Essential Dragonball Super? New series set after Majin Buu saga

[FunkDoc1112]

wow, the age old topic of whether goku could have beaten cell or not is back i see....well, the correct answer is: yes...goku could have beaten cell....the manga shows this, and the tv show, which followed the manga closely, showed this....just look at the manga/show again...when he starts powering up and goes past ss1, shaking everything/scaring everyone with his power, he stops, smiles, and says lets go to gohan....he never finishes powering up all the way, but it's hinted at that he could reach ss2.....that's the reason he knew about ss2 in the first place, and that gohan could reach it.....now, the reason he didnt go all the way nor beat cell was cause the creator didnt want him to...he's said this in interviews before: he wanted gohan to be the face of z going forward after the cell saga, that's why he had gohan do it...but fans complained that they wanted goku to be the face of z, changing his plans.....hence the reason goku is the one always saving the day after the cell saga, the reason gohan stopped training/getting stronger, etc....z was supposed to be the gohan story, the same way dragon ball was the goku story...

First up, he wasn't "powering up..." he was attempting to power up but he alreayd knew it wasn't gonna work. He was visibly struggling against Cell and his last few attacks were shaky and desperate, the type of shyt Vegeta does when shyt gets tough. He was confident despite Cell's clear superiroty because he knew Gohan would get it done. He fought Cell so Gohan could see how he fought, which Piccolo correctly deduced.

Second of all, that whole shyt about Toriyama getting pressured by fans to bring Goku back is false. it's a rumor that's been around so long people think it's true even though he's never actually said it, just like the "DBZ was supposed to end at the Frieza saga" myth. What he DID say was that he decided that ultimately, Gohan wasn't suited as the main character, and so he chose to bring Goku back. Not the fans.

As for the USSJ stuff...I think in theory, USSSJ is almost, if not just as powerful as SSJ2...but it's just a raw transformation with drawbacks, essentially flexing your muscles. Gohan was the only one who figured out how to actually ascend and reach that power without the loss of speed and massive energy strain.

 

[twan83]

Lol Goku did know how to have Gohan turn SSJ2. He explains it to him in the time chamber and he also explains it to Piccolo during Gohan's fight with Cell. But its up to Gohan to make the transformation and he obviously couldn't push himself to do it until 16 gave that speech.

As far as Goku telling Gohan he was as strong as he was, I think he was just gassing Gohan up and telling him what he needed to hear so he wouldn't be afraid to fight cell. We've seen Goku give it his all before and that wasn't quite it.

When he volunteered Gohan to fight he said he wouldn't be doing this if he didn't know Gohan could win. He wanted Gohan to fight instead of himself and the only reason he fought with Cell for as long as he did was so that Gohan could see how Cell fights.

There's even a point when Piccolo talks some sense into Goku and Goku panics and yells at Krillin for a Sensu Bean but Cells takes the bag of beans before he could get one.

Goku took a gamble and it eventually payed off.

But that instant transmission Kamehameha was proof enough that Goku could have beaten cell.

U bugging breh
He didn't know how he was surprised at the glimpse of gohan hidden power to ssj2 and said it passed his during training which gave him the idea only gohan could beat cell

Senzu bean was cuz piccolo was saying sense to him that gohan is the strongest fighter out of them all but isn't blood thirst for fighting like goku he is still a child

That instant shyt don't work if u can't kill him in 1 shot which he didn't and it drains goku way more which he said it did cuz of it

Quit making stuff up breh with false things

 

[twan83]

@Airtrack360


This is the z version translated



Here is the kai version translated


Both say gohan surpassed goku with kai more in detail

 

[lutha]

First up, he wasn't "powering up..." he was attempting to power up but he alreayd knew it wasn't gonna work. He was visibly struggling against Cell and his last few attacks were shaky and desperate, the type of shyt Vegeta does when shyt gets tough. He was confident despite Cell's clear superiroty because he knew Gohan would get it done. He fought Cell so Gohan could see how he fought, which Piccolo correctly deduced.

