savior. Once the shyt hits the fan and he reaches the highest power, everything goes to hell (literally) for the universe. Herbert's entire point was that charismatic leaders are dangerous and lead mankind to ruin.

 

[WIA20XX]

Anyone here familiar with Death of the Author? (c) Roland Barthes?

 

[nieman]

He was banking on Paul being dead.

It's an obvious advantage, yes, but moving them to Arrakis was a double-whammy. Leto can't pass up the opportunity to rule over Dune because it'd make his house enormously wealthy. Additionally, making the Harkonnens pay for the entire military operation to wipe out the Atreides essentially bankrupted them. It honestly was a brilliant decision [from someone that didn't understand the Bene Gesserit].

The problem I can't wrap my head around, is that Paul wasn't supposed to die. It was always frowned upon to wipe out an entire bloodline. If they found out he was behind it, all of the other houses would turn on him. And Baron "promised" he wouldn't harm Paul and Jessica. So the emperor either had a plan for Paul, or he didn't fully work through all of the contingencies. What's crazier is the entire galaxy knew Paul was trained by the best fighters and strategists, the reputation of the staff of House Atreides, so even with the Bene Geserit abilities being hidden, you still had to know he was capable.

I'm actually on my first reread in about 8 yrs.