Essential Dragonball Super? New series set after Majin Buu saga

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The Manga has surprisingly been more detailed in explaining things so we might get more explanation or clarity on the fights Goku has vs. his peers.

If Goku is just gassing up everyone to think they're stronger and more clever than they actually are thsn that's fine but it doesn't seem to be playing out that way or at least it's very hard to tell if it is.

He wasnt playing with 17; 17 had the boy struggling out there while he didnt even break a sweat have a scratch or gasp nor appeared to be breathing hard

 

[Airtrack360]

He wasnt playing with 17; 17 had the boy struggling out there while he didnt even break a sweat have a scratch or gasp nor appeared to be breathing hard

Androids don't get tired. This was explained in the fight between piccolo and 17. They were basically evenly match but 17 pointed out that Piccolo couldn't keep this up forever be he can.

Edit: it's the same reason why 17 being so strong doesn't make sense. The androids are powered like batteries. They're power was static. They can't get any stronger or weaker.

So 17 getting stronger when he can't even get weaker or get tired makes no sense.

 

[Malik1time]

Androids don't get tired. This was explained in the fight between piccolo and 17. They were basically evenly match but 17 pointed out that Piccolo couldn't keep this up forever be he can.

Edit: it's the same reason why 17 being so strong doesn't make sense. The androids are powered like batteries. They're power was static. They can't get any stronger or weaker.

So 17 getting stronger when he can't even get weaker or get tired makes no sense.

 

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Androids don't get tired. This was explained in the fight between piccolo and 17. They were basically evenly match but 17 pointed out that Piccolo couldn't keep this up forever be he can.

Edit: it's the same reason why 17 being so strong doesn't make sense. The androids are powered like batteries. They're power was static. They can't get any stronger or weaker.

So 17 getting stronger when he can't even get weaker or get tired makes no sense.

The Androids can get stronger according to Toriyama because they are human based. They just increase at a regular rate unlike the expedited rate like Saiyans do.


That said, if it's been 10+ years since the Cell Games and 17 has been staying in the gym regularly, its not outlandish to think he could have gotten much stronger, he's gotta be somewhere between SSJ2 or SSJ3 level and remember an "angry" SSJ2 Vegeta surprised Beerus and gave him some trouble in the BotG movie. I don't think 17 is stronger than SSB, especially when it mixes with Kaioken but him hovering around the SSJ2-3 power range is plausible and would probably put him somewhere between the 5th to 3rd strongest on the team especially considering they can keep that level of output going if he doesn't get tired. .

 

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Androids don't get tired. This was explained in the fight between piccolo and 17. They were basically evenly match but 17 pointed out that Piccolo couldn't keep this up forever be he can.

Edit: it's the same reason why 17 being so strong doesn't make sense. The androids are powered like batteries. They're power was static. They can't get any stronger or weaker.

So 17 getting stronger when he can't even get weaker or get tired makes no sense.

when was this ever stated receipts, it was always implied that the androids could get stronger, hell they even made 16 a complete robot stronger, its no stretch that 17 and 18 could get stronger by training

 

[Skip b]

The Androids can get stronger according to Toriyama because they are human based. They just increase at a regular rate unlike the expedited rate like Saiyans do.


That said, if it's been 10+ years since the Cell Games and 17 has been staying in the gym regularly, its not outlandish to think he could have gotten much stronger, he's gotta be somewhere between SSJ2 or SSJ3 level and remember an "angry" SSJ2 Vegeta surprised Beerus and gave him some trouble in the BotG movie. I don't think 17 is stronger than SSB, especially when it mixes with Kaioken but him hovering around the SSJ2-3 power range is plausible and would probably put him somewhere between the 5th to 3rd strongest on the team especially considering they can keep that level of output going if he doesn't get tired. .

Breh 17 is way stronger than Goku ss3 or Vegata SS2 max power, did you not see him give Goku them hands, and eat a SSB kamehameha like


Off the Eye test he gives Golden Frieza that work; plus he has yet to go full power; he has to be somewhere around Blacks power level and we have yet to see if Goku can beat black by himself(unlike Vegeta), leaving the question 17 power in comparison to Goku in the air....I think thats great writing rather than something to bytch about

 

[Airtrack360]

The Androids can get stronger according to Toriyama because they are human based. They just increase at a regular rate unlike the expedited rate like Saiyans do.


That said, if it's been 10+ years since the Cell Games and 17 has been staying in the gym regularly, its not outlandish to think he could have gotten much stronger, he's gotta be somewhere between SSJ2 or SSJ3 level and remember an "angry" SSJ2 Vegeta surprised Beerus and gave him some trouble in the BotG movie. I don't think 17 is stronger than SSB, especially when it mixes with Kaioken but him hovering around the SSJ2-3 power range is plausible and would probably put him somewhere between the 5th to 3rd strongest on the team especially considering they can keep that level of output going if he doesn't get tired. .

From a page or two earlier.

^This!

People don't understand. Goku said himself that he didn't even intend on going Blue. 17 FORCED Goku to go Blue. So yeah I understand Goku was holding back but the fact that 17 forced him to go to Blue speaks volumes to 17s power increase alone which is borderline unbelievable.