Second of all, that whole shyt about Toriyama getting pressured by fans to bring Goku back is false. it's a rumor that's been around so long people think it's true even though he's never actually said it, just like the "DBZ was supposed to end at the Frieza saga" myth. What he DID say was that he decided that ultimately, Gohan wasn't suited as the main character, and so he chose to bring Goku back. Not the fans.

i've had this discussion plenty of times on here, and have posted shyt on here to back up what i'm talking about....you talking about the powering up against cell, i wasnt....the powering up i'm talking wasnt with cell, it was at the lookout....he powers up when they stop by the lookout, and he has ole boy there gauge his power....but before he reaches powering up fully, he stops...just read the manga, and you'll see what i'm talking about....hell, even that scene is in the show...that is the scene that hints he couldve reached ss2, hence how he knew about it, and how he had faith gohan could reach it with his 'unlocked potential'....

as for your second part: that is not true....there are interviews with him saying it, which i've posted on here as well...cause HE DID say it....the only part he didnt say was actually blame it on the fans for the change, but in the interview where he talks about making the change, he implies it was the fans that forced it...cause the interviewer asked him straight up about it, and he beat around the bush and just said some shyt like 'it was decided best that goku be the face'...

i know you gonna doubt me, but just either read the manga or go back and look at the show...it clearly shows what i'm talking about....the whole cell saga is goku is building up gohan to take over as the savior of earth....from what they had him saying, to how they had him acting, etc., hell, even the whole 'gohan's untapped potential' shyt is part of it....he was passing the reigns to gohan like the creator wanted.....the cell saga ends with gohan taking that mantle as the new savior....but then, all of a sudden, all that shyt completely changes during the filler episodes and in the next arc....all of a sudden, gohan stops training/trying to get stronger even though he accepted the role as the new savior of earth, and goku is shown doing that...doing it so much to the point, he's taken the mantle back as savior, even though he's dead...and the only reason we got was cause 'chi chi wanted him to be a scholar' lol....it's not a coincidence that's the same time the fans complained about gohan taking over and wanting goku back....if you cant see how his plans were changed, and not cause he wanted to, it's cause you dont want to see it....

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Pretty sure I've read the manga version of the cell Games fight more often then I've watched the anime version. During the scene where he powers up for Korin, he explictly says he's only going up to 50%..and Korin says, doubling what power he saw there, Cell would still whoop his ass. And Goku's reaction is to play it cool, because he knew Gohan had him covered. And then during the fight with cell, while everyone is like " OMFG Goku is so powerful" Gohan's sitting there like " That's it?"

We know how Goku is by now. If he really felt he could defeat Cell, he would've done it. Dude went all out and ewas struggling, then fought like a nikka who knew he was gonna lose. Like I said, he wasn't "powering up even more," He alreayd knew he was fukked and out of energy and put a stop to it.

Anyway...

From Daizenshuu 2:

"

Interviewer: And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?

Akira Toriyama: I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part."

 

[twan83]

i've had this discussion plenty of times on here, and have posted shyt on here to back up what i'm talking about....you talking about the powering up against cell, i wasnt....the powering up i'm talking wasnt with cell, it was at the lookout....he powers up when they stop by the lookout, and he has ole boy there gauge his power....but before he reaches powering up fully, he stops...just read the manga, and you'll see what i'm talking about....hell, even that scene is in the show...that is the scene that hints he couldve reached ss2, hence how he knew about it, and how he had faith gohan could reach it with his 'unlocked potential'....

as for your second part: that is not true....there are interviews with him saying it, which i've posted on here as well...cause HE DID say it....the only part he didnt say was actually blame it on the fans for the change, but in the interview where he talks about making the change, he implies it was the fans that forced it...cause the interviewer asked him straight up about it, and he beat around the bush and just said some shyt like 'it was decided best that goku be the face'...

i know you gonna doubt me, but just either read the manga or go back and look at the show...it clearly shows what i'm talking about....the whole cell saga is goku is building up gohan to take over as the savior of earth....from what they had him saying, to how they had him acting, etc., hell, even the whole 'gohan's untapped potential' shyt is part of it....he was passing the reigns to gohan like the creator wanted.....the cell saga ends with gohan taking that mantle as the new savior....but then, all of a sudden, all that shyt completely changes during the filler episodes and in the next arc....all of a sudden, gohan stops training/trying to get stronger even though he accepted the role as the new savior of earth, and goku is shown doing that...doing it so much to the point, he's taken the mantle back as savior, even though he's dead...and the only reason we got was cause 'chi chi wanted him to be a scholar' lol....it's not a coincidence that's the same time the fans complained about gohan taking over and wanting goku back....if you cant see how his plans were changed, and not cause he wanted to, it's cause you dont want to see it....