The Vegeta Vs. Cabba fight was the perfect example on how the fight between 17 and Goku should have went. If Goku would have gone SSJ3 and 17 was still able to keep up then that would be significant and not be totally out of reach. It would be believable if 17 got strong enough to go toe to toe with SSJ3. Then Goku would go Blue and show just how far "he's" come and end the fight.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was 17 who stopped the fight and it wasn't because he was getting overwhelmed. I think it was just because he saw enough.

The issue is that Blue should be the "serious" transformation. In Dragonball Z characters rarely trained or even spared in their final form.

Vegeta uses Blue the way its suppose to be used and that makes sense. When he 1 hit KO'd Cabba, when he beat the shyt out of Future Trunks when he was training him.

I don't really care about power levels but Dragonball Z and Super and been all about transformations and when transformations start to lose meaning and significance the show suffers as a whole.

 

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Breh 17 is way stronger than Goku ss3 or Vegata SS2 max power, did you not see him give Goku them hands, and eat a SSB kamehameha like


Off the Eye test he gives Golden Frieza that work; plus he has yet to go full power; he has to be somewhere unds Blacks power level and we have yet to see if Goku can beat black by himself(unlike Vegeta), leaving the question 17 power in comparison to Goku in the air....I think thats great writing rather than something to bytch about

It was a sparring session, bruh. What happens in the gym isn't a tell of what would truly happen when its real.


17 held his own tho, which is dope. I don't know where he fits in the power hierarchy but having more viable contenders in Universe 7 is what the series needed.

 

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^This!

People don't understand. Goku said himself that he didn't even intend on going Blue. 17 FORCED Goku to go Blue. So yeah I understand Goku was holding back but the fact that 17 forced him to go to Blue speaks volumes to 17s power increase alone which is borderline unbelievable.

The Vegeta Vs. Cabba fight was the perfect example on how the fight between 17 and Goku should have went. If Goku would have gone SSJ3 and 17 was still able to keep up then that would be significant and not be totally out of reach. It would be believable if 17 got strong enough to go toe to toe with SSJ3. Then Goku would go Blue and show just how far "he's" come and end the fight.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was 17 who stopped the fight and it wasn't because he was getting overwhelmed. I think it was just because he saw enough.

The issue is that Blue should be the "serious" transformation. In Dragonball Z characters rarely trained or even spared in their final form.

Vegeta uses Blue the way its suppose to be used and that makes sense. When he 1 hit KO'd Cabba, when he beat the shyt out of Future Trunks when he was training him.

I don't really care about power levels but Dragonball Z and Super and been all about transformations and when transformations start to lose meaning and significance the show suffers as a whole.

He knew they would destroy the island and world if they continued breh, 17 aint even break a sweat unlike CACarot

Like Dende said Goku should be terrified to have someone as strong as 17 as a enemy; that means 17 is at God levels power wise and is able to murk Goku if Goku is playing around or caught slipping.

 

[Airtrack360]

when was this ever stated receipts, it was always implied that the androids could get stronger, hell they even made 16 a complete robot stronger, its no stretch that 17 and 18 could get stronger by training

When was it ever implied that androids could get stronger? 16 didn't get stronger, he was built stronger from the very beginning.

 

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It was a sparring session, bruh. What happens in the gym isn't a tell of what would truly happen when its real.


17 held his own tho, which is dope. I don't know where he fits in the power hierarchy but having more viable contenders in Universe 7 is what the series needed.

Sparring yet he forced Goku to go Blue; even Super Buu couldnt do that, Super buu couldnt even force Goku to go SS.......17 simply is at a beastly at this point

 

[Airtrack360]

He knew they would destroy the island and world if they continued breh, 17 aint even break a sweat unlike CACarot

Like Dende said Goku should be terrified to have someone as strong as 17 as a enemy; that means 17 is at God levels power wise and is able to murk Goku is Goku is playing around or caught slipping.

The issue is the fact of WHY 17 is he so strong? It literally makes no sense how he became leaps and bounds stronger than before from just chilling on a island. I have no issue with 17 being as strong as he is but they've done a piss poor job at even slightly justifying the power increase.

 

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When was it ever implied that androids could get stronger? 16 didn't get stronger, he was built stronger from the very beginning.

They are human, why cant they get stronger, where was it ever implied all that andriods cant get stronger and they like battery powered all the bullshyt yall spewing

 

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The issue is the fact of WHY 17 is he so strong? It literally makes no sense how he became leaps and bounds stronger than before from just chilling on a island. I have no issue with 17 being as strong as he is but they've done a piss poor job at even slightly justifying the power increase.

Decades passed since the android arch breh, you think he wasn't sensing Majin Buu and all the fukkery on earth and thinking why dont I train; plus his energy source is unlimited, given so Androids should be able to push themselves to the limit like none other.....

 

[Airtrack360]

They are human, why cant they get stronger, where was it ever implied all that andriods cant get stronger and they like battery powered all the bullshyt yall spewing

Well looking at it logically, usually something that can't get tired or weaker doesn't get stronger because there's no real way for it to push itself.
So it seemed like the androids strength was artificial. Meaning that the human part wasn't strong but the robot part of them was which is what gave them so much power. They can't gather ki and the don't charge up like other human characters do so its very confusing on how they get "stronger"
In the beginning of the Android Saga. I think Future Trunks and even Dr. Gero kind of touches on it briefly but I'll admit it is kind of blurred on their capabilities.