Wrong he powered up to gauge his to cell and found out wasn't enough only did half of his ki and Karin still said weaker than cell


Dragon Ball 391 - Read Dragon Ball 391 Online - Page 11
Dragon Ball 391 - Read Dragon Ball 391 Online - Page 12

 

[lutha]

Pretty sure I've read the manga version of the cell Games fight more often then I've watched the anime version. Anyway...

From Daizenshuu 2:

"

Interviewer: And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?

Akira Toriyama: I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part."

think you need to go read it again, and you'll see what i'm talking about

 

[lutha]

Wrong he powered up to gauge his to cell and found out wasn't enough only did half of his ki and Karin still said weaker than cell


Dragon Ball 391 - Read Dragon Ball 391 Online - Page 11
Dragon Ball 391 - Read Dragon Ball 391 Online - Page 12

glad you posted this cause it proves my point.....read the page before the one you linked, page 10....he says he only powered up half way and that's what he was gauged on.....so if he only powered up half way, and was only a lil weaker than cell, who do you think is stronger if he powers up the whole way?...

 

[FunkDoc1112]

think you need to go read it again, and you'll see what i'm talking about

I think you need to read it again, because you forgot the part where Goku speficially says he'll power up to about 50%, and Korin says that doubling that, Cell would still whoop his ass. Or how badly he was struggling after Cell regenerated, to the point where he was blast spamming like Vegeta.,

You keep pulling this "Read the manga" card...the anime doesn't leave out anything from the manga, just embellishes stuff a tad more in spots. I know every single scene you're referring to, and my point still stands.

 

[ORDER_66]

put it on my wish list...

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

 

[twan83]

glad you posted this cause it proves my point.....read the page before the one you linked, page 10....he says he only powered up half way and that's what he was gauged on.....so if he only powered up half way, and was only a lil weaker than cell, who do you think is stronger if he powers up the whole way?...

Think bout what u said he powered up half way and made a estimate if he powered up all the way
He doesn't even know cell power level breh so he doing same thing meaning cell still superior and that's not including when he go full power against gohan when he don't against goku

 

[lutha]

I think you need to read it again, because you forgot the part where Goku speficially says he'll power up to about 50%, and Korin says that doubling that, Cell would still whoop his ass. Or how badly he was struggling after Cell regenerated, to the point where he was blast spamming like Vegeta.,

the cat @twan83 linked it, you can read it yourself....he powers up half way, ole boy says cell is a still a lil stronger...he didnt say anything about 'doubling that', he was only going off what goku showed him right then and there.....so, like i asked twan: if goku only powered up half way and cell was only a lil stronger, who do you think is stronger if goku powers the whole way?....

 

[Airtrack360]

U bugging breh
He didn't know how he was surprised at the glimpse of gohan hidden power to ssj2 and said it passed his during training which gave him the idea only gohan could beat cell

Senzu bean was cuz piccolo was saying sense to him that gohan is the strongest fighter out of them all but isn't blood thirst for fighting like goku he is still a child

That instant shyt don't work if u can't kill him in 1 shot which he didn't and it drains goku way more which he said it did cuz of it

Quit making stuff up breh with false things

1. Gokus talking about SSJ2 Gohan which is obviously stronger than Goku's regular SSJ.
2. Piccolo acknowledges that Gohan has hidden power, but this plan to unlock it isn't working. Goku called for the sensu bean because he was about to step in and help but cell took them before he could.
3. The instant Kamehameha showed that Goku had the ability and power to defeat cell. Nobody knew Cell would be able to regenerate his full torso like that. Not even cell until it happened.

I haven't said 1 false thing.

But like I said Goku was referring to SSJ2 Gohan about being stronger. And even so my main statement was Goku could have beaten Cell if he wanted to be the one to do it. Obviously not the last iteration after the zenkai boost and what not but the one he fought originally.

 

[twan83]

Dragon Ball 391 - Read Dragon Ball 391 Online - Page 6

Can only predict didn't see his power but saw more or felt more from goku breh let that sink in